Would Like Input On Whether Cole Jaws Make Sense For Me

[Dom Garafalo]

I'm a new turner with a Jet 1221vs lathe and a Nova G3 chuck with standard 2" jaws.

I've just started to practice making small bowls but do not have a reasonable way to finish the bottoms after shaping the sides and the insides.

I'd rather not spend time making donut or jam or other miscellaneous home made chucks to allow me to finish the bowl bottoms and I'm thinking that purchasing Nova's Cole Jaws might make sense. My lathe has a 12 1/2" swing over the bed and Nova's standard Cole jaws requires a minimum of a 12" swing.

So I have two questions:

1. Are Cole jaws that fit my Nova G3 the option that makes the most sense based on what I've said above?

2. If so, do the standard Cole Jaws that require a minimum 12" swing make sense verses Nova's mini Cole Jaws that require a 8" minimum swing? I only ask because although the bowl size capacity of the standard jaws is desirable, is having only a 1/4" clearance over the bed potentially problematic?


I would appreciate your thoughts and input.

Thank you

Dom

[Brice Rogers]

I have a set of Cole jaws for a Grizzly chuck. I also use a flat homemade mdf faceplate to which I hot-melt larger items that don't fit the Cole jaws. When I started with my smaller original lathe, I didn't have cole jaws. Instead, I would often plan my work so that the foot was finished before I reversed it and worked on the other side. I also hot-glued bowls to an mdf faceplate then as well. If you draw concentric circles on the mdf with the lathe spinning, it is easy to center the bowl. Also, if you left a dimple from the tail stock live center, that even makes it easier to center the bowl. With it centered, then I apply the hot glue. When it cools you can snap off the glue. If residue remains, paint thinner will remove it.

I haven't examined the specs for the Nova Cole jaws but suggest that you check to see if the 12" minimum swing requirement is with the jaws fully extended. If it is NOT, then I don't think that this will work. If the 12" swing is with the jaws fully extended, you should be in good shape.

Just one opinion.

[Roger Chandler]

You can make a jam chuck with a piece of scrap plywood, an old piece of carpet pad, and the faceplate that came with your lathe......use the tailstock and live center for pressure forward on your tenon, and turn the tenon down to a nub and then chisel the nub off. Probably save you nearly $100 and works better IMHO........just sayin! I hardly ever use my Cole jaws any longer.

Other jam chucks can be a lot simpler, just turn a tenon on a piece of wood to fit inside your bowl, and put an old mouse pad inside to protect from marring the freshly cut or finished inside.

[carl mesaros]

I know I'm not answering your questions but have you considered a vacuum chuck? I used Cole jaws and a Modern Longworth chuck for several years but recently purchased the Holdfast system from Craft Supplies. No more cole jaws for me.
If you already own a small compressor the system isn't terribly expensive.

[Rick Bailey]

I just use a face plate, turn the outside and a dovetail recess - sand.
Reverse the bowl and hollow.
I have a set of HTC 125 cole jaws but don't use them much.

[Aaron Craven]

I know you said you don't want to make a jam chuck, but for many things you may not need to make anything. I often put an old mousepad between the inside of my bowl and my chuck, bring the tailstock up and put pressure against the tenon. Cut down as small as you dare, remove and sand or chisel away the last little bit. I did find that the live center that came with my lathe was a poor choice for this. A 60-degree cone center solved that problem. Take light cuts at low speed when doing this. Just as with a cole chuck, this is not a situation where you really want a catch (although the tailstock pressure makes it a little more safe).

I've never used a cole chuck, but I hear lots of horror stories about the bowl coming off and I think there's a fairly narrow limit on just how much bowl it can practically handle. Vacuum chucking sounds much more promising, but is quite a bit out of my means.

[Robert Henrickson]

A jam chuck is better, cheaper, and easier. Less than 5 minutes to make one. I have had Cole jaws that as part of a multi-jaw set for 45 yrs, and never used them. I have also had a vacuum chuck for several years that has never been used. A jam chuck can be made from scrap. I have 30-40 that I have accumulated. Make one to fit the needs of a given item. Sooner or later you will either use it, or modify it for another use.

