T-track instead of dogs

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I'm really giving some thought to just mounting four long tracks down the top of the bench and to heck with dogs altogether. You could mount clamping jigs for bending, make all sorts of planing stops, have mounting points for accessory tops.... the list goes on. Sure, there is the issue of the errant chisel strike, but I always use a sacrificial piece under my work anyway. I would route it a bit lower than the top so you could still flatten or refresh the top a few times before you had to redo the track. It would make the top very versatile.

Imagine that T-track was invented in Roubo's lifetime. I bet he would think it was the greatest thing. What are your thoughts?

[Jim Koepke]

I like having dogs to use with the vises. The dogs are even handy as a planing stop without the vises.

I would likely want to still have dogs if there was to be a T-track.

jtk

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My thought is to put a T Track strip on the vise jaws as well. Use these for dogs: http://www.rockler.com/rockler-short-stop-for-rockler-t-track-system
You could slide the dogs up to the workpiece first, then only open the vise a little bit before clamping and therefore prevent racking if you're clamping only on one side of the vise. (I'm using an end vise to edge clamp things for surface work in this scenario)

I like the T Track hold-downs for small work like inlays. There's just so much function and so many options. I have to be honest that most of what's holding me back is my traditional side that hates to see blue T-Track on a beautiful otherwise classic Roubo, but I'll get over it. I would still have a few dog holes primarily for holdfasts, which are quicker, easier, and bigger for when you just need to "WHACK" and hold something real quick.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

... But please poke holes in the idea, pun intended. I posted this to get both positive and negative thoughts. I really like the idea of clamping a formica top for when I sharpen, or so many other options.

[Jim Koepke]

I like the T Track hold-downs for small work like inlays.

One's personal needs and uses are where we tend to make a bench our own. My bench works fine for what I do. Anyone who is doing different work will likely benefit from a different method of work holding.

Can a T-track be used to form a planing stop?

Don't forget the pictures.

jtk

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I share your theory! Yes, a planing stop could be a strip of wood that locks into the T-track. This will be a split-top so there will also be the middle flip-up planing stop per Benchcrafted.

[glenn bradley]

I went down this road and came back. The pressure exerted by a screw are tremendous in relation to the pressure applied to it. That is, I had to be so careful when applying pressure with a vise that it became obnoxious; the track would distort or even pull up out of the groove.

If you are using track mounted devices to apply the pressure, the danger is mitigated. I am not a ham-handed,slack-jawed brute. I routinely preach less pressure and more finesse when woodworking. When using a vise though, the difference between snug and yikes to a piece of extruded aluminum is about 1/4" turn ;-)

[Frederick Skelly]

My only concern would be fastening the track to the bench tightly enough that it doesn't lift, shift, etc when you apply pressure in some direction. I realize 1000 companies sell tables with t-track, so there must be a way. But on my bench, dogs and hold downs get a lot of pressure put on them and I'd probably tear up that track. But that might be poor technique on my part. Something to consider anyway.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I went down this road and came back. The pressure exerted by a screw are tremendous in relation to the pressure applied to it. That is, I had to be so careful when applying pressure with a vise that it became obnoxious; the track would distort or even pull up out of the groove.

If you are using track mounted devices to apply the pressure, the danger is mitigated. I am not a ham-handed,slack-jawed brute. I routinely preach less pressure and more finesse when woodworking. When using a vise though, the difference between snug and yikes to a piece of extruded aluminum is about 1/4" turn ;-)


Now that's why I asked the question. This is good constructive criticism. (Frederick as well). I did some tests with my crappy little vise but was wondering what a twin screw LN vise is going to do to T Track. Well darn. I still am going to put T Track on either vise jaw to mount clamping fixtures like for steam bending. I would hate to do the whole table and have it not work. I'll do some more tests with a bigger vise.

