Any Pro Land Surveyors in the house?

[Sam Murdoch]

If so, I have a respectful (but urgent) proposal to you and your colleagues.

1st, the set up. I (and my wife and I) walk in the woods as often as I (we) can. Mostly in our many acres of land trust preserved properties located throughout our state. One 130 + acre piece is in my backyard so I consider myself most fortunate. Well, as you can imagine these parcels are routinely surveyed, new pieces added, next door neighbors selling their land etc. etc. Along with these regular surveys comes - too many rocks sprayed with fluorescent orange paint and trees festooned with orange plastic tape. No one ever come back to reclaim these decorations. The tape hangs on the trees, along the trails and deeper into the woods in the various swatches of woods cleared by the surveyor's machete for a long clear view for years and years - often as close together as twenty feet. Eventually the orange paint fades off the rocks and the color fades from the tape but the tape still hangs like discarded Christmas tree garland. I'm surprised the land trusts don't complain.

My suggestion - Use biodegradable paper ribbon rather than the plastic tape. Please suggest this to your trades organization and start a nation wide movement to keep the forests somewhat pristine even as you must do your job.

Thank you very much :)

Cheers, Sam

[Pat Barry]

This also applies to deer hunters in my area. They stake out their hunting area every year and never take their markers down, and this is on public property

[Brian Elfert]

I assume they place the ribbons because they need the markings to last for some. They would have to use pretty heavy paper to survive heavy rains for long. Paper can be coated, but that defeats the biodegradable aspect.

[Sam Murdoch]

I assume they place the ribbons because they need the markings to last for some. They would have to use pretty heavy paper to survive heavy rains for long. Paper can be coated, but that defeats the biodegradable aspect.

My impression is that they use tape because that is what they have. As for the length of time needed, I don't know this is true. I could be wrong, in some cases, but I believe that mostly they work through an area in short order - a day or two at most - establishing their sight lines and coordinates and then they move on to the next connect the dots. They just don't bother to walk backwards to gather up their tools so they leave trash in the woods.

[Steve Peterson]

Maybe an option would be to change the laws to force them to clean up the tape when they are done or else pay a fine for littering.

Steve

[Dan Hunkele]

They put the markers up for the land owner and it is up to the land owner to remove them or leave them.

[Roger Feeley]

Don't fishermen use dissolving line like dissolving sutures in surgery? Maybe surveyors tape should biodegrade. For the weekend warriors, you could have 3-6 month life. For the pros, you could have tape with various life-spans.

[Malcolm McLeod]

.. dissolving line ... tape should biodegrade...

You just hooked a lifetime lunker, pole is bent double, drag screaming! You holler at anyone and everyone within earshot, "GET THE NET! GET THE CAMERA!! GET A NET!!!" Then your line dissolves.:(

They make dissolving butt tape too. But no thanks, not for this child. I just have to know that its going to hang in there long enough to do it's job.:eek:

You just paid big bucks at closing for that cabin, lake-house, ski-lodge, retirement-dream, cozy-home-for-2 palace, condo workshop on the sea mountain lakeshore. But the surveyor's tape/stakes have evaporated. Gotta pay to re-do, while your neighbor builds his dream 6' over the line on your property. After he cut down your prize 56" diameter walnut for firewood. :mad:

...Careful what you wish for.

[daryl moses]

When I had my land surveyed I went behind the surveyors spraying paint on every other tree. When the paint begins to fade I re-spray.
Point being.......I had my property surveyed so I and my neighbors would know exactly where the property lines are. As long as I'm able to maintain those lines I will continue keeping them marked. I put steel fence posts on every turn as well.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

I worked for a land survey company for several years. It's all a matter of choice what the surveyor uses to make it visually easy for the land owner (or person paying for the survey) to locate where the rebar/iron pipes have been set and/or located in the ground; or where other designated items have been surveyed and marked for the owner. Some use bright tape, colored plastic stakes or painted wood stakes. It's not an issue of the surveyor being messy and leaving trash. They were hired to leave permanent and/or semi-permanent markers on that specific parcel of land. What the owner chooses to do with those markers after that is up to them. Often times, another person or company is then hired to do research or provide other services based on the survey markers and they need the visual markers to find them. I saw some projects that had been dragged out for over 10 years prior to me starting work there and the surveyor was brought back several times over those years to continue the project as each phase progressed.

[Sam Murdoch]

For what it's worth I wasn't referring to painted stakes or landmark trees or rocks or corner markers. I have those around my property too and they are useful. The tape I'm asking/complaining about is hanging off saplings and off the tips of branches - used for site lining their surveys. These things don't stay intact for years they break apart eventually in the wind or by the swaying branches and are eventually found in pieces all over the ground but in the short term - all summer and fall, for example, they are hanging in place. I don't believe these are long term place holders for the landowners though I can understand Mike in Iowa's point that survey jobs can go on for years. BUT - I'm asking because I don't know. Still think that some biodegradable product could be used in more applications than is currently the case.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Oftentimes land owners will plant a row of trees on the property line. The trees, at least most of them, will be there for years, thriving, contributing to the bio-dynamics and marking the line for as long as most any land owner will need them.

[Mark Blatter]

I worked several different survey crews over the years. Mostly I worked laying out new subdivisions and it was important to find the stakes, or re-bar, in the ground for a number of years. Bright orange tape is what we mostly used, though at times for special locations we would use blue and red together. It helps a great deal locating a hub or a re-bar in the ground when the area is covered with trees.

For the surveys you reference, yes, I can see the point of using something more biodegradable. It would be up to those paying for the survey to tell the crews to use something that won't be around for 20 years. Since the land will likely never be surveyed again, presuming that it is in trust or owned by a governmental agency, it shouldn't be an issue. Nobody will do it without someone asking for it though.

[Rich Riddle]

Everyone wants something different. I am about to have our main house surveyed and definitely don't want the survey makers to fade away. Usually here they stake out the boundaries. The problem with that is some folks can move those boundary markers.

[Ole Anderson]

My very first ever paying job was to tie orange flagging on stakes for a water main project while we waited for the rain to stop. Worked on a survey crew for 3 summers starting when I was 15. Went on to become a civil engineer, now retired. For the reasons previously stated, most of the time you want to flagging to remain for a long time. But I see that now you can get biodegradable flagging. http://www.benmeadows.com/presco-biodegradable-flagging-tape_36814365/

A bigger issue to me is the little flags and the paint that locating services like Miss Digg use to mark existing utilities. While they use degradable paint in the most part, they typically mark a much larger area than is needed, and no one, even the adjacent homeowner, seems to want to remove the old flags when the job is done.

[Sam Murdoch]

Thanks Ole - I'm passing this link to our local land trusts. At least it can be used when appropriate.

[Roger Feeley]

Hi Malcolm,
I always wondered about that dissolving line. The way I figured it, you would have to put new line in the reel pretty much every time you go out or risk losing a fish. My understanding is that the stuff dissolves over quite a long time.

As to dissolving tape, my point was that you could use dissolving tape based in how long your marks were expected to last.