Burl Ive's got to plane

[Prashun Patel]

I have the opportunity to purchase a couple of oak burls from a very nice person (he's probably reading this :))

Anyway, I'll have to flatten these possibly by hand. Does anyone have experience scrubbing and flattening oak burl? Is it difficult vs flat sawn lumber?

[Pat Barry]

All too cute with the titles these days... but Roy demonstrated using toothing planes for walnut burl on the show this weekend and he followed that with a card scraper.

[Jim Koepke]

Hitting it with a scrub plane might not be the best start.

Some drawers in my shop are made with pieces of burl, not sure of the species.

335527

The faces on the ends were overly thick so re-sawing made for the book matched look. These are small pieces. A blade was sharpened to the max. The smoothing was done with the lightest of touch and the thinest of cut.

Your pieces will likely be bigger. It is likely each piece will have its own challenges. Candy, my wife, has done a lot of burl work with her father. She is a believer in power sanding. Thought this morning while the internet was down we watched Salvage Dogs. She saw one of the guys using a large planer on some old wood and kind of gave me the feeling she wants one.

Each piece of burl will be slightly different.

Another thought is every job starts with the finish. Some will use a thick finish, some want a light finish. Think of how your work will be finished and work with that in mind.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

These pieces are 29" x 40" x 2.5" thick.

I'll want them much thinner, about 1". I may just rip them and resaw them on my bandsaw and then plane them with power. These wouldn't be processed by hand for the love of it. I'm interested in being practical for this project.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

I tried to flatten a 100cmx50cm piece of elm burl with a scrub plane. It was about 2 cm uneven. I really tried but in the end I gave up and took it too a large thicknesser at a ship yard.

[Jim Belair]

I have the opportunity to purchase a couple of oak burls from a very nice person (he's probably reading this :))


A bit late but it'll still be a Holly Jolly Christmas purchase.

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun, you may want to leave them thick. Burl is not particularly strong and could break pretty easily at 1" thick. It's similar to planing end grain, so camber helps, sharp blades help and light cuts help.

[Stewie Simpson]

A toothing plane is ideal for working the grain on Burl timber; fine toothed.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/toothed%20foreplane/DSC_0257_zps9b3021fd.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/toothed%20foreplane/DSC_0257_zps9b3021fd.jpg.html)

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Prashun. Your topic headings are the best

[Prashun Patel]

I tried scrub hand planing these into flatness for about 30 seconds before Kazoo appeared on my right shoulder to tell me I was an idiot and my elbows would never survive the ordeal.

So, I resorted to a router planing sled.

This did a great, albeit messy, job of flattening the slabs to consistent thickness. However, they now require some smoothing.

I am going to try 4 tools: 1) LN#4 2) Veritas Small BU smoother 25 deg, tight mouth, 3) LN LAJack toothed blade, 4) Belt sander....

[Brian Holcombe]

LN #4, if that doesn't work then Lagavulin 16 yr.

[john zulu]

If you want to use hand tools. I would use the Jack plane with tooth blade configuration. Then plane down with a high bevel blade. Finishing with a smoothing plane. The last 2 operation you would need to read the grain as you plane. Not that easy to work on. I would like to say a scraper but I don't think it would work well for this situation unless the wood is hard.

[Mel Fulks]

I try to just be prepared for some sanding and don't let "A Little Bitty Tear Let Me Down".

[Bill McNiel]

I would, and have, use my router sled then belt sand similar pieces. It will take you 5-10 minutes. Sacrilege on this Forum but it is easily the fastest way to get quality results IMHO.

[Normand Leblanc]

It's always hard to say by looking at a picture. You seem to have mostly end grain but a few areas do have reverse grain. I don't think I would use a LA plane for this at all. I would try a regular 45° bedded plane like your LN no.4 with a closely set capiron.

In the end, a belt sander will be the quickest route if flatness is not a great concern.

[Brian Holcombe]

Serious reply this time;

Fill the gaps before proceeding, if you are planing to use epoxy, etc, do so before you start planing or it will tear out badly around those holes.

After that, you could do the roughing work with a jointer plane. Plane toward center from the outside, check your progress with a straight edge to ensure you are starting true.

Take the final passes with the #4 plane, also planing toward center.

If you don't mind the scallops, leave them, if you can't stand the scallops then sand with 320 after you are finished planing.

[Mike Allen1010]

LN #4, if that doesn't work then Lagavulin 16 yr.

Ahh, always an excellent plan!

[Malcolm McLeod]

LN #4, if that doesn't work then Lagavulin 16 yr. I might skip one of these steps.

[Prashun Patel]

I used a belt sander to knock down some of the ridges.

