Workbenches: Size, Weight, and Stability

[Luke Dupont]

Well, I wasn't happy with my choice of materials or design regarding my plywood workbench, so I switched to two-by stock.

My goal is to build a break-down, portable work-bench that is small and light, whilst still being stable enough to plane on. I have very limited space.

I have a piece of 2x12" pine that is 3 1/2 feet long. That makes for quite a small table top, of course, but I don't need a large table.
For the legs, I'm looking at 2x4's, 36" tall and mounted about 3-4" from the end of my table. That would create, roughly, a 36"x24" base, 36" high for my table. My worry is, if I'm surface planing a board, will that be long enough and wide enough to stop the table from wanting to flip? The end product won't be all that heavy. I think I'd rather not put a skirt (using the legs and vise for edge clamping tasks instead), and the 2x4's I'm using for the legs don't have all that much weight to them. I will probably add some 2x6's mounted flat to each pair of legs to extend the base to at least 2 feet wide front to back, and also to dampen the noise transmitted through the bench and into the floor as I live on the second story of an apartment, so that will add some weight I suppose.

I guess I could splay the legs out some as well. That would complicate the break-down design a bit.

The bench will also likely be prone to moving, being that small, and having those smooth, rounded long-grain surfaces on the bottom of the legs. I guess I could actually have some lip at the front to the boards at the base of the legs which I could stand on to solve many of these problems, though.

I don't know - maybe I need to go a little larger/heavier. I'd like it to be as small and light as will yield a still functioning/practical bench though; something I can move from inside to outside with relative ease, or load up in the back of my van.

So, I'm not sure if I described the design coherently, but, what is all of your intuition? Would a 3.5' bench, with 36"(long)x24"(wide)x36"(tall) base, all made of 2" (1.5-1.75 actual) thick stock be adequately stable? I could make it lower, of course, but I'd rather just go longer if that becomes necessary; I made my last bench about 32" high, and I have pretty bad back pain any time I work at that height, even when planing. My new bench would wind up about 38", which I find to be a much more comfortable height.

EDIT: Adding a picture for reference:
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EDIT EDIT: I'm also worried about stability of the joint where the legs slide into the benchtop. I was considering something along the lines of the "impossible looking dovetail that slides in at an angle presented on the Woodwright's shop episode featuring the French Workbench"-joint. I was also considering a one-way-only dovetail, where the legs are the pins. And I was even considering just a straight... uhh... half-mortise? Mortise missing a wall? Where I add a support between the two legs (to keep them from splaying outwards, out of the "mortise"), and just cut a square notch into the sides of the benchtop for the legs to fit into. The legs would have shoulders, and the "tenons" would be maybe 2" wide. Alternatively, I could try the French-workbench-impossi-tail, but I'm quite intimidated by all of the composite angles and not sure that I can replicate that.

[Richard Line]

Just a few quick thoughts on your bench design. The lip or standing platform at the bottom front could probably be made to work, but I suspect there would need to be a fair amount of intelligence put into its design to be effective, easily taken apart, and not work loose in use. Consider splaying the rear legs way from the bench, leaving the front legs vertical; I believe a number of British style benches use this approach.

Weight really does help keep a bench stable and the easiest way to add and remove weight is to use water, in jugs, say 5 gal. jugs. 2 of those jugs would add 80 pounds and the weight can be dumped down the drain when the bench goes into hiding. The jugs could be placed on a bottom shelf or frame incorporated into the stretchers.

Give a good bit of thought to how to keep the bench from flexing when planing and sawing. The flexing of the leg to stretcher joints could be killer, especially with the tall, short. narrow bench your planning.

I've got a 5 ft. by 22 in. bench that has proven to be a very workable size for me. The size was dictated by the size of an alcove in the garage that is my shop. Of course I don't have to break my bench down so it is fairly heavy.

[Luke Dupont]

I think a picture for reference might help:
335932

Just a few quick thoughts on your bench design. The lip or standing platform at the bottom front could probably be made to work, but I suspect there would need to be a fair amount of intelligence put into its design to be effective, easily taken apart, and not work loose in use. Consider splaying the rear legs way from the bench, leaving the front legs vertical; I believe a number of British style benches use this approach.

