Interesting new "black" finish.

[Allan Speers]

I'm probably not the first to try this, but it sure FEELS like I just invented it. (let me have my moment in the sun! :)

I'm rehabbing a bunch of planes this month. One of them is a later-model Stanely #4, with a black knob & tote. The wood was in good condition, but it was obviously done with just black paint. Feh.


I decided to sand them a little and then do a few coats of Pontypool japanning. IMO, when yo do 3-4 coats of this stuff, it is NOT the same as Dupli-color Ford black. Real japanning has ore depth. (That's my story and I'm sticking with it.)
Sure enough, it looked REALLY nice after 3 coats.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE -

Stupid me, I then grabbed the things before they were completely dry. (Pontypool takes several weeks, even months, before you can touch it without making any dull marks.) Instead of doing one more coat with the Pontypool, I looked over to where I was refurbing some mahogany totes. I love the look of garnet shellac on mahogany & walnut, so...

Well that's basically it. I laid on a few coats of garnet shellac, over the japanning.

Oh my.... :)

I wish I could teleport you guys here to see this, as I doubt the subtle depth & shine can be appreciated with a photograph. Suffice to say I'm knocked out. Rich, deep black, but with a hint of reddish-purple. It might be just a tad too shiny, so at some point I may try buffing it out, but maybe not.

Anyway, if any of you have the raw materials, I'd love it if you tried this on something and gave your opinion.

[Tony Zaffuto]

But wuth the Pontypool being somewhat soft nder the shellac, aren't you concerned the shellsc will impede it from continuing to harden?

[george wilson]

The Pontypool site says it dries to touch in 6-8 hours.

It says it was used on tole ware and tin ware. I have seen original tinware in flea markets,where the japaning had melted into a shiny,sticky mess over a period of many years. You may want to be careful what you put it on.

We did an experiment which went on for years in Williamsburg. We put a quart bottle open,half full of linseed oil in a sunny window and let it set for several years. The linseed oil went through several cycles of re drying and re liquifying over the years. Eventually,when I became toolmaker in 1986,I left the shop,and did not look at the progress of the linseed oil again. It was an interesting process to see,though!

[Mike Brady]

I gave japanning the old college try about ten years ago. I went to the trouble of researching formulas and then acquiring the ingredients, which I think was primarily asphaltum powder, spar varnish, and turpentine. I never tired Pontypool's product. My initial results were spectacular. I was able to exactly reproduce the original look of japanning: the translucency over the relief of the letter and numerals in the casting and the syrupy pooling on the flat areas. I baked the pieces in an oven. Now the bad news. The durability of the result was terrible. It chipped very easily and was subject to softening from oil used to lubricate the moving parts of the plane. I ultimate removed the new jappaning and replaced it with high-solids industrial enamel. Fortunately, I had done only one plane. I found it was better to just collect good examples of planes I wanted and forget the basket cases. After a few years I had found a nice group of planes, all Stanley, that had almost perfect japanning and not a single broken wood part. Then I stopped looking. The planes I use are all modern vintage.

[Allan Speers]

But wuth the Pontypool being somewhat soft nder the shellac, aren't you concerned the shellsc will impede it from continuing to harden?


Good thinking, Tony.

You're right, this could be a problem, Shellac is not 100% impermeable to water vapor, but high quality dewaxed flakes, mixed very fresh, are a better barrier than many folks realize. I didn't consider this.

Another issue could be cracking, since the under layer will continue to harden for a while. This happens to oil painters when they break the "fat over lean" rule. I guess time will tell.


Regardless, it's a LOVELY finish. I'm thinking of trying this on something like a jewelry box.

It also makes me wonder if it would look "close" by simply using black paint? Probably not the same, but much easier. Also, what about garnet shellac over ebony stain, or ebonized wood?

[Allan Speers]

The Pontypool site says it dries to touch in 6-8 hours.

Hey, George.

I would say it dries to the touch in about 24 - 36 hrs, maybe a little more, at around 68 degrees F. - By this I mean, that's when you can handle it without leaving any trace of dull finger marks.

But of course, "dry to the touch" and "fully cured" are worlds apart, as you know.

Interesting about the linseed oil experiment. - But what exactly does that tell us? (I'm asking.) Surely a jar full is not the same as a few thin layers, so.... (Otherwise, fine oil paintings would be failing en masse.)

=======================================


Mike, I hear you. Japanning is lovely, but not very durable. - But what price, beauty? :)

If you want REALLY durable, use something like Por15, or a 2-part epoxy paint. And guitars could all be done with modern, UV-cured water finishes, but yeach... (I bet George is a die-hard nitro man.)



Well ..... Call me a troglodyte, I can take it!

[george wilson]

I'm just saying that some of these old finishes can be deceiving. I think this is one of them,if it is truly like the original finish,since I have seen many old tinware boxes with the asphaltum based finish melted. I don't trust it.

[Patrick Chase]

The Pontypool site says it dries to touch in 6-8 hours.

It says it was used on tole ware and tin ware. I have seen original tinware in flea markets,where the japaning had melted into a shiny,sticky mess over a period of many years. You may want to be careful what you put it on.

We did an experiment which went on for years in Williamsburg. We put a quart bottle open,half full of linseed oil in a sunny window and let it set for several years. The linseed oil went through several cycles of re drying and re liquifying over the years. Eventually,when I became toolmaker in 1986,I left the shop,and did not look at the progress of the linseed oil again. It was an interesting process to see,though!

Sounds like maybe the linseed oil never fully polymerized? IIRC it undergoes irreversible polymerization in thin layers, though that might not be the case in a concentrated mass.