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Mark Gibney
04-05-2016, 10:22 PM
I'm thinking of getting a wooden plow plane, and Sandusky was written up by Paul Sellers as being about the best of the wooden plows.

Looking at what's on offer on ebay - Ohio Tool, Taber, Miller, Howland and others - they all look so similar to me I can't figure out why Sandusky is more highly regarded by Sellers.

Any insights? Any opinions on wooden plows?

lowell holmes
04-05-2016, 10:35 PM
I just looked at a Sandusky plane on a web site. It is a very expensive plane and most likely does stand out above the rest.

Ebay plow planes that I've seen don't compare. I have one and it does good. It took me a while to learn the ropes with it.

I went back and looked at the plane again. I thing the wheel adjustment is what makes the plane stand out.

My plane has wedges that lock the arms in place. It is difficult to make small adjustments, often requiring a tap from a small hammer.

Mark Gibney
04-06-2016, 11:02 AM
Thanks Lowell, maybe I'll hold off until i can handle one at a swap meet.

Jim Koepke
04-06-2016, 11:15 AM
Mark,

My first plow plane is a wooden model, if memory serves it is branded Invicta. Most of the time it sits unused on a shelf, being surpassed in performance by every one of my metal plow planes.

jtk

Derek Cohen
04-06-2016, 11:36 AM
I'm thinking of getting a wooden plow plane, and Sandusky was written up by Paul Sellers as being about the best of the wooden plows.

Looking at what's on offer on ebay - Ohio Tool, Taber, Miller, Howland and others - they all look so similar to me I can't figure out why Sandusky is more highly regarded by Sellers.

Any insights? Any opinions on wooden plows?

Mark, wooden plough planes have been around for a very long time, which is an indication that they work. Modern metal plough planes, such as the Veritas Small Plow, work better because they are easier to adjust, easier to set up and, most importantly, more reliable with regard to the fence settings.

The best plough design incorporates a bridle fence, such as this Mathieson ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild_html_m7ad430e9.jpg

It serves to lock the fence parallel, which is much harder with other fences, such as wedges or screw types.

I built my own bridle fence plough, and of course since I did this, I have seen a number of Mathiesons for sale on eBay. They sell in the $350-500 range. Of course, you do not need to spend anything like that for a wooden plough, but the cheaper they are, the less sophisticated will be the fence system. All work - anything can be made to work - but some designs work better than others.

I had the opportunity to try the new HNT Gordon plough plane - wow, is that a heavy plane. Essentially an infill. I think Brian has one. They are 4 figures. Terry Gordon does excellent work.

My recommendation is to look seriously at the Veritas Small Plow. It is a fantastic plane.

If you want to have a go at a bridle plough (mine did not cost me more than the blades and wood. I made some of the brass parts and obtained the rest from a derelict plough), then here is a link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild_html_m4741b4d5.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

Chris Hachet
04-06-2016, 12:53 PM
Mark,

My first plow plane is a wooden model, if memory serves it is branded Invicta. Most of the time it sits unused on a shelf, being surpassed in performance by every one of my metal plow planes.

jtk


I have yet to get a plow plane, for this exact reason. I will get the LV, or if I wait another ten years, LN will come out with theirs.

steven c newman
04-06-2016, 12:57 PM
I need to get this one fixed back up...
.335296
of course, it was made back in the 60s.......1860s....

Steve Voigt
04-06-2016, 9:42 PM
I'm thinking of getting a wooden plow plane, and Sandusky was written up by Paul Sellers as being about the best of the wooden plows.

Looking at what's on offer on ebay - Ohio Tool, Taber, Miller, Howland and others - they all look so similar to me I can't figure out why Sandusky is more highly regarded by Sellers.

Any insights? Any opinions on wooden plows?


Mark,

I have no idea what Sellers is talking about, but Sandusky was a very large company, mass-producing planes in the era when wooden planes were declining in quality. Other similar companies were Ohio Tool and Auburn plane. I'd think of them as the Fords and Chevys of the plane world at the time--mostly very serviceable and usable planes, but not that special.

Now, just like Ford and Chevy, Sandusky made a wide range of planes with different price points. A run of the mill Sandusky plane was pretty ordinary, whereas a rare center-wheel plow is worth many thousands of dollars at this point.

If I were buying an old wooden plow, I would be completely unconcerned about brand, and totally focused on condition. The only thing that matters is getting a plane in good shape, and that's much trickier with a plow than with a bench plane (and even that can be tricky!)

Unless you are an expert, I would avoid buying a plow on Ebay. Get one from a reputable dealer such as Patrick Leach, Lee Richmond (best things) or Josh Clark (hyperkitten).

Zach Dillinger wrote a couple good articles on using and acquiring old woodie plows. You might want to look those up.

Jim Koepke
04-06-2016, 10:04 PM
A run of the mill Sandusky plane was pretty ordinary, whereas a rare center-wheel plow is worth many thousands of dollars at this point.

Also beware of something being rare or high dollar does not indicate a suitability for use.

jtk

Steve Voigt
04-06-2016, 10:13 PM
Modern metal plough planes, such as the Veritas Small Plow, work better because they are easier to adjust, easier to set up and, most importantly, more reliable with regard to the fence settings.



I was a little hesitant to comment, because I have little knowledge of metal plows. But this statement strikes me as pretty indefensible. First off, I can't think of a "modern metal plow" other than the Veritas! All the other metal plows I can think of, like the various Stanley and Record models, are well-known, or rather infamous, for their problems with fence slippage. And of course the Veritas has been known, until now, to have the same problem. You even wrote an article about fixes meant to address this problem! I'm aware that they have recently redesigned the plane and offered a retrofit, and I certainly believe Rob Lee if he says the problem is fixed. But to say that "metal plows are more reliable with their fence settings" is just not true. (Edit: I confused the depth stop with the fence on the Veritas here. Please see Derk's post. Sorry, Veritas!)