I'm actually concerned more about stability in the long axis, as the bench is quite high in relation to its length (not quite properly represented in my picture), and when I get to my stop at the end of the bench, it may want to tip over. Of course, tipping over the other way could be an issue too, but when I plane across the grain I usually go at an angle. As you can see, I have an alternative to splayed legs for the back-to-front axis. Do you think it will be adequate?



Weight really does help keep a bench stable and the easiest way to add and remove weight is to use water, in jugs, say 5 gal. jugs. 2 of those jugs would add 80 pounds and the weight can be dumped down the drain when the bench goes into hiding. The jugs could be placed on a bottom shelf or frame incorporated into the stretchers.


That's a great tip/idea! Thanks. I could definitely make use of that. Though, of course, I'd like it to be as stable as I can get it by design at this size.



Give a good bit of thought to how to keep the bench from flexing when planing and sawing. The flexing of the leg to stretcher joints could be killer, especially with the tall, short. narrow bench your planning.


Yeah. I am even more concerned about the joint where the legs attach to the benchtop, though. This design is inspired by the little French Workbench presented on the Woodwright's shop. It used a 3" benchtop and a very complicated dovetail joint (dovetailed in two directions, and sliding in at an angle). I was hoping a simpler joint would suffice.

[ken hatch]

Luke,

A draw bored housed tenon is as stable as you can get, complete the box i.e. bench top and a lower stretcher connecting the legs all with housed draw bored tenons and there ain't no way, no how the bench can rack. Move? Maybe, depends on how much it weights. Most folks overthink their work bench, make it simple, fast, cheap, and as heavy as you can. There is no need for complex joinery.

ken

[Luke Dupont]

Luke,

A draw bored housed tenon is as stable as you can get, complete the box i.e. bench top and a lower stretcher connecting the legs all with housed draw bored tenons and there ain't no way, no how the bench can rack. Move? Maybe, depends on how much it weights. Most folks overthink their work bench, make it simple, fast, cheap, and as heavy as you can. There is no need for complex joinery.

ken

Drawbore, as in with a pin through it? That wouldn't be removeable. I'm going for a bench that I can take apart and transport easily. Sans the pin though, I guess a mortise and tenon would work! As long as it doesn't wiggle out? Was just thinking it might be easier working from the open edge than making a large mortise in such thick material.

Would it be inadvisable to chop a mortise that size without drilling out any waste? I haven't had luck boring straight holes for my mortises, and find that I can work more accurately by just chopping. But, a 1" (or perhaps 3/4" would work?) wide mortise in a 2" thick top is far beyond anything I've attempted.

[Marty Schlosser]

My benches are always doing double duty as both bench and storage cabinet... I've never had to worry about them moving around the shop when in use!

[Robert Engel]

When building a bench, two concepts: MASS and RIGIDITY.

You really need to be thinking 3Xand 4X, not 2X.
Especially with the base, you just won't have the mass or stability using 2X material.

I recommend 3x3 or 4x4 for legs. Stretchers can be 2X6 or 8. Top supports at least 3x3.
Everything should be through tenoned with wedges. Draw boring is also ok.
The stretchers can be bolted if dissassembly is desired.

The top should be of stable wood and at least 2 1/2" thick. Commonly 2x material is ripped to 4" wide and laminated together.

Angled braces are unnecessary and you will never have to worry about tipping or racking if the base is built the way I described.

I built the first one from bowling lane the base is 5x5's it weighs in the neighborhood of 400#.
The second one is of maple the base is white oak it is my joinery bench not nearly as heavy as the first maybe 250#.
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[Robert Hazelwood]

If you add another short stretcher under the benchtop, you could attach the top using 1" or 3/4" stub tenons on the legs into blind mortises on the underside of the bench top. Then run a lag bolt from underneath through the top stretchers into the benchtop to secure it. The issue then is allowing for movement of the top...you could use a split top, or perhaps only use the stub tenons at the front of the bench. Or your lap joint idea could work fine in conjunction with some lag bolts.

For the long stretcher, either a through mortise with a wedge, or a blind M&T with a barrel nut, would be the way to go.

