Need suggestions for under $4K Laser

[Robin Powlus]

I am a retiree with a very small woodworking business where I sell wood toys, Christmas ornaments, and kitchenware. I would like to add laser engraving to my products, and I have used an Epilog Helix with CorelDraw at a local college. One of my main uses would be to engrave initials or a picture onto a cutting board as shown here...

335409

I would want at least a 12x20 work area. The ability to do marquetry or engrave glass is a big plus. I may need a rotary attachment for some applications. I will need something under $4K, though closer to $3K would be better. I would also consider a used machine. I'm looking for suggestions for brands and models. I am in Northeastern, PA.

[Bill George]

Hard to get a decent new laser for under 3K, you might either check your local Craigslist or maybe Ray at Rabbit USA he might have a used trade in. I sold my Chinese machine a Gweike Storm 500 to a member here last year and I think it was for about 2K and it had a new 40 watt tube. I also put some time into it to get it working better. Go to the Classifieds section on here and check. Please stay away from Ebay machines.

[Keith Downing]

I am a retiree with a very small woodworking business where I sell wood toys, Christmas ornaments, and kitchenware. I would like to add laser engraving to my products, and I have used an Epilog Helix with CorelDraw at a local college. One of my main uses would be to engrave initials or a picture onto a cutting board as shown here...

335409

I would want at least a 12x20 work area. The ability to do marquetry or engrave glass is a big plus. I may need a rotary attachment for some applications. I will need something under $4K, though closer to $3K would be better. I would also consider a used machine. I'm looking for suggestions for brands and models. I am in Northeastern, PA.

Hey Robin, this question gets asked in one form or another here about once every month. So there is a lot of information out there if you do some searches and read through some of the posts from the last 6 months.

As for a direct answer, I think most here will agree that your budget is somewhere between really tough and impossible for a quality easy to use setup.

The first option would be a direct import Chinese laser. Some have had success with these, but they tend to be the more technically inclined among us. You can search through the threads and get more information on importing a machine and the pitfalls to avoid.

The next option would be a modified Chinese laser from a US company like Boss laser or Rabbit laser. But you will likely need to increase your budget by about 25-30% to get one of those new. I myself have a Boss and like it. Many others here recommend Rabbit laser. Both offer warranties and technical support which can be priceless.

The final option would be to find a very small, very used US machine like an epilog or trotec. But I have seen very few for less than $5,000 so you may have a hard time going that route as well.

Almost everyone here would recommend NOT even looking at chinese lasers on ebay. That is another topic that you can search here that has been beaten to death.

Good luck with your search. I spent more than I originally intended to as well getting into this, but couldn't be happier.

[Gary Hair]

For the work you are doing and for the budget you have, I would suggest outsourcing the work. $4,000 will get you a lot of lasering and you don't have to buy the machine, learn how to use it, maintain it, troubleshoot it (a $4k machine WILL need troubleshooting). Another alternative would be to find a makerspace type of place and use their laser. Either way will be more beneficial in the long run and will give you access to a much better machine than you could ever dream of buying within your budget.

[Keith Downing]

For the work you are doing and for the budget you have, I would suggest outsourcing the work. $4,000 will get you a lot of lasering and you don't have to buy the machine, learn how to use it, maintain it, troubleshoot it (a $4k machine WILL need troubleshooting). Another alternative would be to find a makerspace type of place and use their laser. Either way will be more beneficial in the long run and will give you access to a much better machine than you could ever dream of buying within your budget.

I was thinking the same thing as Gary, but wanted to give you an answer to your original question first.

With regards to your budget: if you have no interest in doing more laser work than for the pieces you are creating in your workshop, then I would say the $4k investment for a small (possibly inadequate setup), the extra $$ that adds up for the extras like a rotary tool, chiller, air filtration, etc, and then most of all the time you will invest to setup the system and learn how to use it will really add up. I'd say the value of all that will be closer to $6-10k even if your machine itself comes in under $4k.

You could have all your engravings done professionally by someone else for years for that capital investment if you only plan to do a few pieces a week. And you don't have to clear the shop space or invest anything up front.