[Steve Mawson]

As a couple others have said, use a cushion of some sort to rest the bowl against then bring up the tailstock and turn away as much of the tenon as you dare. Saw, chisel or whatever works best then sand to remove the rest. Just about free and you don't have the bowl jumping out of the cole jaws. Works for any shape of rim so I would recommend not using your hard earned dollars for cole jaws. Vacuum really works nice but certainly not free.

[Thomas Canfield]

Earlier posts pretty well say it, but I will add this. You can make jam chucks out of 2x4 or 2x6 scraps that will fit the general contour of your bowl interior, and then use a pad (I use the cheap rubber shelf liner) to pad, and the live center for pressure to turn down to a nub. I like to use a flush cut saw with protective layer (thin plastic or cardboard) to protect the bottom, and then a little 1" or even 2" disk sander in drill press or hand drill works well to sand cut area. That will work for natural edge bowls, worm hole bowls, bowls too large for cole jaws, and even with some modifications for hollow forms. Unless you have a dedicated cole jaw chuck, changing jaws is a pain, and a vacuum does not work on a "holey" bottom. The jam method is good to know and often the only option. Save the money at the early stage, and add later if you win the lottery.

[William Bachtel]

I rarely use my cole jaws. It was a waste of money, takes to long to sat up, and size limitations

[Dom Garafalo]

It certainly sounds like conventional wisdom is to make and use jam chucks.

The experience and opinions of the members of this forum are good enough for me so I will work on making and using jam chucks.


Thank you for everyone's input.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Awesome! I was going to add that I use jam cucks the most. But I guess we already changed your mind! I have the holdfast vacuum system. It works well for those items that you have to hold without a tailstock. Not the greatest vac system, but it works. I have Longworth chuck too. They are both better than cole jaws IMO.

About those 2x4 or 2x6 scraps, be careful, and do not use treated lumber, the dust gets in the air and although I'm not sure if the borate or whatever is harmful to us, it certainly couldn't be good for your lungs..... Just saying....

[Justin Stephen]

Never owned cole jaws but did buy one of those "modern longworth" chucks several years ago and quickly decided it was mostly garbage. I subsequently built myself a doughnut chuck "system" (one base with several matching outer rings) and still use it to this day. No doubt a good vacuum chuck would be even better, but I have never been able to justify the money/time since the doughnut chuck works well.

[Don Jarvie]

I have the mini Cole and it works ok. You need to use the tail stock to keep the bowl from flying. They don't trip tight enough to not use the tail stock.

[Justin Stephen]

I have the mini Cole and it works ok. You need to use the tail stock to keep the bowl from flying. They don't trip tight enough to not use the tail stock.

Yup, my experience with the modern longworth as well. To finish the bottom, I would end up taping the bowl to the longworth with several long strips of painters tape and take only very light cuts. That worked, but its a very kludgy solution.

Not an issue with the doughnut chuck. I lined my doughnut chuck base with adhesive 1/4" neoprene which not only protects the top of the piece, it also makes it that much more difficult for the piece to ever move once tightened down. I've taken some reasonably aggressive cuts with mine and haven't had an issue. Combine that with the fact that you can construct one to be within a hair of the maximum swing of your lathe and you only lose a little for the inset for the carriage bolts. So, basically, I can finish a piece up to about 18 3/4" in diameter on my 20" lathe, which is pretty darn good IMHO. The only real downside is that you need to remember to mark your bottom center with a dimple since tailstock centering is more critical with a doughnut chuck than with a longworth or cole jaws.

So again, just my opinion, if one is not ready/able to buy a good vacuum system, a doughnut chuck is the next best choice.

[John Grace]

I've used cole jaws for several years and like them very much though I do believe it's a question of to each his own to some extent. I've made 'extensions' for jaws so the size is limited to my lathe swing itself. That said...I've also done jam chucks and 'donut' presses to hold my pieces to turn the bottom and though I prefer my cole jaws I do believe it's more of what you're comfortable with and the right tool for the job.