I am not sure if you really need the added diagonal bracing on the backside. 24" wide is within the normal range of bench widths, so yours is not especially narrow.

I would make it as long as I possibly could, and push the legs as far to the ends as I could, which will minimize the tipping moment from planing. In any case, you will probably need to add weight from time to time for heavier work, so consider ways to facilitate that. The 2x6 feet on each side would work for stacking weights on, but also will make the bench prone to sliding around IMO. You may be able to add some rubber feet on the bottom of those to minimize the contact area and get more bite with the floor.

[Jim Belair]

If I was going to make a bench that small and wanted it stable I'd add a shelf down low for added weights. Sandbags, barbell plates, etc.

[Reinis Kanders]

Bench this small and tall will be moving all over the place unless you somehow anchor it with ing the geometry of your room. Put it in the corner against the wall, etc.
You can add some sort of removable wood tie or anchor. E.g. screw a piece of wood to the leg and anchor other end against the wall. That way you would have the necessary clearance for having the planing stop at the very end.

[Richard Line]

I'm not sure you can make a joint between the legs and the 2" top (1 1/2"?) that will resist the moment that develops at the joint when planning. Think about using stretchers just under the top and connecting to the legs.

[Pat Barry]

Bench this small and tall will be moving all over the place unless you somehow anchor it with ing the geometry of your room. Put it in the corner against the wall, etc.
You can add some sort of removable wood tie or anchor. E.g. screw a piece of wood to the leg and anchor other end against the wall. That way you would have the necessary clearance for having the planing stop at the very end.
I agree. The proportions (height vs span) are unstable for planing. The base needs to be anchored somehow. Also, because the proportions are poor, the joinery needs to be stellar or the bench will just not be stable.

[Luke Dupont]

Hm...

I suppose, given it's small size and lack of weight, I could keep it rigid and not have it break down, and experiment with a platform at the bottom that I can stand on. If it works, that may be the best solution to reconcile my portability vs stability issue.

Maybe I should change the design and dimensions, but I can't go much longer than 4.5', and I need to be able to carry it down a flight of stairs and load it into a vehicle. And, if I go that large, it probably does need to break down.


Edit: Meh. Well, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I shouldn't just get some 3" material and make a proper workbench. That's a bit of time and money I won't be able to invest just yet, but I can get by with my makeshift benches and Japanese style planing board, I guess.

[Bill McDermott]

Luke,

Maybe you can plan to make this small bench serve a less demanding purpose later in life. For example, it may be your primary workbench now, but evolve into a sharpening station later in life. In any case, a Prius cannot be an F150, but it might be nice to have both later on.

I used a Stanley Workmate as my primary bench for years. That is the epitome of foldable and moveable - and it likes to move around when you plane on it. But with a foot placed firmly on the step, you get by. I still have it and still use it from time to time, especially for outside work.

[Luke Dupont]

Luke,

Maybe you can plan to make this small bench serve a less demanding purpose later in life. For example, it may be your primary workbench now, but evolve into a sharpening station later in life. In any case, a Prius cannot be an F150, but it might be nice to have both later on.

I used a Stanley Workmate as my primary bench for years. That is the epitome of foldable and moveable - and it likes to move around when you plane on it. But with a foot placed firmly on the step, you get by. I still have it and still use it from time to time, especially for outside work.

That's a good point.

Well, I've decided to give it a shot anyway, seeing as I have the wood and a need for a bench, but I've changed the design a bit. I took a look at the dimensions I was considering, and 36" tall with only a 36" long base did look like it would be more unstable than I'd like. I've, reluctantly, subtracted 6" from the height, and will be mounting the legs (permanently) on the very ends, giving me another 6-8" in length. So, that's 42" in length, and only 30" in height, giving me essentially a foot more of stability. I've also decided not to use any complicated joinery, or even spend too much time unnecessarily on this bench. I'm just going to screw it together. I'll save that for when I have the time and money to make something nicer. Will be adding a shelf underneath for weight, and a tool well on top for convenience (and, again, a bit more weight).

