Is an 8" jointer enough?

[Steven Wayne]

I have a Minimax sliding table saw on order, so I'm only concerned with face jointing. I have some rough sawn lumber on hand that's wider than 8" and it got me questioning my plan up to this point - Byrd cutterhead in my green era Powermatic 8" jointer. Machine is in good condition, but will either need a single phase motor or a VFD.. Well.. Those two things add up quite a bit.. So, I'm questioning this plan before I spend the money on the old 8". Maybe I should be putting those funds toward a wider machine?

What say you guys? Thanks in advance!

[Neil Gaskin]

The real answer I believe depends on how and what you work. With that said we bought an 8 in powermatic HH last year and I've caught myself at least a hand full of time wishing for more width. If I could go back I'd at least go 12". So if it fits the budget go for it. Seldom do we think. " man that I've got too much machine"

[eugene thomas]

if your primary use for the jointer will be face jointing would get least 12" jointer. in end you will want to replace the 8" jointer anyway.

[Cary Falk]

If you are already thinking about it I would definitely do it before you purchase the Byrd. I jumped up to an 8" when I wanted a Byrd. I am a hobbyist so an 8" works fine for the majority of my needs.

[Robert Engel]

I have an 8" wish I had a 12 but going from 8 to 12 basically triples the price of a jointer not in the budget for most hobbyists.

I envy you if you have finances to do that, then do it.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I'm in the same boat. I have a powermatic 60hh (8") and wish I had bigger at times. The next jump up would have cost waaaaaay too much for a hobbyist and I didn't want a combo machine. For the most part, I'm happy with my 8" jointer and just make due with what I have. I plan my work around it and rip down boards wider than 8". You can also make a planer sled if you decide you want to joint wider boards than your jointer can handle. Just too much work for me and ripping down boards work just fine.

[David Kumm]

336574 Here is a 12" oliver. 96" tables, guard that swings out of the way so you can joint a 24" board. Would need a vfd to run but old jointers are a very good option in the 12" size and the tables are ground with more precision than most new. Dave

[Steven Wayne]

I see Crescent (and other brand) 12" three leg jointers for sale from time to time in the < $2k price range. That is what got me thinking putting money into the old 8" may not be the best long term choice. I have an older (Taiwan) Jet four post 20" planer with a Shelix head.

[pat warner]

In my view, wide sticks are full of growth stress and should be ripped (bandsawn) down to a manageable size before jointing.
If the glue line is the issue, re-assembly as ripped, usually makes the joint invisible on the face.
Moreover, do you have the strength to manage an 8-12" wide stick?
A 6-8/4 10" x 8' stick can weigh 35+ pounds. Can you hold a stick down on the table, end to end, with enough control to flatten it?
And if you can, how much of it is left?

[David Kumm]

I have jointers in every size up to and including 24". 16" is favorite with 12" as second choice. When I buy good kiln dried hardwood it has always got boards wider than 8" and I've yet to feel the need to rip and reglue. For paint grade work I buy maple glueups that range from 14-24" wide. Saves a huge amount of time, especially when making a lot of drawers and doors. Dave

[John Lanciani]

The only regret that I have with my 16" J/P is that it isn't 20" wide. No ripping, no planer sleds, no workarounds. If you have the space and the $$ you will never regret getting the widest possible jointer that you can.

[John TenEyck]

Personally, I would not throw any money at an 8" jointer when I could find a used machine one for not all that much. I recently bought a MiniMax FS35 (14") combo machine for a little over $2000. I had a 10" Inca and the MiniMax looked like an aircraft carrier to me when I first got it into my shop. You know what? It's not too big. Lots of small pro shops make due with an 8" jointer, but most of them don't use wide lumber. If you have any desire to make cabinets, etc. with wide stock, go big. Or just stick with what you have, w/o the Byrd head. IMHO, there is much less compelling reason to put a spiral head on a jointer than a combo machine or planer. And new is nice, but the best value is in used equipment. If I hadn't found the used MiniMax I'd still be using my Inca (which I also bought used). As mentioned above, you can find used Olivers, Crescents, etc. in the 12" range for less than $1000. Even if you put another $1000 into it you have a machine that will last another lifetime, and you'll be able to sell it for about what you paid for it if you choose to.

