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Jim Marshall
09-17-2005, 5:46 PM
I have two trees in my back yard and I am trying to find out what kind they are. Here is a picture of the leaves from each tree. Can anyone help me identify the trees? Thanks a bunch for any help you can give me.

Jim Becker
09-17-2005, 8:02 PM
Pictures of the bark would be very helpful to cross reference in the books.

Doug Jones
09-17-2005, 10:01 PM
on the left, pignut hickory
on the right, a form of ash


but then again, what do I know

Jim Marshall
09-17-2005, 10:55 PM
Doug, I appreciate your help, I looked on the web and that is what I thought but I wasn't sure.


Jim, I will take a couple of pictures of the bark tomorrow and post them here.


The reason I was asking is the largest tree is leaning toward our neighbor's house about 18-20 degrees and I am afraid it will fall if I don't get it down. The tree is about 24 inches in diameter and looks like there will be some good lumber in it.

Thanks a bunch fellows.

Martin Shupe
09-17-2005, 11:29 PM
on the left, pignut hickory
on the right, a form of ash


but then again, what do I know

Ahem, let me put on my forest dendrology instructor hat. It is a little dusty, as I last taught the class in the fall of 1983.

I respectfully disagree...

The one on the left could be a hickory, but only if the branching and leaf arrangement is alternate. If the leaves are opposite , it is most likely an ash of some sort. If you want me to tell between green and white ash, I would need to see a twig in winter. One has a U shaped leaf scar, and one does not (more oval shaped, IIRC). Don't ask me which one, as I would have to dig our my twig collection. It looks like ash, just from the leaf, but the leaf arrangement will comfirm if I am correct.

The one on the right has a simple leaf, so it cannot be an ash, or hickory, for that matter. It is almost certainly Celtis leavigata aka hackberry. You can confirm my thesis by observing cork like bumps or projections on the bark and twigs.

Here is a simple memory aid to identify trees with opposite branching.

MADCapBigHorse...

Maples
Ashes
Dogwoods
Caprifoliaceae
Bignoneaceae
Horsechestnuts

These groups all have opposite branching, which will rule out all the others that have alternate.

Respectfully submitted for peer review,

Martin, BSF 1983, MSF 1986, Stephen F. Austin State University, forester in a former life.

Jim Marshall
09-18-2005, 3:00 PM
Wow Martin, I am impressed. I wish I could identify trees like that. I took a couple more pictures of the trees and the one you described as a hackberry does have bark like cork with bumps. As you can see, the tree is leaning badly and if it falls it will for sure hit our neighbor's house.

Is hackberry lumber good for anything? Here is a picture of the bark of the two trees.

Martin Shupe
09-19-2005, 10:32 PM
When people find out you studied forestry, they undoubtedly ask one of 3 questions:

1) What kind of tree is this?

2) What kind of wood is this?

3) What is wrong with my tree?

The first one I am pretty good at, at least for southern species. The second one I do ok for American woods. The third one usually stumps me.

Sorry, but your hackberry is not worth anything for lumber. Usually they are rotten on the inside, as it is a short lived tree. If it is old and leaning, you might need to have it taken down, before it falls down. You might try bowls, but I am not a turner, so I'll let them answer that part of the question. Hackberry is also known as sugarberry in some parts.

The other one's bark could be ash, or maybe not. Hard to tell. Check the leaf arrangement, and if it is opposite, it is ash, if alternate, some sort of hickory (Carya spp.) You can tell pretty easily if it is opposite. It will be obvious, as both leaves and branches will be come from the same point on the twig. If you can, take a photo of a small section of twigs with leaves on it, and I can tell you for sure based on that.

Sorry about the hackberry...not good for much lumber-wise. I think the birds eat the berries, if that helps.

Jim Becker
09-19-2005, 10:36 PM
I've seen some pretty nice turnings from hackberry...

Dennis Peacock
09-20-2005, 1:51 AM
Hackberry makes some pretty nice bowls ya know.!!! ;) :D

Bobby Hicks
09-20-2005, 2:08 PM
LOL, Jim and Dennis gave me a chuckle. Seems anyone that turns will use any wood.

I've seen lot's of question along the lines of "what is XXX wood good for?", most often turners pipe-up, "That's good for turning" more than anything else.:D

Jim Marshall
09-20-2005, 2:26 PM
Martin, the leaves are opposite each other so it must be an ash.

I need to get the hackberry tree down and soon because if it does fall, it will for sure hit our neighbor's house. I hate the wood isn't good for lumber but I will save a bite of it for turning. I really appreciate your help.

Thanks a bunch fellows, I really do appreciate all of your input. You are a great bunch of folks.

Jim Hager
09-20-2005, 2:29 PM
[QUOTE=Martin Shupe]Ahem, let me put on my forest dendrology instructor hat. It is a little dusty, as I last taught the class in the fall of 1983.
QUOTE]

Not bad at all Martin!! I agree with you on the species of the trees. Hat may have been dusty but I suspect it still covers your head. I used to teach a forestry class as far back as 1984-1988 and it to has been quite a while since I did much tree ID. I still help some of the kids in biology class when doing their leaf collection.

Hey you might know something about Chestnut. When I get time I want to take some shots of a couple of trees that I suspect are chestnut that are across the road from me. I know they are not supposed to be here but sure enough they are. They key out chestnut, look like chestnut, taste like chestnut and have got a huge crop of burrs this year. I'll post something on them later.

Don Baer
09-20-2005, 2:30 PM
LOL, Jim and Dennis gave me a chuckle. Seems anyone that turns will use any wood.

I've seen lot's of question along the lines of "what is XXX wood good for?", most often turners pipe-up, "That's good for turning" more than anything else.:D

The best kind of wood for turning is free wood....:D

James Carmichael
09-20-2005, 4:29 PM
Very impressive, Martin, I woulda thought hickory for sure, but then I've never seen one in N. TX, even though they're indigenous to the Eastern Cross Timbers where I live. BTW, know anyone down there in Granbury with some Bois D' Arcs they'd like removed?

Another way to ID ash is the fruit, it's the little samaras like you get on silver maples. On the white & green ashes down here, they grow in bunches that remind me of little green chili peppers.