Pen turning finish / CA glue

[Scott Cenicola]

Hi all, I went to the woodworking show a few weeks ago with my 9 year old son. He turned a pen for the second year in a row and long story short, I now own a HF mini lathe.

I picked up all the necessary supplies to turn a pen, except for finish. I.did pick up a small bottle of stick fast ca polish http://m.woodcraft.com/product/850951/stickfast-ca-polish-gloss-2oz.aspx on a trip to Woodcraft. I wasn't impressed with the finish, but im not sure I even bought the correct product.

Now to my question. Im looking for a basic finish that I can buy locally. One that looks good, doesn't need to be top of the line. One that is fairly simple to apply, so my son can do it. I've done some internet research and as you would expect the options run far and wide. I would rather not drive to woodcraft, and dont want to mail order until I figure out what I like so I can make a larger purchase of all the necessary supplies. I've read that boiled linseed oil may be an option. I also read all super glues are ca glues, and they can be used in the same method at a lower expense. I also read spray on poly is an option, but I'm thinking too messy and long dry times.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Ronald Blue]

Woodcraft carries General Finishes and an easy one is their "Wood Turners Finish". It's a wipe on finish and buffs to a nice shine. Everyone Has their own preferences. HUT also has a friction finish that works well. As for CA finishes usually 2-3 coats with thin CA and then at least a couple more with medium thick CA. One thing though is you need to finish it just like acrylic with multiple steps up to 12000 grit and then buff with jewelers rouge. This will give a glassy smooth high gloss finish. Welcome to the vortex.

[Stan Calow]

Did you watch a demo at the wood show? CA glue finish technique requires a lot of surface preparation, polishing and buffing to get that high gloss finish. It takes some practice to get the routine right, but there are a lot of steps you have to got through. I did a batch of 75 pens this way last year. I used only MEDIUM CA glue, not the thin stuff and not the thick gel. The kind from hardware store is fine as long as its medium. Thin gets messy and dries too quick to be forgiving.

[Ronald Blue]

Ron Brown will tell you to use thin CA as the first couple layers. Also get some accelerator to speed up the cure. As Stan says there is a learning curve with CA but for some woods the results can be stunning.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

Hi all, I went to the woodworking show a few weeks ago with my 9 year old son. He turned a pen for the second year in a row and long story short, I now own a HF mini lathe.

I picked up all the necessary supplies to turn a pen, except for finish. I.did pick up a small bottle of stick fast ca polish http://m.woodcraft.com/product/850951/stickfast-ca-polish-gloss-2oz.aspx on a trip to Woodcraft. I wasn't impressed with the finish, but im not sure I even bought the correct product.

Now to my question. Im looking for a basic finish that I can buy locally. One that looks good, doesn't need to be top of the line. One that is fairly simple to apply, so my son can do it. I've done some internet research and as you would expect the options run far and wide. I would rather not drive to woodcraft, and dont want to mail order until I figure out what I like so I can make a larger purchase of all the necessary supplies. I've read that boiled linseed oil may be an option. I also read all super glues are ca glues, and they can be used in the same method at a lower expense. I also read spray on poly is an option, but I'm thinking too messy and long dry times.

Thanks in advance for your help.


you don't want to drive to WC, and you don't want to mail order. that leaves VERY limited options.

First off - you have to do one or the other, WC or mail order

Second - like most other "***-Fast" products - Stick Fast is garbage. ***-Fast tends to copy other peoples stuff, then cheapen it, sell it cheaper, then offer no (or little) customer service. it is commonly accepted among avid penturners that their CA is inferior to others. It either doesn't work "right" - or it crazes & cracks while others do not.

Third - the BEST CA glue I have had luck with is from Exotic Blanks (dot) com - go there, look up "Wooden Wonders CA Glue". If your WC carries "Satellite City" - they also work well, but cost more.

finally - CA finish is a bit of experimentation in finding the method that works best for you. I can use the (sort of original method) of applying CA using a blue paper towel with success. I can use bags from pen parts with success. My favorite method is using craft foam as the applicator.

turn your pen. depending on how good you are...start sanding. finish sanding about 600 grit - DRY - NO WATER.

apply 2-3 coats of thin CA - smoothly. use a wipe of accelerator between coats. (I've also had great luck using Satellite City aerosol accelerator with Wooden Wonders CA)

apply 2-3 coats of medium smoothly (again, a wipe of accelerator between coats)

sand the CA smooth (because you didn't apply it smoothly as above) - using wet/dry sandpaper - WET, up from 220 to about 400 or 600

then switch to MicroMesh from 1500 to 12000 grits

then hit with an acrylic buffing system (blue buffing compound)

your pens will SHINE.