As for not being able to handle large stock - it hasn't been a problem for me and I'm not a big or strong guy. Wide jointers have pretty long tables. I've jointed 7' boards 12" wide on my MiniMax with no trouble. Sure, they are heavy getting them on and off the tables, but while you are pushing it over the cutterhead it takes no real effort; far less than it took for me to joint a 10" board on my short bed Inca.

John

[Charles Taylor]

As mentioned above, you can find used Olivers, Crescents, etc. in the 12" range for less than $1000. Even if you put another $1000 into it you have a machine that will last another lifetime, and you'll be able to sell it for about what you paid for it if you choose to.


+1. It may take some patience and persistence to find one, but it's worthwhile.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I rarely buy or use boards wider than 8". That said, I use my 12" MM combo all the time. Changed out to Byrd Helical Head and never going back.

[Ben Rivel]

My thinking has been that 12" is as narrow as Id go for a jointer and/or planer, and helical head was a must.

[Steven Wayne]

The only >8" for sale in my general region is a Rockwell/Crescent for $2500 and a Northfield for $8k.. The Crescent is halfway to a Minimax FS30. I'm not in love with the idea of a combo because I have a nice 20" planer..

I watch craigslist often and have never seen a large jointer for under a grand..

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I watch craigslist often and have never seen a large jointer for under a grand..

Around here, they are typically in the $2500-3500 range.
I've seen one for around $1200 once.

Used 8" jointers (Powermatic and DJ-20's) go for $800-$1000 here

[Garth Almgren]

The only >8" for sale in my general region is a Rockwell/Crescent for $2500 and a Northfield for $8k.. The Crescent is halfway to a Minimax FS30.
That sounds very similar to the Seattle Craigslist right now... A Rockwell/Crescent 12" for $2700, a Yates American 20" for $8000, and a "big" Crescent for "make an offer". :rolleyes:

[Steven Wayne]

Around here, they are typically in the $2500-3500 range.
I've seen one for around $1200 once.

Used 8" jointers (Powermatic and DJ-20's) go for $800-$1000 here

Gerry, that is in line with what I see in the Pacific Northwest.

[Mike Cutler]

I've been getting by with a 6" Jet, standard knives, for quite a few years, and I've done some fair sized projects with it. So yeah, you can get by with an 8" and do great work. In the end it still comes down to the hand feeding the material.
Waiting in the wings is a 16" I'm getting ready to restore. I ran one board over it just to make sure the babbitt bearings weren't blown, and to experience a square cutter head. I know that once this beast is up and running, the 6" is going away.

[Steven Wayne]

That sounds very similar to the Seattle Craigslist right now... A Rockwell/Crescent 12" for $2700, a Yates American 20" for $8000, and a "big" Crescent for "make an offer". :rolleyes:

It is Seattle Craigslist. Good eye!

[eugene thomas]

Most of older jointers are 3 phase.. I bought 16" cresent jointer for $800 and was running but getting to single phase and a quick change blade set up and was at $2500.,

[bob cohen]

if space or money were not an issue I would have an aircraft sized jointer, but a good 8" jointer is all anybody really needs. Remove your guard and rabbeting attachment and you can easily joint boards of 12" or more; just double stick tape something flat (is use 3/4 ply) to the jointed part, flip over and run through you planer, essentially using your planer as a jointer. Anyone who ever said that your jointer and planer have to be the same size, isn't thinking very creatively. For boards wider that 12 inches (and I use a lot in my work, I will either use a rounder sled or of the board is reasonably flat a planer to get one flat surface. My advice, get yourself a quality 8 inch jointer, and spend the money saved on something else! One last thing, the difference in quality between most 6 and 8 inch jointers is huge. I haven't notice any improved quality in going from 8 to 12 inch jointers. A lot of serious woodworkers opt for 8 inch jointers.

[Andrew Hughes]

I paid 2500 for my Oliver 166. In 1962 my machine was purchased buy long beach Aviation for 1562.00 dollars.
Now that we have the Internet the value of older machines are being exposed.
Theres maybe two places on the tables that I can slip a .002 feeler gauge under a precision straight edge.
Buying used gives you the advantage of inspecting the machine before its in your shop.
Ok that's all from me.

