Opinions? LV Skew Rabbet vs Jack Rabbit

[Brian Hale]

Hey folks

If you needed a rabbit plane, which of these two would you choose?

My average rabbit is ~24" long by 3/4" wide and I've grown weary of the personality my Stanley 78 has, mainly the shifting blade if I hit a hard spot or adjust the depth of cut. I'm leaning towards the Jack Rabbit because of the nicker on each side and simple blade sharpening.

Brian :)

[Curt Putnam]

I have the skew rabbit although it hasn't seen that much use. The smaller and more more nimble skew rabbit will easily do your nominal rabbit - as will the jack. But the jack is bigger and heavier. I think of the jack as more of a panel raiser although the skew can do that too. Do you need finesse or beef?

[Stew Hagerty]

I looked at both of those. First I decided that the Jack Rabbet was too big for my purposes. Then I thought about the Skew Rabbets. I really liked the fact that they had skewed irons, however they were each only good in one direction. That meant I would need to get the set. Now let me say that I am a huge Lee Valley fan! I do, however, have some Lie Nielsen tools as well and they are of outstanding quality. So I look at what Lie Nielsen had to offer. Their solution was a straight blade, open both sides with a nicker on each side as well. A typical LN upgrade to a traditional Stanley design. Since it could be used either direction, it was roughly half the price of 2 LV planes. I absolutely LOVE THIS PLANE! If I didn't already have a low angle block plane, I never would buy one. I use this all the time.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/rabbet-block-plane-w-nicker

[Brian Hale]

........ Do you need finesse or beef?

Good question. I normally like a heavier plane. Example.... I have several #4's with aftermarket blades/chipbreakers that cut fantastic. Then I got a 4 1/2, added LV blade and chipbreaker, tuned it up and the 4's sit mostly unused. I added 3 more that are setup for different cuts and there is always one on the bench.

[Brian Hale]

I also looked at the LN offering (it's not off the list yet) and it has all the advantages you mention, especially not having to buy 2 planes, although cost isn't that big a factor. However, I do have a block plane problem. Over a dozen sitting on the shelf, all sharp and willing to work. Can't convince myself to buy another.

I also feel like I have more control when I can get 2 hands on the plane

[Mike Cherry]

I went with the skew rabbet. Right hand version only. Reason being is that in the event that I need to go against the grain for a rabbet, I don't mind a little tearout in an unseen surface.

For the sake of argument, let me offer a couple observations about the skew rabbet. First off, the front knob is next to useless. That doesn't affect the operation really, it's just kind of odd. The tool is obviously well made, but if you have larger than average hands I could see it being uncomfortable. The tool does have a nicker, but I have yet to do a significant amount of cross grain rabbets with the tool to offer any comments on its effectiveness.

The one argument that one could make for the Jack rabbet, is that the mass could be really helpful. The bed is angled @ 15 degrees and uses the same blades as the rest of their bevel up family of planes. Personally, I have the bevel up Jack and if the mass is anything like that, it would make raised panels a lot of fun. Being able to swap blades between their jack, smoother, jointer, rabbet, and shooting plane is a nice feature.

[Brian Hale]

I should add that i'm uncertain if the length of the jack rabbit would be a hindrance, it's the same length as my 5 1/2's

[Brian Hale]

Mike, i also have the bevel up jack and it's one of my favorite planes, i use it as a shooter all the time. The jack rabbit weighs 1/2 lb more than the jack,sweet! It uses a different blade than the other BU planes.

I often make boxes with a one piece fitted lid rabbited on the underside so i have 2 cross grain cuts to make and tear out just looks crappy. I keep eyeing up the tablesaw for that. (did i just say the T word????)

[Mike Cherry]

Brian, in that case I would say the Jack rabbet. You can customize the angle for no tear out and can work the tool on either edge of the board without the need for an additional tool. What type of lumber do you like to use? That could also sway your decision.

[John Schtrumpf]

I have the skew rabbit although it hasn't seen that much use. The smaller and more more nimble skew rabbit will easily do your nominal rabbit - as will the jack. But the jack is bigger and heavier. I think of the jack as more of a panel raiser although the skew can do that too. Do you need finesse or beef?
I am going to go with Curt on this one.

I have the Veritas jack-rabbet, plow, skew block, medium and small shoulder planes. For a 3/4" inch rabbet I use my plow plane then a shoulder plane for any cleanup and/or tweaking. For cross grain or short rabbets I tend to use the skew block plane. At 3/4" you would be getting close to the size, that I might use the jack rabbet, but I haven't done a larger rabbet.

