General 260-1 vs. Rockwell 46-450

[Aaron Mills]

I posted this inquiry on the turning forum, but I'm hoping that I might get more responses by reposting it in the general forum. Sorry for the double post.

A used Rockwell 46-450 lathe has been on sale for quite a while in my area, and seems to be quite overpriced ($1950 CDN). The seller is including a 6", 12", and 24" tool rest, 2 sets of drive centres, and 2 sets of 4" and 8" face plates. I'm not sure if Delta is still producing the 46-450 (it doesn't appear in any of their literature or on their website), but the construction/appearance of the 46-450 seems quite similar to the General 260-1 ($4200 CDN, new).

I'm curious what the major differences, if any, are between the two machines. Based on the usual 1/2 price of brand new, give or take given the condition, the 46-450 would seem to be within reason if it is essentially the same machine as the General 260-1. This 46-450 has pretty much been unused since it was purchased, the original paint, the machining on the tool rests and centres all indicate minimal use since its purchase. Here is a pic of a Rockwell 46-450 and pic of the 260-1.

http://www.general.ca/machines/gen/lathes/g_260_26020.jpg

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/images/403971/RWHDLathe.jpg

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Aaron

[lou sansone]

they are both nice machines and well made. you should be able to pick up the rockwell for about 500 to 700 if you really look around the used market. I would also recommend the oliver 159 if you are interested in lathes of this size. if you are looking for larger units then oliver patternmakers lathes are second to none IMHO of course

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17078

lou

[Jim Hager]

I bought a 46-450 earlier in the summer for $340. I spent about $130 on parts and just this morning put a new belt on it for $8.49. Seems like the price the seller is asking is a little off the charts. I am very pleased with my lathe, but I've only used it so far to turn out 4 bun feet for a coffee table project that I did a few weeks ago. It is by far the best lathe that I have ever used but I haven't got all that much experience with other machines.

I have looked at the general but it was several years ago at a ww show in little rock arkansas and I don't remember much about it other than it looked good to me. I love machinery :D but then don't we all.

I did see one of the Delta lathes over on the classified ad forum page a couple of days ago and it was much more reasonably priced. Seems like it was $600. They are very heavy though and the shipping might take the value out of the sale.

Here is the link http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24158

[Jim Becker]

The one question not answerd is, what do you intend to turn with these lathes? They were designed primarily as spindle lathes, although they can be used for bowls and vessels within their swing and speed regulation limits.

[Dev Emch]

As usual, the the samo perps have chimed in and they are correct. These are light duty machines designed mainly for ornamental spindle work.

In terms of this "class" of machine, the general 260 is the king of the pile with the old powermatic model 90 sitting right there along side. The rockwell you have found is also in this group as evidenced by the "gap" bed feature which not not all machines have.

The price for the rockwell sounds dealerish. Much to high for that machine. I personally would offer about half that and see where it goes. In the final analysis, this aint no patternmaker!

Right now, my lathe is a 1924 Fay & Scott patternmaker. I need to put a new motor on this thing. But is kinda like a cross between your rockwell lathe, a south bend metal lathe and the conover lathe. It is about 6 to 7 feet long.

My plan is to use this lathe until I find my dream lathe. I am looking for a semi late model of the Oliver Model 20-C Patternmaker lathe with the ball bearing headstock and the Lima drive hung under the belly. Preferably one with a red and white label. This 3000 pound beastie is out there... it just hasnt come home to papa yet.:D

Patternmakers look at life a bit differently. You can use them as you would a regular lathe by using a toolrest in the carriage. Or you can turn very precise turnings as you would in doing patternwork. I actually prefer them to regular woodworking lathes.

My nickel worth...

[Chris Rosenberger]

The Rockwell lathe is a good lathe. That is what I learned to turn on. I now have a General 260 with a 5' bed extension, that I bought used several years ago. It is comparable to Rockwell. The Rockwell lathe you are looking at is over priced.

[Aaron Mills]

I'm not really sure what I'd use it for, but I think mostly for spindle work since I like to build furniture, but I do have some interest in doing bowls and vessels. I'm not really in the market for a lathe at this stage, but I want to make sure I'm educated enough to jump on a good deal for a quality lathe if the opportunity arises. I expected the responses for the 46-450 to be that it was overpriced given how much it sells for on eBay and how much it lists for in a variety of classifieds.

In any event, if I wanted to turn bowls or vessels, what type of limitations would I face with these machines (or even the larger 26020 with a 20" swing)? I'm presuming that the lowest available speed setting would determine a lot of what could and could not be done on these lathes, correct?