If on the other hand you plan to really get into laser engraving and invest the time and energy to build it as a business itself; then I can guarantee you will not want to be using a $3 or $4 thousand dollar setup. You just won't be able to get the results you want or consistency you need to run a business IMHO.

[Keith Winter]

If $4k really is your budget I'd suggest hiring Gary, Mike or any of the other fine engravers on here for your job or find a local engraver to do work for you while you save up for a decent laser. $4k isn't enough for a reliable machine. You can buy an eBay special for $3k or $4k but you will quickly find the machines are unreliable and prone to issues at that price point, you will also have to upgrade many of the parts as they will sell you and undersized chiller plus you will have a thousand or more in install costs as Keith pointed out. Finally you will have zero support when something goes wrong and at that price range things are bound to go wrong. I suggest reading and searching the forum for pitfalls of such an investment.

[Robin Powlus]

I appreciate all the comments so far and hope for more. I did have a 6 hour class on the Epilog Helix, and just really loved doing the laser engraving. I recently received $3K for unused sick days at retirement, and was hoping I could find a cheap, but reliable, laser. I was hoping someone was happy with one of the new cheaper ($3K) models I keep seeing (CNCShop (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B012F0LKIS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1SHXTV4PPQ6M8&coliid=I3SHZH8TSBGQH1&psc=1), Ten High (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BKWP5P2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1SHXTV4PPQ6M8&coliid=I18W9GZHSD0I1W&psc=1),...). Would love to hear more input.

[Keith Downing]

I appreciate all the comments so far and hope for more. I did have a 6 hour class on the Epilog Helix, and just really loved doing the laser engraving. I recently received $3K for unused sick days at retirement, and was hoping I could find a cheap, but reliable, laser. I was hoping someone was happy with one of the new cheaper ($3K) models I keep seeing (CNCShop (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B012F0LKIS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1SHXTV4PPQ6M8&coliid=I3SHZH8TSBGQH1&psc=1), Ten High (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BKWP5P2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1SHXTV4PPQ6M8&coliid=I18W9GZHSD0I1W&psc=1),...). Would love to hear more input.

I will let others weigh in here since you've heard a lot from me already.

The one thing I will add is that those lasers you linked fall into the category of "ebay" lasers in that they're not sold by a known manufacturer or in a brick and mortar store. They unfortunately aren't some "new" machine, they are cheap machines. Search ebay lasers on the forums and you will see at best they will be a headache, at worst you bought a $4k paperweight.

Looking at the first two you linked you can see that a lot of the "reviews" are fake. Take the first machine: there are not many really positive reviews over a year, then in 10 days there are four with 5 stars, most of which came in a 2 day period?!? And all from users that have only reviewed 1 or 2 products and always given 5 star ratings. Not a good sign.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but you were working on a roughly ~$20,000 machine with the Epilog. You can't expect anything near that for $4,000. The closest would be the US resold chinese machines (Boss / Rabbit).

[Bert Kemp]

Go Glowforge:D oops sorry my bad:eek:

[Gary Hair]

Go Glowforge:D oops sorry my bad:eek:

Except for the "it doesn't exist yet" part, it would suit his needs quite well!

[Robin Powlus]

I appreciate the great help. I would hate to make a $4K mistake.

[Jerome Stanek]

The one from Amazon may be a better bet as Amazon has a return policy.

[Clark Pace]

So I have a laser, but I also have a small desktop CNC. It's an ebay Look up 3040 / 3020 cnc. I pretty happy with mine, and it will do some things that my laser won't do well. It's good for smaller parts. Also I can cut a nice 3/4 acrylic or wood(multiple passes). But it cust wood, vinyl records, acrylic. It's way under 4k.

Just a thought.

[Matt McCoy]

If you have a Rockler near you, you might consider dropping in to take a look at this:

http://www.rockler.com/full-spectrum-h-series-20-x-12-desktop-co2-laser-engraver-cutter#turnto-reviews-content


(http://www.rockler.com/full-spectrum-h-series-20-x-12-desktop-co2-laser-engraver-cutter#turnto-reviews-content)

[Robin Powlus]

I may end up with a CNC. Do you know why it says "Can be controlled only by desktop computer, not suitable for laptop" for the 3040? I don't know why there would be a difference, unless you have to add a card in your desktop.

