Finishing Advice: Finishing Maple as "Espresso"

[Bob Opsitos]

I'm building a bookcase for my daughter to store the her toys and books. Made from maple and HD birch ply. I need to finish it to match existing furniture in her room. It's what I think people would describe as "espresso".

I have various transtint dyes: Dark Mission Brown, Dark Walnut, honey Amber, brown mahogany, reddish brown, black, and some primary colors)
I also have :
general finishes Van Dye brown glaze
Minwax penetrating stain in espresso and ebony and some minwax polyshades tinted espresso.

I have spray equipment, and I've sprayed shellac and poly, both tinted and not, and I have worked with dyes before (refinishing a mahogany and sapelle desk), but i was working to a base recipe from Fine Woodworking.

I know I will need to do some test pieces, but I'm looking for suggestions on where to start. Especially if a sealer coat is something I should start with vs spraying dye in water direct (which is what I had done before).

Pictures attached to detail what I am starting with and what I am trying to match

Any help appreciated.

thanks
bob

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[John TenEyck]

Here's what General Finishes Java OB Gel Stain looks like on hard maple, one and two coats brushed and wiped off:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/25939167020_0f6ba8c180_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fwa1DA)IMG_3510 (https://flic.kr/p/Fwa1DA) by John TenEyck (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141265405@N07/), on Flickr

And here's what it looks like after a couple of coats of Arm-R-Seal gloss was applied on top:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1624/26145737661_311aa0dcdd_z.jpg

Here's what Sherwin Williams's BAC Wiping Stain looks like on white oak. I haven't tried it on maple but I would expect it would be nearly as dark. This was a custom mix starting with Ebony Base. The topcoats were Sealcoat shellac followed by GF's Enduro Clear Poly Flat.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1718/26146632361_2ceb0a4725_z.jpg

I have not been able to produce a deep brown/black color using Transtint dye or Minwax stains. One of the above ideas might work for you.

John

[Prashun Patel]

I recently did my bathroom in 'espresso'. I repeated this regimen for my neighbor's bar cabinets. It worked well for me.

These cabinets are sapelle veneer.

Transtint Amber Additive @ 1.0% in ethanol wiped on.
Let dry
WD Lockwood Dark Walnut dye @ 2% in water. Soak it on with a foam brush and wipe off with wet rag.
Let dry.
Sealcoat sprayed, 2 coats. Sand with 600
Enduro Clear Poly sprayed, 5 coats (sand with 600 before final coat).

I like the multi-layer dye process because it adds a depth that becomes apparent in strong sunlight.

You can use your dark walnut Transtint in lieu of the Lockwood. I've used that too and it's fine.

Espresso dye is the easiest thing in the world to do because it's so forgiving. Just don't go too dark on the first coat, and make sure your test pieces are finished with top coat before you judge your result.

If you are finding it tricky to get the exact color or you're getting too dark or too muddy (when topcoated) then you can try either diluting more like 3-4% OR, move to dilution in ethanol and then spray it on.

You can of course transtint your shellac, and make a toner, but I think there are easier ways to get your results. As long as you test, you'll get there pretty easily with a little trial and error.

[John TenEyck]

Those are beautiful cabinets Prashun. The handles look pretty close the ones I used from Top Knobs for a couple of projects. Very nice stuff.

To the point of this thread, I think you'll find dark dyes don't behave as nicely on maple as they do on Sapelle; at least they haven't for me.

John

[Jamie Buxton]

My experience is that the bigger the color difference between the wood and the stain color, the more difficulties. Specifically, using a spray gun to go into those cubbyhole spaces is a problem. The spray doesn't get all the way into the corners, so you see a light line there. That is, you should wipe the stain/dye on. Spraying a clear coat into the cubbies isn't as bad; it doesn't show as much if the coverage isn't complete in the corners.

[Bob Opsitos]

[QUOTE=John TenEyck;2549486]Here's what General Finishes Java OB Gel Stain looks like on hard maple, one and two coats brushed and wiped off:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/25939167020_0f6ba8c180_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fwa1DA)


John, are the "lines" that appear to run the length of the board, that look like grain, from the brushing on of the gel stain? It almost appears like faux grain. I did order a can to give it a try on some test pieces along with some dye trails.

Prashun, I don't necessarily want to tint shellac and poly for toning but I'm guessing I will end up having to to blend the various maples pieces and the ply after staining. Some of my wood selection was done knowing that I was going to be homogenizing them with color, but that probably means they will all take the stain differently. Why did you start with the amber color? That was part of the recipe that I used for the desk I refinished. Just wondering if amber tint is a generally accepted start point to blend things.

What's the feeling on a starter shellac wash/sealer coat to prevent blotchiness? If I do something like that, am I then forced into "dye in alcohol" to get it to bond to the sealer coat?

Thanks
Bob

[Prashun Patel]

I think a starter spray coat of thinned shellac can work to reduce blotchiness.
In the end, you'll have to test first.

The amber first coat is for color depth. I learned it in an FWW article about finishing mahogany. It's hard to explain, and sounds hoakie, but in strong sunlight, the color just appears richer than without it. Now, if you're matching, you may not want to add that complication to your step. People will say that an oil-based topcoat will also give the same warmth. But the warmth and the color depth are two different things. Words are failing me; you'd just have to see it yourself to convince yourself whether it's worth it or not.

[John TenEyck]

I think those lines are because the board I used came out of my drum sander at 120 grit and I was too lazy to sand it with my ROS or by hand to get rid of them before I applied the gel stain.

I like spraying dyes and toners but I didn't recommend that approach for this project because of those cubbies. And my experience applying dyes by hand on maple have resulted in very poor results due to blotching.

John