Stanley 75 Bull Nose Rabbet Plane

[lowell holmes]

Has anyone of you used a Stanley 75 hand plane successfully? I have two of them. You would think they would be good for cleaning up a rabbet.
I have never been able to get thin continuous shavings with one.
I'm curious.
336238

[Tony Zaffuto]

Patrick Leach says they're good for cleaning paint off of window sashes!

I acually have one, and try as I have, I, too, have not been able to get a thin shaving, let alone a continuous shaving from it. Ironically, I bought it from Patrick, but only to clean up over-paint on baseboard.

[Mel Fulks]

The 90 (or is it 95) is more precise. I've used them for smoothing out bumps in sash pieces that ended up in a sash ,instead of being tossed and replaced. Cut the end 1/2 inch with a chisel first. Before all the 'thermo pane' type windows traditional sash were a big deal. Probably had other quick fix uses in other items,too.

[Jim Koepke]

Strange, mine came to mind today while cutting a dado/rabbet with a shoulder plane.

Mine has never impressed me in my attempts to use it.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the Millers Falls version and I can't get it to work well either Lowell. Very jerky, uneven cuts. It must be operator error, but I can't figure out how to handle it any better.

[James Pallas]

I'm no sure this is absolutely correct. This is how the use of the 75 was explained to me by an old timer years ago. It is not a rabbet plane, it is made for cleaning up humps. The front part of the sole or shoe is not made level with the sole of the plane. You set it for a very light cut the front will ride over a hump or up on it to keep the cut light so it doesn't dig in and just cuts the hump. I tried it and it does work for that and in that fashion. Mel's comment makes a lot of sense for sash Windows and such.
Jim

[Bill White]

I have found that mine is best used for very light trimming as James stated. Not intended for continuous ribbons of wood. Have not tried it for paint removal as yet.
Bill

[Patrick Chase]

Has anyone of you used a Stanley 75 hand plane successfully? I have two of them. You would think they would be good for cleaning up a rabbet.
I have never been able to get thin continuous shavings with one.
I'm curious.
336238

Bullnose planes are very similar to chisel planes in that they're incredibly finicky to set up. The toe doesn't provide much registration or support even when present, and obviously none at all when removed.

The setup is finicky because it's a balancing act between two undesirable behaviors:

1. If the blade doesn't extend below the sole then the plane won't start to cut (at least not on a flat surface), for obvious reasons.

2. If the blade does extend below the sole to any significant degree then it will tend to "dive", and take an increasingly deep cut until it finally gets stuck. You can see this very clearly by drawing the geometry: The back of the plane rests on the freshly cut surface, but the fact that the blade is extended means that it will try to cut deeper than that surface, leading to an ever deeper cut. The people who put toes on planes to begin with knew what they were doing :-).

In between is a VERY narrow range of settings where the plane will shave high spots and maybe almost take a continuous cut on a flat surface

I've had some luck by starting cuts with the blade extended but then slightly retracting the blade just as the base starts to register on the newly cut surface, but that's an epic pain in the you-know-where, and is only useful in a dire emergency. In the same vein you can sometimes fake it by weighting the toe of the plane at the start of the cut but then shifting back to the heel once it's established.

IMO it's absolutely critical that the toe of a bullnose plane be co-planar with the rest of the body. If it's lower than the body (such that there's a gap under the toe when you set the plane on a flat surface) then it won't help at all as it's too short to "forgive" such a gap as a longer plane might. This is one case where the "flat sole society" unquestionably have it right.

[James Pallas]

Bullnose planes are very similar to chisel planes in that they're incredibly finicky to set up. The toe doesn't provide much registration or support even when present, and obviously none at all when removed.

The setup is finicky because it's a balancing act between two undesirable behaviors:

1. If the blade doesn't extend below the sole then the plane won't start to cut (at least not on a flat surface), for obvious reasons.

2. If the blade does extend below the sole to any significant degree then it will tend to "dive", and take an increasingly deep cut until it finally get stuck. You can see this very clearly by drawing the geometry: The back of the plane rests on the freshly cut surface, but the fact that the blade is extended means it will try to cut deeper than that surface, leading to an ever deeper cut. The people who put toes on planes to begin with knew what they were doing :-).

In between is a VERY narrow range of settings where the plane will shave high spots and maybe almost take a continuous cut on a flat surface

I've had some luck by starting cuts with the blade extended but then slightly retracting the blade just as the base starts to register on the newly cut surface, but that's an epic pain in the you-know-where, and is only useful in a dire emergency. In the same vein you can sometimes fake it by weighting the toe of the plane at the start of the cut but then shifting back to the heel once it's established.