[Reinis Kanders]

Ugly, and unless you really bolt them down they will not hold as well as holdfast or dog hole based planing stop. I also toyed with an idea of t-track and installed one on the apron, but it ended up just being an eyesore.
I just made these little workholders from the april's FWW http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/these-bench-puppies-have-bite.aspx
Works really well for working on legs, edge chamfers, etc.

[Frederick Skelly]

Ugly, and unless you really bolt them down they will not hold as well as holdfast or dog hole based planing stop. I also toyed with an idea of t-track and installed one on the apron, but it ended up just being an eyesore.
I just made these little workholders from the april's FWW http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/these-bench-puppies-have-bite.aspx
Works really well for working on legs, edge chamfers, etc.

Thanks Reinis. That's a very helpful tip!

[Jeff Ranck]

Ugly, and unless you really bolt them down they will not hold as well as holdfast or dog hole based planing stop. I also toyed with an idea of t-track and installed one on the apron, but it ended up just being an eyesore.
I just made these little workholders from the april's FWW http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/these-bench-puppies-have-bite.aspx
Works really well for working on legs, edge chamfers, etc.

These are on my list as well. Great job on them. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Jeff Ranck]

... But please poke holes in the idea, pun intended. I posted this to get both positive and negative thoughts. I really like the idea of clamping a formica top for when I sharpen, or so many other options.

If you like T-Track for certain items, is it possible to make something that is otherwise held in your vise between your dogs that has t-track and a work surface sized to the work? I'm thinking of small inlay here. Of course then you have something else to store, which I hate.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm really giving some thought to just mounting four long tracks down the top of the bench and to heck with dogs altogether. You could mount clamping jigs for bending, make all sorts of planing stops, have mounting points for accessory tops.... the list goes on. Sure, there is the issue of the errant chisel strike, but I always use a sacrificial piece under my work anyway. I would route it a bit lower than the top so you could still flatten or refresh the top a few times before you had to redo the track. It would make the top very versatile.

Imagine that T-track was invented in Roubo's lifetime. I bet he would think it was the greatest thing. What are your thoughts?

I've thought the same thing many times, but my thinking is now morphing into getting a piece of 3/4" thick MDF, and recessing the T-tracks into it. I haven't really thought about whether I would leave the MDF loose or fasten to my bench in a few places with screws.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

If you like T-Track for certain items, is it possible to make something that is otherwise held in your vise between your dogs that has t-track and a work surface sized to the work? I'm thinking of small inlay here. Of course then you have something else to store, which I hate.

That would be plan B. Plan C is one half of the split top to have two rows of t track. It is great for holding inlay pieces and small stuff.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I've thought the same thing many times, but my thinking is now morphing into getting a piece of 3/4" thick MDF, and recessing the T-tracks into it. I haven't really thought about whether I would leave the MDF loose or fasten to my bench in a few places with screws.
MDF doesn't do well in my humid climate. I like the white pre-laminated ply you get at Home Depot, but only for clamping fixtures.

[Prashun Patel]

You could (irony fully understood) mount your t-track to a large sheet of MDF, and use pegs to hold it in place with the bench's dog holes.

I am partial to dog holes because that's how I've 'grown up'. I trust them for hard planing. The other thing I like is that once the right accessories are made like a planing stop or bench hook, the fixed position of the dog holes makes setting and resetting them up precisely for your ergonomics quick. With t-track the flexibility can be a pain when what I really want is repeatability. I feel that with my drill press which HAD t tracks for the fence.

I mean, I think t-tracks were great when I was making a wide variety of things. Nowadays, I tend to make the same kind of thing over and over again, and appreciate repeatability.

[Shawn Pixley]

My bench is embarassing compared to most / all. It is layered MDF with an oak edge. I have a quick release vise and lift it onto sawhorses when I need to use it. I recessed two T-tracks on it in addition to dog holes. I have planing stops and other accessories that work with the tracks (square jigs for glue ups, etc.). I have hold downs and dogs for the dog holes. I use both the T-track and the dog holes.

I will build a new and better bench. I debate about the T-track for the new bench. Maybe in the infill for the split top?