I've done hundreds of pens with this method - both one-offs and production orders.

after turning and sanding, I can do 1 pen - start to finished product - in less than about 3 minutes. that includes fumbling around finding paper, dropping MM on the floor, etc.

production orders are faster because I'm more organized.



and finally - if you want to skip CA finishes...don't use BLO. Don't use shellacs or friction finishes. Use Wipe on Poly (which has it's own challenges - not to mention may not stand up to daily handling) or General Finishes "Woodturners Finish" - again has it's own challenges.

[Brice Rogers]

I got some hands-on help from an experienced pen turner on using CA glue.
0. Pre-sand pen to about 400 grit
1. 5 coats of medium CA
2. Apply with a small (e.g. 1.5 x 1.5") paper or shop towel. Must be non-cotton
3. Apply the CA (2 or 3 drops) to the paper and coat pen, when spinning at low - - like 200-300 rpm. Apply to the underside of the pen and run from one end to the other and back twice. Do this within about roughly 2 seconds. The medium CA starts to tack in about 5 seconds. If you take too long to do this, the paper will be glued to the pen or your fingers.
4. Use a fan to blow away the CA fumes
5. Wait a couple of minutes between coastings and check surface with pen spinning and use your fingernail. If it drags, wait. If you use your finger rather than your nail, don't be surprised if it tears off a patch of skin. Sand between coats starting at around 400 grit and going up to maybe 1500 or 2000 grit. Don't sand through the finish and don't press too hard to avoid heating. If the CA gets hot, it will liquefy or at least get sticky.

[William C Rogers]

The one thing you need to get is the micro-mesh pack 1500-12000. IMO micro-mesh is necessary to get any type of acceptable finish. Micro-mesh will last for years. Just use a shop vac to clean or it can even be washed. For finishing you can make your own friction polish, there are online instruction on how. The CA finish can be done with many ways. Each has their own way. I only use thin CA and put on 12-15 coats. I let each coat air dry and after the last coat I spray a little accelerator before sanding. This works for me. I think it provides a more durable finish. The blue paper shop towels work well for applying CA, but must be the blue ones.

[Aaron Craven]

As with every finishing question, you're going to get a different opinion from every turner. There seems to be a general consensus that CA is the most durable finish for pens, but I'm sure that's not universal. Some use waxes, some use friction polishes, EEE ultrashine followed by shellawax seems to be a popular combination, etc, etc...

I'm still experimenting and trying to figure out what works best for me. The best results I've gotten so far is using the CA/BLO technique (for each coat, you put a drop of BLO on your applicator -- I just use blue shop towels -- rub that into the work piece, then put a drop of CA right on top of the oil on the towel and wipe it across the piece one time. Stop and allow that to dry for a few seconds, repeat to desired finish). This leaves me with a semi-gloss finish that feels nice, but I cannot achieve a full gloss finish with it, and I have concerns about the durability of the result. One of the things I'm coming to understand (at least for me) is that it's not enough to apply a pure CA finish and allow it to cure (as you could with say wipe-on polyurethane). You have to get a deep enough coat of finish, then sand and polish it somehow. You can do this with a number of techniques, but the most common three I've heard of are micromesh, various polishing compounds (various brands, but they're all basically a very fine abrasive in some sort of liquid suspension), or a buffing system (Beall is the name that's usually associated with this).

[Bob Bouis]

If this is for a kid, he's not going to have the patience to do a CA glue finish -- most of that involves very patiently sanding and polishing the finish, without going through, which can be hard to do for an adult. Plus, the glue is nasty and maybe even a little dangerous.

For a kid I'd recommend either a shellac friction polish (as mentioned above), which is easy and shiny but not very durable, a wipe-on polyurethane, which you're probably familiar with, or just plain oil (boiled linseed oil works) and wax.

[Scott Cenicola]

Forget to mention I also have a full cart on craft supplies usa ready to go. I got the abranet sheets and the micro surface pen finishing set, as well as blanks, bushings, kits, some ca and an excellorator. I think I incorrectly explained my situation earlier. I don't mind mail order, I just didn't know what type of finish to go with and I didn't want to pay and wait for something I wasn't sure would work for me.

[Scott Cenicola]

Looks like I accidentally deleted my previous post. We made a pen last night and learned the hard way about Bob's comment. My son got a nose full of ca glue odor. Think I'll stick with blo and wax for now. Is my johnsons paste wax ok, or should I upgrade to one of the wax's on craft supplies?

Speaking of the vortex, I snuck back in the shop to make my own pen last night after my son went to sleep. Its very cool to be able to make a project start to finish in one night. I usually make furniture and flat stuff, but this is pretty fun.

[Bob Bouis]

Johnson's is fine (though I'm sure it wouldn't be most here's first choice) but you won't get too much of a shine with paste waxes.

The best alternative would be a bar of carnuba wax, which you would apply with a buffing wheel (you can get one that mounts on your lathe). The easiest way to mount a buffing wheel on the lathe is to get a drill chuck for your lathe (Harbor Freight sells one for about $15) and a wheel with a mandrel intended for a drill ($10 or so on eBay).