[Steve Arnold]

I also happen to have a Jet 1221VS and a Nova G3 chuck. I've been using the 12" version of the Modern Longworth Chuck (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/103/4604/RMWoodCo-Modern-Longworth-Chuck) for several months now and have been very pleased with it. I considered a set of Cole jaws at the time, but decided against them because I didn't want to have to hassle screwing on and unscrewing the four jaws every time I wanted to finish the foot of a bowl. With the ML, I can (literally) pop it on and off the lathe in a few seconds.

[William C Rogers]

I've used cole jaws for several years and like them very much though I do believe it's a question of to each his own to some extent. I've made 'extensions' for jaws so the size is limited to my lathe swing itself. That said...I've also done jam chucks and 'donut' presses to hold my pieces to turn the bottom and though I prefer my cole jaws I do believe it's more of what you're comfortable with and the right tool for the job.

For a bit I thought I was the only one. I have a chuck dedicated to my Cole jaws. However I think I would really like a vacuum chuck instead.

[Bruce Lewane]

I also have a chuck that is dedicated to flat jaws and can be extended to cover the entire swing of my Jet 1221. It covers everything I do very well. Finishing the bottom of bowls is a breeze.
As with everything in this vortex, it all depends on what you want to do.

[Frank Drew]

I've used cole jaws for several years and like them very much though I do believe it's a question of to each his own to some extent. I've made 'extensions' for jaws so the size is limited to my lathe swing itself.


I'm with John, and I packed up my lathe's swing from 12" to just under 19" and added extending plates to the Cole plates that accommodated bowls and platters up to almost 18". In my experience, Cole jaws are fast to use and are very versatile for a variety of rim shapes and sizes; I rarely if ever needed to bring the tail stock center up to help hold the work and never threw a bowl, but of course you can't be super aggressive with your cuts.

[david privett]

just like so many things cole jaws have there place, I like mine(psi large jaws and jumbo jaws) they go out to I think 17 inches. but as just about everything else reasonable care must be used. We all know people that will break anything you give them to use.

[daryl moses]

We all know people that will break anything you give them to use.
I broke an anvil once.
I also have and use PSI's large and Jumbo jaws, never had a problem with them and I have returned some pretty out of round pieces to the lathe to finish off the bottom.
Just exercise caution and common sense and it's alllllll good.

[David Delo]

Vacuum has replaced most applications for the cole jaws for me. Finishing off the bottoms of vases is about the only use I have for them anymore and I'm spying one of the rubber chucky gizmos for doing these.
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[Leo Van Der Loo]

As I return my dried rough turned bowls I use my Oneway Jumbo and Mega jumbo jaws, I also have the small sizes that I use on the Jet 1014 and the slightly larger size for my Delta 46-460.

My vacuum chuck just doesn’t get used for these warped pieces, but pretty well all of them get held with the Jumbo jaws, often with some extra wedges to prevent the piece from wobbling.
The small and light wedges are just taped to the jaws, if I need larger ones I use screws to keep them from flying off.

Also no help from the tailstock (large lathe hasn’t one outboard where I turn all my larger pieces) so returning the recess is the first thing I do, and then very often also return the outside while it sits in the Jumbo jaws, takes some care to do that.

I also still have roughouts that I turned years ago, before I had my chucks and used my faceplate to hold the blanks (no waste block either) so for those I use other ways to turn the piece true and then can use the Jumbo jaws to turn out the screw holes and make a recess, pictures help to show, so here are a couple where I return some old dry Apple roughouts.

Also a picture that shows the soft touch of the Jumbo jaw holding a finished bowl to finish the foot, works fine.

Here are two different Applewood bowls that had warped some, on the first one I returned the recess and also returned the outside while held in the Jumbo jaws, the second one had screw holes and no recess, so turned away the screw holes and made that into the recess to hold the bowl when returning the inside.
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This old Apple bowl had still the chain-sawn base with the screw holes, so I first flattened the top edge and turned a inside straight face to be able to then hold it with the Jumbo jaws and turn the screw holes away and make a recess to hold and return the bowl, sometimes it takes another step to get there, no production turner, and I have the time.
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Returned and finished this Black Walnut bowl, then held it in the Jumbo jaws to finish the base, holds well with no damage to the bowl or finish.
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So yes Jumbo jaws can be a good way to hold your turnings, though you better have a soft touch and know what you are doing :)

[Blair Swing]

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If you plan on doing segmented work, I use Cole Jaws a lot for leveling one side of the layer if it is thick enough.