IMO it's absolutely critical that the toe of a bullnose plane be co-planar with the rest of the body. If it's lower than the body (such that there's a gap under the toe when you set the plane on a flat surface) then it won't help at all as it's too short to "forgive" such a gap as a longer plane might. This is one case where the "flat sole society" unquestionably have it right.
Patrick, I agree with all you say above concerning bullnose planes. I don't believe the 75 is in fact a bullnose plane. The toe was intentionally higher than the sole as stated in Patrick Leaches Blood and Gore and the old timer that used the plane and taught me. It is intended as a trimming plane and functions more like a chisel plane with a square side. It is intended to work off a referenced surface and trim humps and such. With the blade set close to even with the main sole of the plane it does work ok and it fits in a very small space. I don't think I'm an expert, only what I have learned from others
Jim

[bridger berdel]

I filed the sole on mine coplanar with the toe. It did improve the performance of it in my hands, but not by enough to make the plane worth the hassle compared to using a chisel.

[lowell holmes]

Somehow I ended up with two 75's. I've had no luck with either plane. Apparently, some of you have the situation where the front is a bit higher than the base. On both of my planes, The front and back are aligned, not offset.

The last time I used mine, I was working on an entrance door that has three leaded glass panels. I have three parallel openings and I wanted to clean up the narrow mortises for the panels before bedding the panels. I ended up paring with a chisel. It's not a big deal, but the nature of the beast is that such things should be cleaned up. :)

[Bill Houghton]

Another evergreen question. I've sold a couple - interestingly, the first one went to a painter. I guess painters do like them for cleaning up paint lumps.

[Derek Cohen]

Has anyone of you used a Stanley 75 hand plane successfully? I have two of them. You would think they would be good for cleaning up a rabbet.
I have never been able to get thin continuous shavings with one.
I'm curious.
336238

Lowell, these were a Stanley April Fool Joke.

Unfortunately 1 million people did not get that. Neither do those that buy them today. :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

This thread made me think of the Stanley 75s that have lured dollars from my pocket. I wasn't sure whether or not one still resided in one of my junk drawers.

Alas, it was sold. It was kept the longest because of it having slots on the sole. These seemed a natural for mounting something.

336307

Here is the verbiage listed with it when it was sold:


75 block plane Stanley blade With Fence Guide for Fly Rod Makers?

After having a few of this type of plane, I am not sure if this one is actually made by Stanley. It has a Stanley mark on the blade.

This block plane has slots on the sole to allow the attachment of a fence or other guides. There are likely a lot of uses for this plane with this feature. The addition of a fence allows for the making of controlled rabbets. A couple of angled fences would make a nice chamfer plane. Two shallow parallel fences might be good for trimming bamboo for fly rods. The possibilities are many.

The pictures pretty much tell the story. There is one showing the japanning loss on the one side. If you would like more pictures of this, just ask.

The piece of wood attached and the screws holding it on are included. Wow, such a deal!

BTW, the box for this is landfill worthy, unless you request otherwise it will accompany the plane for you to decide.

Like all my auctions, the shipping to U.S. locations is included in the bid. So if you bid the minimum and are the only bidder, YOU GET THE DEAL THAT OTHERS LET SLIP AWAY.

jtk

[Ray Selinger]

I posted an" Opps I bought a #75" on Canadian Woodworking forum. There were a couple of finish carpenters who found them handy. There is $1.30 price on mine. I wonder if he got his money's worth? The box looks new.

[lowell holmes]

I'm cool with it, at least I didn't spend a lot of money on them. If they are not in fact April Fools Jokes, they should be. :rolleyes:

I think the mechanics of cleaning out a mortise just doesn't lend itself to a bull nose plane. A shoulder plane will do a better job.
I have a Lee Valley minature and mediun shoulder planes as well as a small router plane that do the job.
When I started this discussion, I was curious if anyone had found the bull nose plane to be effective. Apparently not.