[Al Launier]

How often would you intend, or need to face joint boards wider than 8"? Also, do your projects require boards that wide or would it be acceptable to use panels made up of narrower boards with alternating grain to minimize warpage?

Perhaps a planer sled could do what you want at considerably less cost & less space requirements.

Just a thought that you most likely have already thought of.

[Quinn McCarthy]

I have a delta Dj20. I really love it . I have a 15" planer to suface the wood before joing . I have a out feed and infeen roller when I joine 12-16' material.

Hope that helps.

Quinn

[Erik Loza]

I can't tell anyone what is best for them but will say that I have a number of customers with Inca jointer/planers and those things are tiny. Yet, they seem to love them and don't talk about parting with them. So, I agree with Quinn: If you just love the machine, the capacity probably isn't as big an issue and you'll find a way to work around it.

Erik

[David Kumm]

If you have the money, there is nothing wrong with spending 2000-4000 on a good used 12-16" jointer. the value is there. I have a DJ 20 for my small jointer and the tables are less flat than my 12" Oliver or 16" and 24" Porters. The older PM 12" were Euro and can be found as well. Dave

[John TenEyck]

You have to be willing to cast your net wide. For example here's a 12" crescent up for auction right now:

http://www.irsauctions.com/popups/bidders_paddle.asp?lot=347090&auction=WS35D1PM9N6H6OZIR03AJUBLYM1LTV&id=20292


3 HP, 3 ph. You can buy a VFD to run it on 220V single phase power for around $150. I'll bet you could have this in your shop, running, for well under $2K.

Eric, you are right; I loved my Inca. But I love the MiniMax more! Bigger IS better.

John

[Ralph Okonieski]

If you get one wider than 8", you will wonder have you ever got along without it. Go as wide as you can afford.

[Rich Riddle]

I started with an antique Craftsman 4", then a Delta 6", then a Jet 8", and then finally bought a 15" or so Minimax. Do your wallet a favor and purchase a size larger than you think you need. Constant upgrades get expensive.

[David Linnabary]

The hard part is being patient until the right deal comes along on a larger machine. I suppose a lot depends on how much you want to purchase a turn key machine vs one that might require some work. I agree with David Kumm above, his mention of the older PM 12", if he is referring to the SCMI manufactured ones, they also built for Rockwell in the 70's. I was looking for an old but not too old a machine, nothing with babbit bearings or the square cutterhead but I was willing to deal with a 3 phase so that narrowed my scope a good bit and it did take a while to find the right deal that wasn't too to far away.

If I didn't have a jointer and there was an 8" machine was available, I'd buy it and start enjoying it now. Maybe you'll upgrade someday. If you really feel you need to then stash away the money for it and be ready when the deal comes along.

David

[Jim Becker]

"For me", an 8" jointer isn't enough which is why I bought my J/P originally. I like to work with wide boards and flattening lumber is also important to me.

Your decision needs to be based on what you intend to use the jointer for...or what you envision using it for if your habits might change with more capability.

[Earl McLain]

if space or money were not an issue I would have an aircraft sized jointer, but a good 8" jointer is all anybody really needs. Remove your guard and rabbeting attachment and you can easily joint boards of 12" or more; just double stick tape something flat (is use 3/4 ply) to the jointed part, flip over and run through you planer, essentially using your planer as a jointer. Anyone who ever said that your jointer and planer have to be the same size, isn't thinking very creatively. For boards wider that 12 inches (and I use a lot in my work, I will either use a rounder sled or of the board is reasonably flat a planer to get one flat surface. My advice, get yourself a quality 8 inch jointer, and spend the money saved on something else! One last thing, the difference in quality between most 6 and 8 inch jointers is huge. I haven't notice any improved quality in going from 8 to 12 inch jointers. A lot of serious woodworkers opt for 8 inch jointers.

It took a few seconds for that technique to sink in Bob, but i like it!! I may keep my 6" after all.
earl

[mark mcfarlane]

I rarely buy or use boards wider than 8". That said, I use my 12" MM combo all the time. Changed out to Byrd Helical Head and never going back.