I then used a toothed blade plane to do the bulk of the work. That worked reasonably well. It was very illuminating to see how deceptively aggressive the belt sander can be. It made the surface out of flat (the circled areas), which made planing out the scratches from the belt sander ironically harder than if I had skipped the belt.

I tried using the smoothing planes on the resultant surface, but it was prone to tear out. So, I will from here just use sandpaper and a random orbit sander.

[Pat Barry]

How big is that slab? I think (I know) if I as you, I would proceed as you last posted. I'm thinking for a coffee table or something similar a good old fashioned sanded surface (up to 220 grit for example) will be plenty good. I don't hate myself enough to try and deal with all that end grain with a plane, I'm just not up to that much sweat and tears.

[Andrew Hughes]

That looks like a narley piece of wood.High five for not shying away from it.
You probably already know this but I'm going to bring it up anyways.
Once sandpaper grit gets down into the pores it makes handplaning very frustration.Unless your low on aggravation and like planing wood with sand in it.:confused:

[David Dalzell]

I have flattened several (about 6-7) small Calif Black Oak Burls. Small as in jewelry box tops. Finished size about 6" x 8" to 10" x 12". I had no problem with them. I took very fine shavings using the Veritas bevel up smoother.

[Randy Karst]

16 year old Lagavulin? That sounds good with or without Burl Ives!

[Tony Zaffuto]

A toothing plane is ideal for working the grain on Burl timber; fine toothed.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/toothed%20foreplane/DSC_0257_zps9b3021fd.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/toothed%20foreplane/DSC_0257_zps9b3021fd.jpg.html)

Nice plane Stewie! Who built it?

[Stewie Simpson]

That's 1 of my own traditional wedge abutment builds Tony. An iron oxide stain was used to darken the wood. Hardwood body, provides more weight and wear resistance than Beech.

Stewie;

[lowell holmes]

This is the Burl Ives I am familiar with.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0412322/bio

[Prashun Patel]

No why didn't I think of that, Lowell? ;)

Nice plane, Stewie.

Planing was a nightmare. I did not realize this is basically a giant end-grain cutting board, except harder! I'm pulling out the pigtails on this one. ROS to 600!

[lowell holmes]

I just could not help myself. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

No why didn't I think of that, Lowell? ;)

Nice plane, Stewie.

Planing was a nightmare. I did not realize this is basically a giant end-grain cutting board, except harder! I'm pulling out the pigtails on this one. ROS to 600!

It's definitely not easy. In the burl section of that walnut slab I just was a real workout. If you decide to continue, take very light cuts and keep the blade super sharp.

I expect you'll still want to sand at the end so that the finish lay evenly, but I think it's more work to sand it than to plane it, at least until you've removed the tearout.

[Tony Zaffuto]

That's 1 of my own traditional wedge abutment builds Tony. An iron oxide stain was used to darken the wood. Hardwood body, provides more weight and wear resistance than Beech.

Stewie;

Very nice!

[Patrick Chase]

LN #4, if that doesn't work then Lagavulin 16 yr.


I might skip one of these steps.

Or reverse the order. It's sort of like shooting pool: You're more skilled after a few drinks (as far as you can tell).

[Patrick Chase]

Nice plane Stewie! Who built it?

TTC is how Stewie brands tools he made himself. Very nice toother, Stewie!

[Kevin Hampshire]

Prashun, I'm not a big fan of abrasives or wood dust but I've been known to use my 80 Grit gouge while turning on the lathe. Usually does the trick in a very predictable way.

Some times discretion is the better part of valor, sanding or whatever.

[Prashun Patel]

Mostly done. What a bucking bronco this piece has been.
I struggled about how to connect the two pieces. They are not perfectly symmetrical in size so I am inclined to leave them separate.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nicely done! Keep the split, looks good.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Very nicely done Prashun. What color are you going to paint it?

On a more serious note, and admitting that you and Brian have a much better aesthetic eye than I, I was wondering how a strip of ebony filling the gap would look . . . . Or perhaps a brass strip??? Again, just ideas; my taste is in my mouth, so feel free to reject Out-of-hand. Patrick

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks guys. I wondered the same thing, Patrick. In fact I thought about filling it with a 1/8 strip of plexiglass. I like the brass and evony ideas too. I will live with this for a while and perhaps do that later.

[Brian Holcombe]

Bridging the gap with butterfly joints does look nice to my eye.

The gap serves a functional purpose so I would leave it be, ahead of any other sort if detail.

[Prashun Patel]

Brian, i thought of that too. I was contemplating putting one near each end (in the 'forehead' and 'mouth' of the face). What's your vote? I have two large iron butterfiles that I was thinking to make use of.

[Jim Koepke]

I have two large iron butterfiles that I was thinking to make use of.

Is that another bit of jocularity?