[James Pallas]

I'm cool with it, at least I didn't spend a lot of money on them. If they are not in fact April Fools Jokes, they should be. :rolleyes:

I think the mechanics of cleaning out a mortise just doesn't lend itself to a bull nose plane. A shoulder plane will do a better job.
I have a Lee Valley minature and mediun shoulder planes as well as a small router plane that do the job.
When I started this discussion, I was curious if anyone had found the bull nose plane to be effective. Apparently not.
Lowell I did try to say that I found the little ugly plane useful but not in the way a traditional bullnose plane is used.
i used it for leveling small areas while doing inlay work or to clean up a small hump in a rabbet or working around a patch in a top or something. It is kept in the top drawer of my secondary tool box just for those tiny jobs. It even works okay for leveling plugs where you can't get a chisel to lay flat. Just don't try to start it on the nose. Works more like a chisel plane.
Jim

[lowell holmes]

Lowell I did try to say that I found the little ugly plane useful but not in the way a traditional bullnose plane is used.
i used it for leveling small areas while doing inlay work or to clean up a small hump in a rabbet or working around a patch in a top or something. It is kept in the top drawer of my secondary tool box just for those tiny jobs. It even works okay for leveling plugs where you can't get a chisel to lay flat. Just don't try to start it on the nose. Works more like a chisel plane.
Jim

James, you did say that. Since I haven't done inlay work, your response slipped my mind. I was responding to Derek's jestful post in jest. (I know jestful is not a word, but it should be.)
I haven't destroyed my two. They are both clean, sharp and will make fine shavings on white pine planing with the grain. I have never been able to successfully clean up a mortise with them. My small router plane or a sharp chisel is what I use for that task.

I will not dispose of my two, they are clean, shiny, and sharp. It's good that you spoke up, because some one will find your tip useful.

[James Pallas]

Lowell, One more little aside it does not work at all good for cleaning up tenons at least not in the configuration that the Stanley's are with the toe not level with the sole. It only works when referencing off the sole. If the toe has been leveled with the sole then it may work somewhat as a regular bullnose plane.
Jim

[Franklin Ferrier]

I bought one about 25 years ago when I was renovating a house, before I really started making cabinet type things and didn't have a good set of tools. It never really worked very well, but it must have done the hacking job I originally bought it for, which I can't remember what it was. At the time I had never heard about fettling a plane and thought it was supposed to work out of the box. :cool:

A couple of years later I started buying real tools and scored a #90 that did all I needed for a long time and worked smooth as silk.

About a year ago I picked up the #75 again and took on the challenge of making it work. It is an English made version, as new IOB. The casings needed quite a bit of work. Nothing fitted square. The bed was rough and the blade was full of machining marks.

I filed and fitted and sharpened and adjusted the set up and finally it made easy shavings, but it just doesn't have a nice feel in the hand. In fact I used it just yesterday, by choice. I've been repairing an old cedar dresser and the doors were binding along the lower margin. I needed to relieve the bottom rebate the door closed against and the #75 was what I picked up. It was easier to wield in the situation than the #90 would have been and took nice little curlies on a couple of passes. Only the last 1/4" had to be cleaned up with a chisel.

I have also used it for cleaning out rebates when replacing glass panes in windows. It's good for doing these sorts of touch up jobs. It now lives on my active planes shelf.

[lowell holmes]

I think it is interesting that both of my Stanley 75's have the soles on both pieces exactly level. More than one post in this discussion shows the front piece to be slightly elevated.

I wonder if the cause of that is a design change or faulty manufacturing.

It would be interesting if Stanley would comment on this.

[James Pallas]

Lowell, I believe Patrick Leach on his Blood and Gore site to be trustworthy as far as Stanley planes go and he states that they are indeed made that way. The old timer that showed me how to use the plane worked for Landers, Ferry and Clark and then the Stanley Works in New Britain. He was a tool and die maker for Stanley and not a plane maker. He was in his eighties when he showed me and I was about 20, I'm 70 now so I believe my info to be substantially correct, if not so be it because it has worked for me for 50 years. Definitely not trying to be anything but helpful here on my part.
Jim

[Bill Houghton]

I filed the sole on mine coplanar with the toe.

My uncle made the same correction, but did it by filing the body where the front/top piece rested on it, pointing out, when he returned it to me, that this involved the removal of less metal.

I also added a palm rest by shaping a chunk of hardwood so that it was higher than the top of the cutting iron, which sticks up (sorry, no picture; don't know what I did with the photo I took). It made it easier to push, but I still got rid of the plane after I got a low angle, bevel-up bullnose plane (Record, and later a Stanley). They're just better planes.

[lowell holmes]

Definitely not trying to be anything but helpful here on my part.
Jim
We know that Jim.

Since I have two of the planes with the soles at the same elevation, I will shim one of them to raise the front part a bit. How much should I raise it. IIRC, 1/8" is what has been batted around.
You don't suppose Stanley manufactured them flush and users raised the front for some reason. I will have to make some dado's to see how they work. I could make three and clean out the bottom of one with a small router plane see how it goes.