Mike, can you briefly share your experience between the Tersa and Byrd heads on the MM combo? Conceptually, I really like the idea of the Tersa head and a <2 minute swap of 3 knives: to mill some crapwood, to change steels for a different finish, 5 seconds to slide a knife to get rid of the nick,..

[Steven Wayne]

Whelp.. I found a 16" Oliver 166 with a Byrd Shelix head on it for $4500 within driving distance. That puts the machine directly in Minimax FS30 - FS41 Classic price range. I already have the 20" four post planer with Shelix head.. I'm tempted to buy the beautiful old iron... The FS41 Classic isn't too far off in price and the combo machines space savings is appealing. Ugh...

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh man that is a hard choice. Be sure you have enough electrical service to run the Oliver if your at a home shop like me.Im not sure about the euro machine.But I do have some experience with the needs for the three phase Oliver.

[David Kumm]

Most Oliver 16" ran a 5 hp motor. I've sen very few with an upgrade 7.5 or 10 at that size. Dave

[Steven Wayne]

Most Oliver 16" ran a 5 hp motor. I've sen very few with an upgrade 7.5 or 10 at that size. Dave

This machine is 5hp direct drive. I'm not worried about powering the machine. More questioning if it's the right machine for me. It looks incredible.

[Pat Barry]

In my view, wide sticks are full of growth stress and should be ripped (bandsawn) down to a manageable size before jointing.
If the glue line is the issue, re-assembly as ripped, usually makes the joint invisible on the face.
Moreover, do you have the strength to manage an 8-12" wide stick?
A 6-8/4 10" x 8' stick can weigh 35+ pounds. Can you hold a stick down on the table, end to end, with enough control to flatten it?
And if you can, how much of it is left?
LOL. Mostly when I talk about 'sticks' they are small things. You talk about large planks like they are nothing.

[jim mills]

Wow Steven...that oliver sounds nice. Where is it? :D

[David Kumm]

That 166 has been for sale for some time. The guys who like old machines tend to be cheap so 4500 for any machine is above the means or wants of many. Also, the byrd head is only considered an upgrade to the old machine guys if the original head is a " clamshell design " so most won't pay for the conversion. I like the old 5" diameter straight knife head but the byrd is OK. The key to to check the tables and bearings. I'm not a fan of sealed as the original were open and oil bath but they may have been replaced with them. If the tables are flat and they will be unless worn in the center area, you should be good. There have been no improvements in jointers for about 75 years so it is all about build and table. Dave

EDIT. There have been a few Byrd jointers on the market and this might not be the one I saw.

[Steven Wayne]

I'm not feeling like the value is there for me... It's a good looking machine from the photos. But, for not much more money I can have a new 16" Minimax combo machine that has a single phase motor. For now, I think I'm going to wire in a Phase-o-matic static converter on the 8" Powermatic's 1.5HP motor..

[Jerrimy Snook]

Just saw this on craigslist. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/5562105968.html

[Andrew Hughes]

That's a awesome looking jointer I wonder how the Byrd head cuts at 4000 rpm head speed.
I wonder if that's the machine the op was looking at.

[Len Rosenberg]

I upgraded my 8" Powermatic jointer to a Minimax FS41 Elite 16" jointer planer combo with tersa head, and could not be happier. It is a quiet, smooth, powerful beast that so far has easily handled anything I've thrown at it. Adding this machine to my shop has made a huge difference the types of projects I can do and the speed at which I can do them. There are two things I can do with the 16", one obvious, one not. The obvious one is jointing and planing 16" wide. So if you glue up a panel, up to 16" wide, just run it through the planer once to remove any height variation along the glue line. Saves lots of time sanding or using a hand plane. Second, and not obvious, if you have highly figured wood up to 10-12", you can tilt it diagonally and and get a shearing cut from the jointer head that reduces or eliminates tear out. Since you are already considering one, go for it and don't look back. You won't be disappointed.

[Steven Wayne]

Len, I feel like that is the right choice for me, too. Just not right now. I'm going to get the Powermatic going to meet my needs for a while.

Thank you to everyone for the input and insight. I appreciate it!