It won't look all that pretty, but hopefully it will be functional, and not kill my back too badly! ;)

[Lenore Epstein]

I've seen plans for small benches complete with vises and dog holes that are designed to be clamped on top of a bench to raise the work to a reasonable level for all you tall people. Sjobergs makes something like it, and Chris Schwarz posted plans for a taller version somewhere on his blog. He designed it for people who don't have the room or resources for a 'real' bench, but it might give you some ideas.

If wider isn't possible I'd suggest adding a stretcher and/or an apron, but IMO length would be a better option. For one thing, it seems that lateral stability (racking) is a big deal for planing and and other hand tool tasks. For another, a 30" work surface gave me a really sore neck and back and I'm only 5'4". I suspect you'd gain as much or more by adding length and/or more structural support as you would by lowering the height and setting yourself up for terrible ergonomics.

[Robert Engel]

I've, reluctantly, subtracted 6" from the height,That sounds way too low unless you not planning to do any planing at all. Too low will kill your back, too high it will get your shoulders and elbow. General rule of thumb is something like the distance from the ground to bottom of flexed hand. I am 6-1 my bench is 34" high. (Just a tad higher then recommended).


It won't look all that pretty, but hopefully it will be functional
Good decision to go ahead and built it, but screw it together? Maybe just difference in philosophy, but I submit we should always strive for excellent craftsmanship, even in something as simple as a clamp rack. Or a work bench.

Look at this as an opportunity to learn how to do wedged or draw bored tenons or hidden bolts in the stretchers. Good practice for when you build the next bench.


and not kill my back too badly! ;)See above:D



You really want a bench at least 80" long.

[Luke Dupont]

That sounds way too low unless you not planning to do any planing at all. Too low will kill your back, too high it will get your shoulders and elbow. General rule of thumb is something like the distance from the ground to bottom of flexed hand. I am 6-1 my bench is 34" high. (Just a tad higher then recommended).


Good decision to go ahead and built it, but screw it together? Maybe just difference in philosophy, but I submit we should always strive for excellent craftsmanship, even in something as simple as a clamp rack. Or a work bench.

Look at this as an opportunity to learn how to do wedged or draw bored tenons or hidden bolts in the stretchers. Good practice for when you build the next bench.

See above:D



You really want a bench at least 80" long.

All good points! But:

As far as height is concerned, I wonder if part of it isn't technique? Ie, I'm only 5'8, and while I've had difficulty with a 30" bench, you're quite a lot taller than me to be using a 34" bench comfortably! I've found 36" to be ideal. I sometimes put my Japanese planing board up on my existing table to reach that height. My bench will actually wind up 31.5", as I'll have those 2x6's underneath the legs. Part of my reason for going with this construction over joinery is also because I won't have any place to put joints, be they mortises or dovetails, because I had to move the legs to the very edges of the bench to get stability.

Moreover, I'm just making this with scraps; leftover construction grade pine. None of it is really pretty to begin with!

I definitely do want to make a bench that is a work of art, at some point. But, I figure I need something on which to learn the art better first ;)

[Chris Hachet]

When building a bench, two concepts: MASS and RIGIDITY.

You really need to be thinking 3Xand 4X, not 2X.
Especially with the base, you just won't have the mass or stability using 2X material.

I recommend 3x3 or 4x4 for legs. Stretchers can be 2X6 or 8. Top supports at least 3x3.
Everything should be through tenoned with wedges. Draw boring is also ok.
The stretchers can be bolted if dissassembly is desired.

The top should be of stable wood and at least 2 1/2" thick. Commonly 2x material is ripped to 4" wide and laminated together.

Angled braces are unnecessary and you will never have to worry about tipping or racking if the base is built the way I described.

I built the first one from bowling lane the base is 5x5's it weighs in the neighborhood of 400#.
The second one is of maple the base is white oak it is my joinery bench not nearly as heavy as the first maybe 250#.
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Now those are a coule of good looking benches!

[Chris Hachet]

I'm not sure you can make a joint between the legs and the 2" top (1 1/2"?) that will resist the moment that develops at the joint when planning. Think about using stretchers just under the top and connecting to the legs.