Also, how do these lathes stack up against a Minimax T124 duplicating lathe? I've read the threads on SMC about it, and there's one up for auction in a few weeks, so I'm just curious to find out a little bit more about it.

Thanks again,

Aaron

[lou sansone]

most of the lathes we have discussed will have between 20" and 24" swings ( oliver 20 and 25 and american #9). After that you can either turn on the outboard end of the lathe which will provide lots of room or you can think about some of the more exotic special purpose lathes like the stubby from the UK. If you really get interested in vessel turing then there are other domestic lathes like the oliver 22 which are real nice. Here is a picture of a mint one.

enjoy lou

[Vaughn McMillan]

Lou, that picture is insane! I marvel at the class of machinery you, Dev, and some of the other "big iron" guys play with.

- Vaughn

[Bryan Cowing]

Also, how do these lathes stack up against a Minimax T124 duplicating lathe? I've read the threads on SMC about it, and there's one up for auction in a few weeks, so I'm just curious to find out a little bit more about it.

Thanks again,

Aaron
I bought a used T124 last Janurary, great for duplicating spindles. The large bearing support lets me rough out a bedpost section in 10 minutes. The lathe was missing the tool support and face plate so I can't comment on bowl turning with the lathe. I also have a General 260-1, but I have mainly have used it for spindle work. I now use it to touch up and sand the roughed out spindles off the Mini Max. :D

[Dev Emch]

The 22 is one massive patternmaker lathe! The navy often used these in the navy shops for making patterns to make navy stuff used on their "boats" and what not.

Notice the cast iron "FLOORING" in and about this lathe. Those are T slots in the heavy plate which allow you to position the tool post and tailstock. I have come across a couple of these but regretfully, I dont have the need nor the space for one. :mad: Maybe its time to consider building a new shop instead of inhabiting old garage sheds. But then again, the ghosts in the machines are quite happy with the old garage structure. They may be exposed to culture shock if they were thrown into a new tight-ie white-ie modern environment with its dry wall wall coverings and tube lighting.:D

Here is a link to a fay and scott patternmaker lathe. This one is still a bit in the wild but mine is identical to this. I just need to put it back together and put a new motor on it.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=3127

Here is yet another option for you big vessel turners! This is a massive fay and scott version of the oliver 22. I think it may even be larger than the 22 by a wee bit.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=439

As I said, I am on the prowl for an oliver 20-C Lima Drive. I came close to getting one but I had to make a choice between that and my tenoner and now that I look back at it, I should have gotten the lathe. The tenoners are more popular than the dealer led me to beleive and the lathe had no broken parts. As part of the deal, I had to haul this lathe across the country and drop it off in Las Vegas so at least I know where it is. Now, if the new owner would only get bored with it and call me up to see if I want to relieve him of his bordom. But then again, he is also a vintage iron fanatic and gainfully employed by the Las Vegas school district. Short of stepping in front of a big truck, I think that lathe is off the market for the remainder of my days on this orb! Anyway, enjoy this monster!

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=439

[lou sansone]

well aaron


you can see that some of the iron heads get carried away with these machines. I don't own a oliver 22 but like dev said... I was thinking about a way to find space for one. I also agree that the oliver 20 is one of the best machines out there. But for what you are looking at either the delta or general will do. I would strongly lean toward the general just because I think they make a real high quality machine

lou

[Jim Becker]

Also, how do these lathes stack up against a Minimax T124 duplicating lathe? I've read the threads on SMC about it, and there's one up for auc

The MM T124 is a production spindle lathe, but IMHO, not something you will like for turning bowls, etc., even with the proper tool rest...it only has 5 fixed speeds. Spindle city!

[Jim Hager]

Aaron here is my lathe that I got last summer and it is just like the one you have found. It may not have gold cadillac emblems but it does get you there. It is the most solid machine I have ever used and since about all I do is spindle and faceplate work it will suit me just fine and dandy. Unless you are gonna get into bowls or something like that this type lathe is all you need. Don't get too carried away.:D


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[Steve Schoene]

Both lathes are quite good for what they do, with the General being a bit heavier. They are only "light duty" in the context of industrial production, but quite up to any generalist commercial or amateur use. You only need heavier if you expect to spend 40 hours a week turning, or, of course, if you think there is a good chance of wanting to turn large out-of-balance bowl blanks. My Rockwell has handled 36'' table tops with no sweat but these are only 6/4 lumber to start. In amateur use, either can be expected to out last the owner.

[Rick Phelan]

Deleted as too old a post...,