I make smaller projects (not big furniture), the jack rabbet is my jointer. It is great for jointing the edges of boards up to 3 or so feet long (never did a longer board). The fence is under slung, so I can set it to balance the plane on an edge. I have also done a few beveled edges with the jack rabbet.

[Jim Koepke]

The penalty for inaccuracy is more work

This reminds me of a manager I worked with many years ago. He often said, "we seem to never have time to do it right but always have time to do it over."

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hey folks

If you needed a rabbit plane, which of these two would you choose?

My average rabbit is ~24" long by 3/4" wide and I've grown weary of the personality my Stanley 78 has, mainly the shifting blade if I hit a hard spot or adjust the depth of cut. I'm leaning towards the Jack Rabbit because of the nicker on each side and simple blade sharpening.

Brian :)

Brian, for rebates one uses a rebate plane. You can make them with a shoulder plane with a opened mouth (using fingers as a fence), or you use a moving fillister plane, such as the LV Skew Rabbet plane or a Record #78/778.

I wrote a glowing review of the LV Jack Rabbet, but referred to it as a Swiss Army Knife. It is a very good plane and it can do so much. In practice, I prefer planes that do one thing very well. The forte of a the Jack Rabbet is planning a wide surface against a wall, such as a raised panel. It may work on a narrow rebate, but it would be cumbersome.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Hey folks

If you needed a rabbit plane, which of these two would you choose?

My average rabbit is ~24" long by 3/4" wide and I've grown weary of the personality my Stanley 78 has, mainly the shifting blade if I hit a hard spot or adjust the depth of cut. I'm leaning towards the Jack Rabbit because of the nicker on each side and simple blade sharpening.

Brian :)

How long are your largest rabbets?

If the average rabbet is 24" that I'd guess that implies some larger ones in the mix as well. If that's the case then I'd say you're in the sweet spot for the Jack Rabbet and the L-N 10-1/4 (another good option that you didn't list). They're both Jack-sized rebate planes with straight blades and nickers on both sides. The L-N is a bit shorter but is a BD plane, which means you have the option of using a close-set cap iron for tearout control. In the Jack Rabbet you'd use higher bevel (and therefore cutting) angle to manage tearout. I have both...

The L-N block rabbet that somebody else mentioned is on the small side for the work you describe. The skew rabbet is probably workable if perhaps a bit shorter than ideal, provided your longest rabbets aren't too much bigger than that 24" average.

I disagree with the characterization of any of these planes as jacks of all trades. If you read Derek's Jack Rabbet review you'll see that he engaged in some impressive contortions to make it serve all purposes for the box he was building (for example he made a wooden cheek so he could shoot with it IIRC). IMO that proved more about the breadth of his skills than the flexibility of the plane. Like the 10-1/4 the Jack Rabbet is an example of what Stanley used to call a carriage-maker's rebate plane, and the one thing it's extremely good at is making rabbets of that scale, which is basically what you describe.

FWIW my personal preference these days is for the 10-1/4. I prefer BD planes for this sort of thing.

[Patrick Chase]

Brian, for rebates one uses a rebate plane. You can make them with a shoulder plane with a opened mouth (using fingers as a fence), or you use a moving fillister plane, such as the LV Skew Rabbet plane or a Record #78/778.


I wrote a glowing review of the LV Jack Rabbet, but referred to it as a Swiss Army Knife. It is a very good plane and it can do so much. In practice, I prefer planes that do one thing very well. The forte of a the Jack Rabbet is planning a wide surface against a wall, such as a raised panel. It may work on a narrow rebate, but it would be cumbersome.


There's a reason why Stanley called jack-sized flush-cutting planes with nickers "carriage maker's REBATE planes". The Jack Rabbet is very much a rebate plane, as are the 10-1/4 and 10-1/2. They're just optimized for larger work than the 78.

A 24" x 3/4" rebate is wide enough for the carriage makers' planes to shine IMO. You wouldn't want to go too much narrower than that of course.

[Derek Cohen]

There's a reason why Stanley called jack-sized flush-cutting planes with nickers "carriage maker's REBATE planes". The Jack Rabbet is a rebate plane, as are the 10-1/4 and 10-1/2. They're just optimized for larger work than the 78.

The relevant pice of information in the OP's original post was "3/4 inch" wide rebate. That should immediately exclude planes wider than about 1".

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Hey folks

If you needed a rabbit plane, which of these two would you choose?