Pretty much this. My smaller bench is 2 x 4, with 4 x 4 legs and a ton of lumber in the base. It work as my assembly table and my outfeed table for my router table/table saw combo. I ahve dog holes for hold fasts, and a planing stop, but no vice on thi bench. I can beat on it and lane on it all day with no issue.

[Robert Engel]

All good points! But:

As far as height is concerned, I wonder if part of it isn't technique? Ie, I'm only 5'8, and while I've had difficulty with a 30" bench, you're quite a lot taller than me to be using a 34" bench comfortably! I've found 36" to be ideal. I sometimes put my Japanese planing board up on my existing table to reach that height. My bench will actually wind up 31.5", as I'll have those 2x6's underneath the legs. Part of my reason for going with this construction over joinery is also because I won't have any place to put joints, be they mortises or dovetails, because I had to move the legs to the very edges of the bench to get stability.

Moreover, I'm just making this with scraps; leftover construction grade pine. None of it is really pretty to begin with!

I definitely do want to make a bench that is a work of art, at some point. But, I figure I need something on which to learn the art better first ;)
That sounds about right I'm just giving a rule of thumb to give an average for most guys.

Yes you are correct you have to determine what's best for you and the type of work. For example if you are jointing a board will may be several inches above your bench height. If you are chiselling a lot you may want to sit down rather than bend. If you are using Japanese planes, this is a totally different ergonomic than pushing a plane.

I would still try go with thicker legs you can always glue two 2x4's together to make a 3x3. If you are screwing is together then using glue will help but to avoid flexing and racking you need those stretchers between the legs. Even lap joints are better than simply screwing together. Also mounting the bench against the wall will give a lot of rigidity.

Good luck with everything.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

It turns out it is not necessary to make joints. My workbench is held together with bolts and can be therefore disassembled. Feels rock solid. 36" tall and 5' long. Has no overhang but was able to integrate twin screw end vise. Plus I plan to add leg vise. Kind of square box for clamping! :)

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qtb0_pFMvwdW16VzdnaHJXcDQ/view?usp=sharing

[Luke Dupont]

That sounds about right I'm just giving a rule of thumb to give an average for most guys.

Yes you are correct you have to determine what's best for you and the type of work. For example if you are jointing a board will may be several inches above your bench height. If you are chiselling a lot you may want to sit down rather than bend. If you are using Japanese planes, this is a totally different ergonomic than pushing a plane.

I would still try go with thicker legs you can always glue two 2x4's together to make a 3x3. If you are screwing is together then using glue will help but to avoid flexing and racking you need those stretchers between the legs. Even lap joints are better than simply screwing together. Also mounting the bench against the wall will give a lot of rigidity.

Good luck with everything.

Ah, the legs are lapped and glued as well. I may follow your suggestion and make the legs 3x3!



It turns out it is not necessary to make joints. My workbench is held together with bolts and can be therefore disassembled. Feels rock solid. 36" tall and 5' long. Has no overhang but was able to integrate twin screw end vise. Plus I plan to add leg vise. Kind of square box for clamping! :)

336119
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qtb0_pFMvwdW16VzdnaHJXcDQ/view?usp=sharing

That's a nice looking bench! What thickness of stock did you use?

[Jim McGee]

If I was looking for a portable bench I would build using Will Myers plans for a Moravian workbench. Building the Portable Moravian Workbench with Will Myers (http://www.shopwoodworking.com/building-the-portable-moravian-workbench-with-will-myers-download)

[John Sanford]

Take a look at the Moravian workbench (https://videos.popularwoodworking.com/courses/building-the-portable-moravian-workbench-with-will-myers-part-1). It's designed to be transportable. The legs are splayed lengthwise. You could modify it by reducing the length and increasing the height. One thing you can do to address lateral racking with your current design is X braces, which can either be braces in compression, or for real light weight, braces in tension. How much can be supported in tension? Quite a bit (http://www.handyhammock.co.uk/page/world-lightest-hammock-stand), with proper engineering... It's all about balancing forces.

One problem you have is finding the right mix for YOU of two competing design criteria. Weight and mass are a plus for hand tool woodworking, whereas you want it light for portability. Don't agonize over this too much. Settle on a design that looks like it will do the trick, build it out of your construction grade material, and use it. If it doesn't work out, figure out what's right and what's wrong with it, fix/rebuild/build anew with that knowledge.