Could it be you are too young to remember Iron Butterfly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIVe-rZBcm4

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, i thought of that too. I was contemplating putting one near each end (in the 'forehead' and 'mouth' of the face). What's your vote? I have two large iron butterfiles that I was thinking to make use of.

Two seems odd to me, I would like to see five of them.

I would save those two to stitch a crack.

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, dontcha know that I love you? Thanks for the suggestion Brian. I will play with that.

[Glenn de Souza]

Very nice! I like the sweeping curve in the apron and the angle at which it meets the legs. You obviously took a lot of care.

Some people might say the showstopper burl top pretty much obscures the structure below it in a low table like this, but I like to think the burl invites you in to explore the piece and discover the other details. When you take the care you did, you're not letting that intrepid explorer down. I'd like to hear where you end up on joining the two hemispheres. Whether you go with butterfly keys, brass, ebony, it will surely look stunning.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Glen!

I am flattered you noticed the base. I feel exactly as you do. A guy can wear a nice suit and tie, but it's the shoes that impress me the most ;)

The base is white oak from my back yard. I dyed it brown and black and top coated it with a waterbased poly.

I turned the bottom 2/3 of the tapered legs on the lathe. I used a rasp and block plane to create faceted faces, and to complete the transition to the stretcher joint after glue up. The stretchers are half-lapped. The joint was too large to use a coping saw, so I cut the shoulders with a tenon saw, and then chopped out the waste with a mortise chisel. I was surprised how fast that went. Chopping with the grain is so easy; and this white oak seemed to split very easily.

I decided to go with a 1/8" gap, with rounded over edges. I put a couple floating tenons in the joint to keep the two halves aligned.

[Brian Holcombe]

Very nice! Beautifully done!

[Christopher Charles]

Prashun, beautifully done. I especially like the leg details and think the split looks great as is. To my eye the burl speaks for itself.

[brian zawatsky]

That's a great piece. Very nicely executed!

[David Eisenhauer]

Nice, nice work. How much does that thing weigh?

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the comments. David, it's not heavy. I'd say about 30-40 lbs. The table is only about 40" diameter.

[Pat Barry]

I think the top looks sweet just the way it is - I wouldn't want to put some contrasting butterfly pieces in to mar / distract from the nice appearance. Question - how is it attached to the base now? Is it just the cross-frame? Maybe two inconspicuous battens from below is all I would add if support is needed.

[Rick Moyer]

LN #4, if that doesn't work then Lagavulin 16 yr.


Serious reply this time;

Fill the gaps before proceeding, if you are planing to use epoxy, etc, do so before you start planing or it will tear out badly around those holes.

After that, you could do the roughing work with a jointer plane. Plane toward center from the outside, check your progress with a straight edge to ensure you are starting true.

Take the final passes with the #4 plane, also planing toward center.

If you don't mind the scallops, leave them, if you can't stand the scallops then sand with 320 after you are finished planing.


Brian, i thought of that too. I was contemplating putting one near each end (in the 'forehead' and 'mouth' of the face). What's your vote? I have two large iron butterflys that I was thinking to make use of.
With my limited woodworking skills, all I've got out of this thread is wanting to make scollops, drink scotch and listen to "In a godda da vida". :)

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah! That is what first came to mind for me as well....I can hear the preacher from the Simpson's pronouncing it 'Eye-Ron Butterfly'!

[Prashun Patel]

I never felt good about the support of the top.

I routed three channels and then inserted angle irons to help.

It survived the winter and spring months so far. Let's see how it fares through the summer.

I had previously finished the top with Arm R Seal, and then rubbed out with Abralon pads. People swear by Arm R Seal, but I found it to look like plastic. I am sure it can be done to better effect, but it was too much work for me. In addition, the glossy surface caused bright spots during the day, under sunlight, and at night under the direct overhead light.

So today, I sprayed it today with Satin Enduro Clear Poly (waterbased) and much prefer the result. I certainly lost some visual depth in the finish, but the blinding reflections are also gone, I think this works better for me here.

[Andrew Hughes]

Nice looking burl table.
I'm also a fan of general finish.My favorite is the water based Laquer it's so easy. I see you only finished one side you rebel you.:cool:
Nice work as usual.

[steven c newman]

3rd picture does look like it has an"attitude"? Almost like a ticked off rodent? maybe just seeing things......

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks but I did finish the bottom. It just wasn't sanded as well and I sprayed a couple coats of clear poly only. No oil. That's why it looks whiter.

[John C Cox]

Very nice.

these projects look so simple... Oh I could just knock something like this out in a weekend.... Yeah buddy - go try. I am guessing that getting the finish right took at least a couple weeks... One run or an ugly and its sand and recoat again..

I agree on the satin finish. While a full gloss really pops the grain - it can offen look lumpy, plasticky, and distracting... Not to mention act like a mirror.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work Prashun!