Actually, a wooden screw-arm plow has a fence that locks FAR more securely than any metal plow I've seen. There is no chance, once the nuts are locked down, that the fence is going to move. Now you may say, as many others have, that these fences stink because they don't automatically maintain parallelism. To me, that is a problem in the mind of the user, not with the plane. It is easy to set a screw-arm or wedge-arm plow parallel with a bit of practice. And in actual use, in the context of building stuff, it's a non-issue. If you are building a bunch of drawers, how often do you need to reset the fence?

The bridle plow that Mathieson made, and that you very skillfully copied, is a nice design but it was a complete commercial flop. Planemakers sold boatloads of two designs: the wedge-arm and the screw-arm. Nobody would pay the extra money for the bridle plows, not to mention the many more Rube Goldberg-esque designs for maintaining parallelism, because they didn't see that as important.

Anyway, I digress. What was my point? Oh yeah, in a nutshell: metal ploughs cause more problems than they solve. Maybe the redesigned Veritas has finally beaten the problem, but it's early days yet.

Mark Gibney
04-06-2016, 10:27 PM
Well this is a great lot of information to go on, and my wife wonders why I can spend some evenings staring into my computer.

Since I posted this I've seen an ad on criagslist out here for a Stanley 46 with all it's cutters. Trying to contact the seller to take a look, but if I get it I'm still curious enough to get a woodie too and compare them.

Jim Koepke
04-07-2016, 1:35 AM
Well this is a great lot of information to go on, and my wife wonders why I can spend some evenings staring into my computer.

Since I posted this I've seen an ad on criagslist out here for a Stanley 46 with all it's cutters. Trying to contact the seller to take a look, but if I get it I'm still curious enough to get a woodie too and compare them.

With over a half-dozen plow planes already in my shop, if a Stanley #46 became available to me at a price to my liking there wouldn't be any hesitation.

jtk

Derek Cohen
04-07-2016, 2:01 AM
All the other metal plows I can think of, like the various Stanley and Record models, are well-known, or rather infamous, for their problems with fence slippage. And of course the Veritas has been known, until now, to have the same problem. You even wrote an article about fixes meant to address this problem! I'm aware that they have recently redesigned the plane and offered a retrofit, and I certainly believe Rob Lee if he says the problem is fixed. But to say that "metal plows are more reliable with their fence settings" is just not true.

Hi Steve

The fence system is absolutely fine on the Small Plow. What was redesigned was the depth stop (which was also the subject of my "fix"). I have limited experience with metal ploughs other than the Stanley #45 and #46, and the Record #044 and #043, all of which I either own or owned. They set up without any issues.

I have used a number of wedged wooden ploughs over the years, and the common fault was that the fences were "floppy". That is, they needed to be adjusted and tightened individually to have the same offset from the skate. Bridle plough planes are not common, and understandably they would have cost most (since their mechanism is more complex to build). However this design remains the best I have seen in a wooden plough - and the reason I went to the trouble of making one for myself (since Barrett and son were charging $2500 for their version!).

Personally, I have no trouble adjusting the blades in a woodie with a hammer (I've built and used enough of these over the years, and continue to do so). However there is no getting away from the fact that most metal plough planes use an adjuster, which some will find considerably easier than a hammer. All-in-all, for most, a metal plough is more reliable and easier to use than a wooden plough.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Kees Heiden
04-07-2016, 3:30 AM
I have a couple of plowplanes in use at the moment, which really is a bit much for the limited amount of grooving I do! (But they were cheap and interesting...)

I have sold a Stanley #50, not really happy with the double skate design, too much to go wrong. And I didn't like the adjuster, it is really crude and you need to relieve the clampnut before you can make an adjustment. It also can't cut very deep grooves.

I use a Record 044 a lot. Nice plane, easy to use. The adjuster actually works, allthough you still need to relieve the clamp. It can go pretty deep, which has been usefull at times. No problem at all with a slipping fence, maybe because the fence arms are a little rusty? The depth adjuster is a bit flimsy.

A British wedge arm wooden plow. Wonderfull machine! I had to repair quite a bit, but it is now in full swing. The fence is square with the body again, the fence arms are not sticking anymore, the wedges are wedging again, the skates are inline again etc. I have 8 irons, but it is a mixed bag from various makers. Almost all of them have a different taper! They still work allright, allthough the wedge doesn't work perfectly with all of them. So, I ordered a set from one maker from ebay yesterday (20 pound!). I'm looking forward to using them.

The British wooden wedge arm plow works nicer then the Record 044 again. It somehow is easier to keep upright and it seems to have more "power". Easier to take thicker shavings. I have no problem setting the fence, it calls for some going back and forth, but it is not complicated. I understand why the woodworkers of yesteryear didn't want to invest in more elaborate designs to keep the fence parallel to the skate. A plow was expensive enough to start with.

I also have a German screw arm plow, but it only has one iron, and I haven't used it other then a few test cuts yet.

Steve Voigt
04-07-2016, 8:35 AM
Derek, my apologies for confusing the depth stop with the fence on the Veritas. You're absolutely right.

Regarding woodies, as I said before, what you refer to as a "fault," I see as a trade-off. A mechanism that isn't automatically parallel can be simpler and/or more robust.

Mark Gibney
04-07-2016, 10:36 AM
Wow, Derek, that is a bee-ute-ti-full (as Sam Maloof would have said) plane, and as usual you use some extraordinary Aussie woods.

You laid out the procedure very clearly and I've book marked the page to give this a go when I have six months of weekends without anything else to do.

I suppose the first thing to do is to buy a set of the irons. Thanks!