[Lenore Epstein]

One problem you have is finding the right mix for YOU of two competing design criteria. Weight and mass are a plus for hand tool woodworking, whereas you want it light for portability. Don't agonize over this too much. Settle on a design that looks like it will do the trick, build it out of your construction grade material, and use it. If it doesn't work out, figure out what's right and what's wrong with it, fix/rebuild/build anew with that knowledge.
I like this advice best of all, especially because you've made it clear that you want to use the wood you have, are happy to wait to build a traditional permanent bench, and, unlike most Neanders here, you want to be able to break it down. Search for plans for portable benches to find structures that get the most stability with bolts and fasteners, then include a shelf that will accommodate a few 5 gallon water bottles, a bag of sand or gravel, or the like.

[Lenore Epstein]

Andanotherthing: Somewhere in Chris Schwaz's many writings about workbench design he very emphatically states that first time bench-builders should not attempt to reinvent the wheel. There will be plenty of time for experimentation once you know more about what you prefer, but it's better for first-timers to pick a design that has already been in use so you start with something that you know will work.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

That's a nice looking bench! What thickness of stock did you use?

I used what I could find relatively cheap. In my case it was 27 mm thick panels (about 1"). I went this way because I think it is much easier to make from panels since they are pretty flat and have even thickness (almost). Even though it makes it more expensive. But when you are starting and there is simply no bench to build your first bench on...

Design is a mixture of several styles. But mostly I wanted more like English style workbench with aprons that can be used without vises. Top is made out of two parts and third part can be bolted in the middle. Or I can put boxes in the middle for tools. There will be leg vise with linear bearings and walking deadman. Leg vise will be removable to clamp big things in front. Most parts made of two layers glued together: legs, top, stretchers. Then a lot of drilling to bolt everything together. For example, stretchers have 4 bolts on each end. Makes very solid bench. On the bottom I plan to put big clamps for storage and additional weight. But it is already sturdy enough in this size. Here is how it looks now (installing tail vise atm):
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If you want to make very short bench (36" you say), then I would make something like this with no overhang.

[Luke Dupont]

Well, I built my bench! It's still missing a shelf and a toolwell, but the bench is already pretty heavy (by my standards) and very stable. No racking, and after putting shelving liner on the bottom, it doesn't slide around either. I'd say it's in the 50-60lbs range. Maybe lighter, but it feels pretty heavy. I'm not actually sure if I want to permanently attach the tool-well; it's already pretty heavy and a tad bulky to move. The shelf will definitely be removable. I think I'll just have it drop in.

A few modifications I made from the original design:
- Went with a 2.5" top
- Legs are permanently attached, and mounted at the very ends of the bench
- Overall height reduced to about 32"
- Added a second lengthwise stretcher to prevent racking.

It's not that pretty, but maybe I'll post pictures / more details at some point.

> Jim & John: Love that Moravian Workbench! That might very well be the next bench that I build.

> Andre: I like how you used 1" stock. I have to say, I hate working with construction lumber. The rounded corners and ovaled edges make accuracy a pain and are visually unpleasing unless you spend a *lot* of time and energy planing them flat, and the lumber itself is usually pretty rough.
By the way, 36" was the height that I was planning, rather than the length. It was also the distance between the legs in my original design, but the top itself was 3.5' or 42". I followed your / others advise and moved the legs to the very end. That meant that I had to permanently attach them, though, which I did with a lapped joint, glue, and screws.

[Aaron Rappaport]

Chairmaker Curtis Buchanan has a video up here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8nJcB2oav4) where, at about 6:56, he talks about his 2' x 2' carving bench with 150 lbs of sand in it. It looks like it doesn't move while he scorps on it, so I assume it also wouldn't move while he planes on it. Seems like a good solution that's stood the test of time.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

It won't look all that pretty, but hopefully it will be functional, and not kill my back too badly! ;)
The English Woodworker made a nice observation on this point in his premium videos where he builds a workbench. Low bench is for power planing! ;-) Means you don't bent your back but you bent you knees and low the stance. Pretty much like you would if you attempt to push your car or any other heavy object.