The good thing about the buffing wheels is that you can use them to buff other finishes, too, including superglue or wipe-on poly. I prefer buffing wheels to micromesh sheets, because they are much cheaper in the long run and probably easier to use. Popular buffing compounds include the "white diamond" you can get from woodworking supply stores and automotive buffing compounds (but not the wax types with silicone in them).

[Jim Bell]

Hi Scott. If you are using an oily wood suck as Cocobola I've found that sanding to a high grit finish and simply using any kind of oil burnished in at speed makes a slick finish that wears well. It is safe and quick. It only takes a minute or so and for the most part can be used immediately upon assembly. Hope this helps.

[Brice Rogers]

BTW, with CA glue, always wear a face shield. Also, wearing an older pair of glasses and having a fan to blow away the fumes is a good idea. The vapor or gases from the fumes can permanently attach to things like fingerprints on your glasses (like on the TV show CSI).

[William C Rogers]

Scott, I don't have any experience with the abranet so not sure on how well it works. I highly recommend the micro mesh. You need each grit from 1500-12000 (tel:1500-12000). This is what I am talking about.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/18/5391/Micro-Surface-Master-Finishing-12-Piece-Set?term=micro%20mesh%20sanding%20pads

to start I would use a friction polish if you don't want to go the CA route. I would use the Hut friction polish, Mylands is also good just cost more

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/40/1996/Hut-Crystal-Coat?term=but%20friction

and a stick of wax (not the Hut brand)

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/43/5171/Liberon-Woodturner%27s-Wax-Stick?term=carnauba%20wax

[Scott Cenicola]

Again, thanks to everyone for their reaponse. I ordered this afternoon. Im gonna go with blo and gf woodturners polish. Simple enough for my son and should produce good results. I may add a drop of ca to the blo if i don't get the desired result. I will have to do the ca myself. Heck, I'll probably end up making more pens then him. It seems to be as addictive as everyone suggests.

[Ronald Blue]

I would suggest you join the IAP International Association of Pen Turners. penturners.org/ Just add the www. It is dedicated to pen turning and there are many skilled and talented members and they are like here willing to share their wealth of knowledge. They also do group buys from time to time and you can get some significant savings on supplies and kits.

[Keith Outten]

I have used nitro laquer many times as a pen finish. It dries fast and is very inexpensive, a quart can will probably finish several hundred pens. I saw a YouTube video where the person used a spray can of laquer to finish several pens at a time loading them on a small dowel.
.

[Aaron Craven]

...It seems to be as addictive as everyone suggests.

And you haven't even started spindles and bowls... Welcome to the vortex!

[Dan Masshardt]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

The best product for your current situation is called Pens Plus by Doctors Woodshop. Woodcraft now carries it. It's also sold under the same name by Ron Brown at peach tree.

I and many others believe that it is quite a bit better than the other friction finishes on the market.

And it is easy to apply. Highly recommended.

Now it will not give you the deep gloss of ca, and as you've seen that's an art all its own.

Wood turners finish is a quality product but more involved still than pens plus and I don't see much advantage to it for the added steps - longer dry times, polishing after etc. mine just sits on the shelf.

I do use ca for most of my higher end pens, but pens plus is my go to for many other pens. If you decide to try it at some point I have some additional tips, but it would be a great approach for your son as well as far as ease.

In my opinion, things like blo or wax alone are pretty inadequate as a pen finish unless you want it really dull looking.

[John Terefenko]

Not quite sure why you are using BLO. If you are going that route, why not switch to a Danish oil??? It has blo and also a polyurethane in it and will add some shine to the finish. Also will add some protection. Makes for a nice feel to the wood. Good luck in your venture into pen turning

[Ronald Blue]

As you are learning there are many many directions to go in finishing. Each person develops their own "favorite". You want something durable on a pen because it will be subjected to the oils in ones hands plus being placed in pockets etc. Some finishes just don't "wear" well in this sort of use. CA is one of the best and it takes a little practice to get the process down but the results are exceptional. It will make some woods really "pop" by making the grain really pronounced and eye catching. To get good results you truly need the micromesh pads that will go up through 12000. Then you polish it on a buffing wheel for the last step. You can get by without the buffing for a while but not the micromesh. If you haven't looked there already go to the IAP (International Association of Penturners) website that I mentioned earlier. You can see so many combinations of material, finishes, and about every conceivable pen kit. While I have done a fair number of pens I still have so much to learn. That's a great place to see the endless possibilities.

[Scott Cenicola]

Sure are a lot of options, just like everything else in woodworking. I experimented with adding a drop of ca to blo and I liked the finish. Wont get a true sense until I get the sanding supplies I ordered. Im hoping the the GF finish is pretty simple, but if not ill try the pens plus next. I also thought about the spray laquer, probably third option. I did pick up a blank to turn my first mallet, so into the vortex I go!