My average rabbit is ~24" long by 3/4" wide and I've grown weary of the personality my Stanley 78 has, mainly the shifting blade if I hit a hard spot or adjust the depth of cut. I'm leaning towards the Jack Rabbit because of the nicker on each side and simple blade sharpening.

Brian :)

This is mostly an add on to what Derek said.

I even made a video to show how to cut a rabbet with a side rabbet plane:

https://youtu.be/1-d2CLdgaLs

I used to make rabbets using a Stanley 45. It took many tries and a lot of frustration to learn the ways of my Record #778 (similar to the Stanley #78 but better, imo). Now that I have it figured it is my go to rabbeting plane. The point of this is it was easier for me to start making rabbets with a more complicated tool. It took me a bit of time to get to the finer points of the #778. It does a better job of rabbeting than the #45.

My starting place on setting the blades side projection on the #778 is to slightly loosen the lever cap and press the side of the plane on my bench. The depth stop needs to be out of the way for this. This usually sets the blade cutting along the edge or right behind the nicker. If you want more projection, sheets of paper can be used to lift the plane body for more projection. Setting this is something one will have to figure out how to do for them self if they want ANY rabbet plane to work well.

My #10-1/2 is a short jack rabbet. Good for some things, not good for starting a fixed rabbet without scoring a start line. This is how it would be done without a fenced rabbet plane in the past. Score a line, carefully angle the plane to cut a trough in the waste next to the score mark. After a few passes of cutting the trough the plane body can be brought back to vertical a few degrees with each pass until the plane becomes level and the desired depth is achieved.

short video?

The other thing to avoid difficulties is to score the work if needed. Sometimes it is also better to work from the other side. I know some folks have a hard time switching to working left handed, sometimes that is the best way to work the grain. It is not as hard as it feels when you first start. It is like learning what you already know all over again. Only you are quicker at 'feeling' your mistakes. That would be an interesting survey, have everyone try using a #5 left handed and find out if others can feel the cut being off.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

The relevant pice of information in the OP's original post was "3/4 inch" wide rebate. That should immediately exclude planes wider than about 1".

Regards from Perth

Derek

The 78 and Veritas Skew Rabbet have 1.5" and 1-5/8" blades respectively, so if your argument above is correct then they're both unsuitable to cut 3/4" rabbets. That's quite a remarkable claim.

I've cut long 3/4" rabbets with both the 10-1/4 and the Jack Rabbet. They do just fine.

[Patrick Chase]

My #10-1/2 is a short jack rabbet. Good for some things, not good for starting a fixed rabbet without scoring a start line. This is how it would be done without a fenced rabbet plane in the past. Score a line, carefully angle the plane to cut a trough in the waste next to the score mark. After a few passes of cutting the trough the plane body can be brought back to vertical a few degrees with each pass until the plane becomes level and the desired depth is achieved.

There are other, often easier ways: Batten, shop-made fence, etc etc. Also note that I specifically suggested the L-N 10-1/4, which has nickers FWIW.

[Mike Cherry]

Not to put words in Derek's mouth, but I think he was simply stating that if the average width is 3/4" the Jack rabbets 2 1/4 inch blade is overkill. The skew plane would certainly be more nimble than the larger rabbet planes.

Mr Jim, you stated you used a 45 for rabbets in the past. I wonder what caused you to go looking for a different tool for the job?

[Jim Koepke]

There are other, often easier ways: Batten, shop-made fence, etc etc. Also note that I specifically suggested the L-N 10-1/4, which has nickers FWIW.

Of course, with or without nickers having a plane with a fence means not having to make one for a plane that doesn't.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Not to put words in Derek's mouth, but I think he was simply stating that if the average width is 3/4" the Jack rabbets 2 1/4 inch blade is overkill. The skew plane would certainly be more nimble than the larger rabbet planes.

Woodworkers use wide planes to take narrow cuts all the time, and for a multitude of reasons. In this case I personally prefer to use a longer plane to cut very long rabbets, even if that means it's wider than it needs to be. IMO the difference in usability between a Skew Rabbet at 1-5/8" and a 10-1/4 at 2-1/8" or a Jack Rabbet at 2-1/4" isn't all that huge, though obviously opinions vary.

I think that there are almost always multiple ways to achieve any given task, and our own choices are often more arbitrary and subjective than we pretend.

[Derek Cohen]

The 78 and Veritas Skew Rabbet have 1.5" and 1-5/8" blades respectively, so if your argument above is correct then they're both unsuitable to cut 3/4" rabbets. That's quite a remarkable claim.