If it is too thin (less than the bumpers) or too thick (judgment call), then hot glue with supports like I show.

I don't find it difficult at all to use Cole Jaws, but then maybe doing the segmented work I do, I have more patience on set-up than some people (grin)

I wouldn't trust them for a larger bowls, though, I would use a jamb chuck, and even hot glue a couple spots if I wasn't certain it was tight, and bring your tailstock up as others suggest for the added assurance.

[Dom Garafalo]

Thanks Leo for a detailed explanation of how you handle finishing the base of bowls along with a great accompanying pictorial.

I must now confess that a growing number of turners on this site are in fact successfully using Cole or flat jaws. I did make a jam chuck based on early responses but am rethinking whether the pull of the vortex to purchase Cole jaws will win out.

As a new turner I can now clearly see how addictive this hobby is.

[Frank Drew]

You can also use longer bolts to hold the rubber grippers (or shop-made grippers) for bowl rims that have to be held higher than right at the jaw plates.

[Jamie Straw]

For holding things on a lathe in general, there's a very good book called Fixtures and Chucks for Woodturning: Everything You Need to Know to Secure Wood on Your Lathe by Doc Green, it's around $17 on Amazon. He pulls together information that's spread all over the place, good illustrations and practicums you can conduct to hone your skills. I loaned my copy to one of our chapter members, and he bought 3 copies to give to friends. It's a good-un.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

You can also use longer bolts to hold the rubber grippers (or shop-made grippers) for bowl rims that have to be held higher than right at the jaw plates.

If you look at the last picture you can see that I stacked the buttons to get high enough to hold the rim of that bowl, as these buttons have metal centers they do stack and sit securely on top of each other, and yes you could go a little taller yet, but you do have to take the strength of the rather thin bolts in consideration when holding heavier pieces when going farther out.

[Len Mullin]

Dom, I'm a relatively new turner, and I wouldn't want to be without my Cole jaws. They make turning so much more enjoyable, and you're not always frigging around with jam chucks. The thing about Cole jaws, is that they should be on a dedicated chuck IMO. My first set were bought from another turner, they were a small set of jaws. They helped me get so much better results on bowl bottoms, that I bought a large set for larger items. Yes, they can be a bit dangerous at times, but that all depends upon how you use them. Bottom line, get a set, you won't regret it.
Len

[Stan Smith]

I also happen to have a Jet 1221VS and a Nova G3 chuck. I've been using the 12" version of the Modern Longworth Chuck (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/103/4604/RMWoodCo-Modern-Longworth-Chuck) for several months now and have been very pleased with it. I considered a set of Cole jaws at the time, but decided against them because I didn't want to have to hassle screwing on and unscrewing the four jaws every time I wanted to finish the foot of a bowl. With the ML, I can (literally) pop it on and off the lathe in a few seconds.

I used Cole chuck jaws for many years with my oneway chuck. However, I've been doing small projects and always use the tail stock. I like to use the detail carbide cutters from Easy Wood and Harrison Tools to remove the tenon on the bottom. It's easy to take very light cuts with them. Because of the issue of changing jaws, I just bought the Big Easy jaws for my Easy chuck. As Steve says, now it's only seconds to change jaws.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

You can’t compare the longworth chuck with the Oneway Jumbo jaws, that’s like apples and oranges, the longworth never has the ability to grip a bowl like the Oneway Jumbo jaws are able to do.

As i showed in the pictures, not only do I remove but I also return the tenon/recess and the outside of the warped bowls, and all without the tailstock keeping the bowl in or from slipping out.

But yes you do have to know how to and take a more delicate cut and turn without a catch.

Of course I do not turn to make a living, it has always been a hobby for me, so I will take the time needed, just changing the chuck for one with the Jumbo jaws mounted on it does take hardly any time at all.