[James Pallas]

Lowell, Give me a day or so and I'll go downstairs to my shop and take some pictures of the plane and get some measurements. I don't think it is an eighth more like a sixteenth or less. I may even do a couple of demo pics to show how I use the ugly little plane.
Jim

[Patrick Chase]

(I know jestful is not a word, but it should be.)

Jestful appeared in Webster's dictionary over a century ago. Not sure about OED.

[Mel Fulks]

I think the front of mine is flush with the back. Guess it could be shimmed ,but I know I never used it like that. Don't think I ever changed the front distance from iron either. I do remember that an old guy who had one told me I should get one to make sash quick fixes. The company was strict about sash quality and always ran some extra pieces ,but even so, some would need a little work. They had a rule of NO KN0TS, I put up a sash with one small pin knot. Foreman saw it and tod me "NO knots,gotta fix it".

[Franklin Ferrier]

When I started rehabbing mine, the toe of the English castings was actually lower than the body sole.

[Robert Engel]

After an hour or two of trying to use one, no nice way to say this, its a piece of junk.

[lowell holmes]

When I started rehabbing mine, the toe of the English castings was actually lower than the body sole.

And I checked mine this morning. The front and body soles are at the same elevation. I know some have used the plane, but I've never been able to make it work.

The last time I really tried to use mine was when I was making a front entrance door using straight grain fir. I had rabbeted the glass openings and the fir splintered a bit. I wanted to clean the rabbets.
I tried Stanley 75 to no avail. I ended up using a chisel to clean up the rabbet.

I have two LN rabbet block planes that I used, but I couldn't get into the corners of the glass rabbets with either of them.

[Prashun Patel]

I owned one of these, as well as the Veritas version. I hated them both. I couldn't get either to work 10% as well as a shoulder plane or a chisel did.

I may be sounding like sour grapes here, but that rather than bull'NOSE', I can think of a more appropriate 4-letter completion to this compound name.

[James Pallas]

Hey Lowell and others, Here is what I have. There is a weak 1/32 between the toe and the sole of my 75. To follow are some pictures if I can get them posted of how it can be used: The first pictures are trimming a plug, it's exaggerated normally would but cut a lot shorter. The rest are of trimming string inlay. Nothing fancy just done with scrap. There are many things this little ugly plane can be used as far as flush cutting
Jim

[James Pallas]

Here is how I was shown to use the plane. Set the iron even with the sole. Ride the sole on your reference surface that you don't want to cut. Cot off the plug or Nub or small inlay like those berries people like to use with stringing. Helps in not damaging your finish surface. It was never ment to be a rabbet plane, maybe to clean up some nubs in a rabbet. It will fit in a small space like a 6x9 sash opening to clean it up some and it will register off the side so not to damage a rabbet. It was not ment to cut rabbets or any other joinery as a stand alone tool.
Jim

[lowell holmes]

I ordered a 1/2" Woodriver bent paring chisel today. I will not need the plane. If I ever need to cut off a plug or nub, I'll be able to do it with either tool.

The Stanley 75 will remain in it's place on the bench. I will not disturb it anymore. It is clean and sharp.

I will be able to clean up a rabbet though.

[Sergey Petrov]

A few months ago I would agree with all the posters. Which recently made me wonder, why did a good coachmaker , who I bought my tools from, have two of these. They seemed terrible. So I fettled them properly.

Because these planes are quite simple, I think few people take the time or interest to fettle them like they would a fancy bench plane. I sharpened the blade (these blades are notoriously uneven on the face opposite to the bevel). Then I made sure the two castings met flush. Else when the screw is tightened, the casting pull skew. I also flattened the "cheapbreaker" as it was japanned on the mating surface. I cleaned up the blade bed.

The plane takes a full length shaving and is great for touching up edges as you really see what you are doing. I can cut endgrain with it as well as my blade beds circa 37-38 degrees.

I will try attach pics.343206343207

[Jim Koepke]

A few months ago I would agree with all the posters. Which recently made me wonder, why did a good coachmaker , who I bought my tools from, have two of these. They seemed terrible. So I fettled them properly.

Because these planes are quite simple, I think few people take the time or interest to fettle them like they would a fancy bench plane. [snip]

My reason for getting rid of mine was because it was difficult at best to adjust for different thickness of shavings. It was also uncomfortable to use.

The same sized Stanley #90 bull nose rabbet plane is a much easier and more ergonomic plane to use.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

My reason for getting rid of mine was because it was difficult at best to adjust for different thickness of shavings. It was also uncomfortable to use.