I've cut long 3/4" rabbets with both the 10-1/4 and the Jack Rabbet. They do just fine.

Patrick,

Mike expressed my thoughts quite well. A Jack Rabbet is overkill - by wide blade I really meant wide body. A moving fillister or a shoulder plane are much narrower and shorter, and the centre of gravity is just so different to the jack rabbet. I am not sure how much furniture/rebates you have made/cut, but I sure would like to see where you get your opinions.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Of course, with or without nickers having a plane with a fence means not having to make one for a plane that doesn't.

jtk

Yeah, I was making a separate point about the nickers. Sorry about not being more clear.

I personally prefer a batten to a fence where possible, because I get better control of angle that way (provided the plane's side is square to its base). That also may be why I don't worry so much about balancing a wide plane on a narrow rabbet. So much subjectivity... :-)

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick,

Mike expressed my thoughts quite well. A Jack Rabbet is overkill - by wide blade I really meant wide body. A moving fillister or a shoulder plane are much narrower and shorter, and the centre of gravity is just so different to the jack rabbet. I am not sure how much furniture/rebates you have made/cut, but I sure would like to see where you get your opinions.


For the 10-1/4 and the Jack Rabbet the blade width is the body width (2.125" and 2.25" respectively). For the Skew Rabbet it's the projected blade width (i.e. body_width = blade_width*cos(skew)), or 1.5". These are not monstrous differences as such things go.

For furniture-scale work I typically use my skew rabbets, because those rabbets are usually shorter (and often shallower) than what the OP asked about. Note that EVERY response I've posted has included the disclaimer "for long rabbets...".

I get my opinions the same way most people do - by trying stuff and seeing what works for me, and I think I've been careful to couch them that way in this thread.

By constrast, I feel that you don't acknowledge or even consider the possibility that there might be multiple ways of doing things, and that makes these discussions more contentious than they should be.

[Reinis Kanders]

Depth stop of skew rabbet is very useful if one wants to quickly bang out some rabbets.
I recently did a bunch of 3/4" x 6' rabbets and skew rabbet was quicker than jack rabbet because of the depth stop. Advantage of jack rabbet is that it can be used in both directions, but that requires moving the fence and readjusting the blade a bit to make sure that it protrudes a right amount.
Tear out does not really matter that much in a rabbet and can be cleaned up afterwords with a rabbet block or what not.
If one is making boxes and cabinets I would get skew rabbet before jack rabbet and would also get the pair of veritas skew block planes over the time. Jack rabbet is nice to have and very nice to look at, but I use it much less then the skew. I am no expert though.

[Chuck Hart]

I have the LV skewed rabbet and like it a lot

[Kevin Hampshire]

Brian,

I have the Jack Rabbet, both of the Skew Rabbets and both of the Skew Block planes. I tend to do smalls (boxes etc.) up through tea/occasional tables. Hopefully I'll get to do a larger case piece in the near future.

My RH Skew Rabbet gets the most use, followed by the LH Skew Rabbet, then the Jack Rabbet and finally the Skew Blocks. The Skew Rabbet is just an easy plane to grab. The Jack Rabbet is pretty heavy...and my most used plane is a LN 5 1/2 followed by a 4 1/2 with a HAF so I'm not against heavy or large planes.

My thought is, if your Stanley 78 is the right size but wrong performance, then the Skew Rabbet would be a great fit. Everything about the Skew Rabbet is a large step up from your current Stanley.

[Matthew Springer]

I have both an LN Jack Rabbet and a new LV skew rabbet. Skew rabbet all the way. Just my opinion having cuts literally ones [sic] of rabbets with the planes. (OK, I';m mostly a tool collector at this point).

I find the jack rabbet is hard to hold square and I need a fence with it. I also find I can take a much more aggressive cut with the LV skew rabbet. I just dont use the #10's ability to cut from both sides all that often.

[Stew Hagerty]

"iiiiit's wabbit season!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Bill Rhodus]

I have the LV skew rebate and jack rabbet and would suggest a woodworker get the skew first. The skew will do a good job for almost all furniture rebates. If you are a timber framer or want a rabbet plane to make raised panels, get the jackrabbet.

[Mike Holbrook]

I bought the Skew Rabbet recently. I wanted to make raised panels and a few other jobs. I am using mine more than I thought I would. Using it today with the fence to chamfer hand rails. I just bought one right handed. Mine has the PM-V11 blade and works very well cutting most grains I have encountered so far. I like the skewed blade so well I am thinking about buying a shooter and or block plane with a skewed blade.