[Robin Powlus]

If you have a Rockler near you, you might consider dropping in to take a look at this:

http://www.rockler.com/full-spectrum-h-series-20-x-12-desktop-co2-laser-engraver-cutter#turnto-reviews-content

Does anyone have any experience or comments on the Full Spectrum laser? I have dealt with the reseller, Rockler, a lot and know they are a solid company.

[Clark Pace]

I may end up with a CNC. Do you know why it says "Can be controlled only by desktop computer, not suitable for laptop" for the 3040? I don't know why there would be a difference, unless you have to add a card in your desktop.

So mine is connected via a parallel port. But you can double check the in formation on that. Also I think it's a power thing. Generally desktop parallel ports can take bit more power. But other than that I'm not sure. Check youtube see if anyone is using a 3020 with a laptop. I think I saw some.

[Clark Pace]

You are opening up a can of worms. Check old threads. There are a lot of opinions about FS

[Bert Kemp]

Stay far far away from full spectrum, sure theres a couple guys here that have then and there gonna tell you how great they are. PLEASE DO A SEARCH on them here .



Does anyone have any experience or comments on the Full Spectrum laser? I have dealt with the reseller, Rockler, a lot and know they are a solid company.

[John Blazy]

So the big question is "are you a shop guy or just a guy needing to do engraving?" If you are a shop guy, then I don't think you will regret spending the extra $ on a good $6K laser from rabbit or Boss or FS. You would be amazed at what you can find uses for your laser that will save you time and money on. Im a shop guy that fabricates tons of parts, jigs and final products, and I can assure you that I should have bought a laser ten years ago. Would have saved lots of labor on parts that I used to cut by hand for miscellaneous parts. But that depends on how involved in the shop you are.

A laser will also open up new product horizons for you as well, once you get hooked on it. I am biased, of course, because my laser is used every day since I bought it.

Sure you can sub out the work like others have suggested, but don't forget all the hassle. I used to sub out all my laser work for about three years, and all the gas money I spent driving my panels to the laser cutter, and all the approvals of drawings, and shipping samples for approvals and proofs were a colossal waste of time.

[Robin Powlus]

I'm going to contact Rabbit Laser on Monday and see if they have any decent used lasers around $4K. If they don't, I will probably go with the 45W Full Spectrum H Series. They're around $4K, which is within my budget, the $6K lasers are not.

I read a lot of posts in various forums about FS, and I concluded that support and some lasers were bad up until a couple years ago, and then things seems to have improved considerably. Many fewer complaints in the past two years, and many happy customer posts. I believe FS has gotten their act together.

[Robin Powlus]

Sure you can sub out the work like others have suggested, but don't forget all the hassle.

I don't want to sub out the work due to costs and turnaround time. Plus I would need the ability to adjust my images if things are not coming out as expected.

[Jerome Stanek]

I know someone here had a problem with Automation Technologies but my laser has been rock solid and the customer service was great. One of the complaints was that John is hard to understand but if you ask he has some great people to help. I did pick mine up and received some training.

[Matt McCoy]

Hey Robin! I was going to throw in my two cents, but I think you hit the nail on the head with your assessment.

[Bill George]

I don't want to sub out the work due to costs and turnaround time. Plus I would need the ability to adjust my images if things are not coming out as expected.

I guess I agree with you, and if you have an order come in late in the day and you can get it done ready to ship the next day is your Sub willing to work late and on short notice? The FS is vastly over priced at Rockler and if you purchase one from Rabbit USA, Boss or even Automation Tech at least you have a US phone number to call. Also pay with a credit card and you have some leverage, even if costs you a little more.

[Matt McCoy]

I guess I agree with you, and if you have an order come in late in the day and you can get it done ready to ship the next day is your Sub willing to work late and on short notice? The FS is vastly over priced at Rockler and if you purchase one from Rabbit USA, Boss or even Automation Tech at least you have a US phone number to call. Also pay with a credit card and you have some leverage, even if costs you a little more.