The same sized Stanley #90 bull nose rabbet plane is a much easier and more ergonomic plane to use.

jtk
Even the Stanley 90J, with no adjuster except your fingertips (often cheaper on the Auction Site than the 90), works better in my experience than the 75. There must have been a reason that this plane was produced for 94 years, but it sure escapes me. I own a Stanley 90J and a Record bullnose (don't ask me why I own two, I have no good answer), and I use the Stanley just about as often as the Record.

[lowell holmes]

This thread made me think of the Stanley 75s that have lured dollars from my pocket. I wasn't sure whether or not one still resided in one of my junk drawers.

Alas, it was sold. It was kept the longest because of it having slots on the sole. These seemed a natural for mounting something.

336307

jtk

Jim,
You know we don't sell tools, we collect them.

Lowell

[Allan Speers]

I'm no sure this is absolutely correct. This is how the use of the 75 was explained to me by an old timer years ago. It is not a rabbet plane, it is made for cleaning up humps. The front part of the sole or shoe is not made level with the sole of the plane. You set it for a very light cut the front will ride over a hump or up on it to keep the cut light so it doesn't dig in and just cuts the hump. I tried it and it does work for that and in that fashion. Mel's comment makes a lot of sense for sash Windows and such.
Jim


Jim, this makes a lot of sense.

I have the MF version, and have never used it. I always intended to grind the front down level, but while I know that I'd never actually get around to it, now I know that I don't NEED to never actually get around to it!

Maybe it's good for small knots. - but even then, it would benefit greatly from a tougher blade.

[glenn bradley]

Interesting conversation. I have used my Veritas version for years and never thought it unwieldy or unusable(?). Now I'll be questioning myself every time I use it :D.

[Franklin Ferrier]

A few months ago I would agree with all the posters. Which recently made me wonder, why did a good coachmaker , who I bought my tools from, have two of these. They seemed terrible. So I fettled them properly.


Sergey, after fettling what alignment gap did you end up with between the sole and toe?

Franklin

[Jeff Bartley]

I will agree that the 75 is not a tool for fine work but I've used one very successfully during floor repairs in an old house.
It really helps if it's sharp. And it's nice to have a tool that you don't mind using on a floor that has seen over a hundred years of dirt ground into the gaps between the floor boards!

[Rob Luter]

I have a Sweetheart era #75 that I bought at a flea market because it looked interesting and I have an affinity for Sweetheart era Stanley tools. I've never used it. As I recall, the bottom of the nose is not co-planar with the sole. It's slightly elevated above the work. This thread has me inspired to fettle the thing up and see if it's more than just an oddity.

[Robert Engel]

Franklin,

Exactly what does "fettle" mean, anyway?

Don't you mean "fiddle" 'cause its "3 strokes, fiddle, 2 strokes, fiddle".

That's all I ever did with mine until I finally gave up I could never get the iron to stay put.

[James Pallas]

Someone said that it takes about a year for the subject of the 75 comes up again. In previous posts I explained how I was taught to use it. I have thought about how to better explain. Try to think of it as a small chisel plane. As best I know it was made to reference off of the main sole not the nose. If used in that fashion it works decently. Using it as a full blown rabbet plane or shoulder plane etc. is an effort in frustration.
Jim

[Rob Luter]

I have a Sweetheart era #75 that I bought at a flea market because it looked interesting and I have an affinity for Sweetheart era Stanley tools. I've never used it. As I recall, the bottom of the nose is not co-planar with the sole. It's slightly elevated above the work. This thread has me inspired to fettle the thing up and see if it's more than just an oddity.

Follow-up......

I fettled the daylights out of this plane. The bullnose is not co-planar with the sole on my version. I lapped both until they were as smooth as a baby's bottom. I lapped the back of the blade to a mirror finish then refreshed the bevel at 25 degrees and added a small micro bevel at the edge. It's razor sharp. Then the design flaws reared their ugly head. Attempting to slide the upper portion (frog?) back to close the mouth revealed that to a large degree the blade beds on the frog. When you pull it back it loses registry with the sole casting and the blade bends when you try to fix it in place with the woefully inadequate lever cap. I gave up and extended the nose out so the blade would bed properly on both surfaces. The next challenge was getting the blade adjusted properly. After a few attempts I was able to get it tapped in place so it would take a reasonably fine shaving...for a minute. The problem was that the aforementioned woefully inadequate lever cap wouldn't hold it it place very well, and if it dug it the blade went out of whack. I put this plane in the same class as the Stanley 101. An interesting novelty designed to amuse and infuriate. Back in the drawer it goes.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/75.jpg

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/101.jpg