Grain orientation for face grain glue-ups

[Malcolm Schweizer]

When gluing face grain boards for a laminated top, there are three options for orienting the end grain:

Alternating grain direction. ()()()()()()()
Same grain direction. ((((((((((
It doesn't matter, do what looks best for the finished face of the laminate. ()(()))()(())(


I realize you need to optimize the longitudinal grain direction for planing, but that aside, which way do you orient the end grain when doing a face-glued lamination?

I found this this humorous thread that shows there are many opinions when only two boards are involved-
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?133420-Which-way-would-you-orient-grain-for-gluing-up

I found this essay which says orient them like this- (((((((.
http://www.fullchisel.com/alburnam12.htm

I was always told to alternate if possible, but now I am not so sure. It seems, after some research, that I am not alone. I found many differing opinions on this, although most were involving only two boards and I am asking specifically about a laminated top with multiple boards face glued together. Wood is kiln dried ash.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Wood has a tendency to warp in a specific direction. Alternating that side grain direction is claimed, by some, to give you a ripple across the top rather than a large bow.

I have also heard that when done properly, this has minimal effect and there was some reason to do them all the same direction.

I am usually careful about direction for things like drawer sides.

I usually try to look to see:



what looks the best
Try to get the grain running in the same direction for planing.


and I need to run away now....

[J.R. Rutter]

((((( makes sense to me, though I have not had issues (like delamination or cracks) with kiln dried wood regardless of how I've done it. In a way, it is similar to avoiding pith in a beam if possible, because it will generally split. This seems to rule out (()).

[Wayne Lomman]

Malcolm, have another read of the Full Chisel article you refer to. What he says ()()() is what I have been doing for 40 years both in my own workshops and as an employee in many different shops. If you do it this way, there is a good chance someone will be restoring the piece of furniture in a hundred years time because it will still be sound.

Wayne

[Prashun Patel]

I orient for aesthetics.

On a face-grain glue up like this, I don't think it will matter much. It matters more on an edge-grain glue up.

I have 3 benches, all three close to flat, none of them absolutely perfect. I reflattened one and it was pretty easy. It has never mattered in use. Even when checking parts for twist.

I submit that if your orientation of an (essentially) quartersawn slab has such a drastic effect on flatness, then the wrong wood has been used.

I would orient for planing. To that end, I ALWAYS get disoriented, so my advice is use marker to mark both faces of each slice before you rip.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Malcolm, have another read of the Full Chisel article you refer to. What he says ()()() is what I have been doing for 40 years both in my own workshops and as an employee in many different shops. If you do it this way, there is a good chance someone will be restoring the piece of furniture in a hundred years time because it will still be sound.

Wayne

I will do so. Thanks. I have an eye problem similar to dislexia. His site is very difficult to read. This is where I am reading that he orient grain all the same for face gluing, along with the image he included that shows the same.

"When gluing up pieces for large posts or turnings, I always have the cupping grain going in the same direction. This means that when the piece moves with age, and it will move, all of the movement will work together rather than having opposing internal forces that can cause cracking and delaminating of the joints. Quartersawn wood will not have any other problems other than normal shrinkage due to age. The matched cup grain of the wood produces a more uniform look when squared up or turned and finished."

[Mel Fulks]

When gluing anything dense and thick like 8/4 maple for bar rails and turnings I cut out about 1/8 of all surfaces not on exposed edges. Arrange board order based on what I think is going to show best. This makes sure that ,over time,the work won't show those slightly open joints at edges blamed on "case hardening". Prefer preventive action over standard excuse.

[Jamie Buxton]

Wood expansion and contraction is based on your local weather. There's more wood movement in places with wide swings in humidity and outside temperature, like New England. My guess is that the Virgin Islands has rather small temperature and humidity swings, so wood movement is pretty small there. That would mean you can orient the boards just for esthetics.

[Robert Engel]

Grain direction trumps which side up if you plan on planing the top.

If your sanding and/or scraping it doesn't matter.

In the end, I wonder if it really makes a diff.

[bob cohen]

Always goes for what looks best!!! If they are random boards with no obvious what-looks-best arrangement, then I would consider the other factors.

[Chris Padilla]

My standard reply on this is to orient for esthetics. If you have wood properly dried such that it is stable, it won't matter how you orient things.

[Wayne Lomman]

Orienting for growth rings, grain direction and aesthetics can all be achieved without excluding the others. At times one or another may have to be compromised but you will always end up with a better result if one does the best possible.

Just a note on sanding, it is just as helpful to sanding to have all the grain the same direction. Sanding with or against the grain achieves different results for example when staining. Sand against the grain and the wood fibres stand up and your stain penetrates more and darkens colour. Sand with the grain and the fibres lay down and the same stain will be lighter. This technique helps a lot when colour matching.

[lowell holmes]

[QUOTE=Malcolm Schweizer;2558971]I will do so. Thanks. I have an eye problem similar to dislexia. His site is very difficult to read. This is where I am reading that he orient grain all the same for face gluing, along with the image he included that shows the same.

His site is difficult to read. I find that if I enlarge the print (ctrl +) and not view it full screen, it is easy to read. You can make the page as wide as you want it.:)

[glenn bradley]

I use KD material and orient for looks. No problems.

[Sam Murdoch]

Grain direction trumps which side up if you plan on planing the top.

If your sanding and/or scraping it doesn't matter.

In the end, I wonder if it really makes a diff.


Always goes for what looks best!!! If they are random boards with no obvious what-looks-best arrangement, then I would consider the other factors.


These ^ are my considerations. Never had any issues after the fact.

[jack duren]

We alternate every table top and never go over 4" unless requested. But we only do 100-200 table tops a week with warranty...

You get educated real quick with that kind of volume....