FSL has phone and email support too.

[Jerome Stanek]

FSL has phone and email support too.


But do they answer

[Bill George]

But do they answer

And if past experiences as noted on here, do they care? I think Rockler would make them toe the mark however.

[Robin Powlus]

Hey Robin! I was going to throw in my two cents, but I think you hit the nail on the head with your assessment.

Thanks Matt. I did spend over 8 hours reading laser forums last weekend, and noticed most of Full Spectrum's complaints were 2013 and prior, and there are a lot of happy FS users out there. There are shops that are running 2-3 of the FS lasers and are considering buying more. I really like that the bottom comes off so I can do some of my larger items (18" round cutting board). And they appear to be the only option in my price range other than used.

[Doug Hoffman]

Rockler is a little higher, but they include a couple of things that do not come standard buying direct from FSL.
I think they are about $300 higher, but include extras worth $250. Plus, if you have a store near you can check it
out, and pick it up. I looked at the FSL H series. I thought it would be nice to be able to take off the bottom and
laser table tops and cabinet doors. I found out there are 17 screws to take out to remove the bottom. That kind of
changed my mind about buying one.

[Matt McCoy]

Thanks Matt. I did spend over 8 hours reading laser forums last weekend, and noticed most of Full Spectrum's complaints were 2013 and prior, and there are a lot of happy FS users out there. There are shops that are running 2-3 of the FS lasers and are considering buying more. I really like that the bottom comes off so I can do some of my larger items (18" round cutting board). And they appear to be the only option in my price range other than used.

Sounds reasonable. Your cheapest option is to directly import a Chinese machine. As a retired person and someone that does the proper diligence, it might be something to consider. If you're handy (and it sounds like you are) you could navigate the idiosyncrasies of owning one, and if you're patient, the time and work to have it dropped at your door. Don't expect much support, but they're pretty simples machines and can be serviced with off-the-shelf (read: inexpensive) parts.

Just wanted to pass along that the floor of the FS Gen 5 isn't very quick to remove or replace. I ended up making a base with an adjustable floor.

[Robin Powlus]

Thanks Matt. I just ordered the Full Spectrum 45W.

Note - When I called this morning (7AM their time) sales were not in yet, but Support picked up and helped me with my sales question. I think they're really working on beefing up support.

[Roy Sanders]

Hey Robin

I bought my Nice-Cut for less that 4k including shipping. It takes a little work, it can be done. Ive had my machine for over a year and it works great for what you want to do. If you do not mind learning something and doing a little homework you will be surprised what you can import on your own, I did not use a broker either.
Here is my contact. mention me and your won't get a discount; you will receive personable customer care.

Jinan Nice-Cut Mechanical Equipment Co.,Ltd
Tel:+86-15275129141 (wechat , whatsapp)
SKYPE: Jennifer-han691
msn: Jennifer-han691@hotmail.com (Jennifer-han691@hotmail.com)
mail: nicecut11@nice-cut.com (nicecut11@nice-cut.com)

Roy

[Keith Downing]

Thanks Matt. I just ordered the Full Spectrum 45W.

Note - When I called this morning (7AM their time) sales were not in yet, but Support picked up and helped me with my sales question. I think they're really working on beefing up support.

Glad you found something that would work for you! Please let us know how the setup goes and what you like and dislike compared to the other machine you've worked with.

Welcome aboard!

[Jerome Stanek]

Thanks Matt. I just ordered the Full Spectrum 45W.

Note - When I called this morning (7AM their time) sales were not in yet, but Support picked up and helped me with my sales question. I think they're really working on beefing up support.


I thought you were against a Chinese laser FSL import from China

[Robin Powlus]

I thought you were against a Chinese laser FSL import from China
I would be against a direct import with chinese instructions and no support. Assembled and supported in USA is fine.

[Jerome Stanek]

When they say assembled they mean they put their own controller in a Chinese laser.

[Matt McCoy]

When they say assembled they mean they put their own controller in a Chinese laser.

If you were knowledgeable about the Gen 5, you would know that your last couple assumptions are incorrect.