Are High End Coffee Makers Worth the Cost?

[Jim Koepke]

Coffee making apparatuses (I want to say apparati, but the dictionary doesn't agree) have changed a lot in my life time, while basically staying the same. Those K-cup things seem to be ridiculous for someone like me. I like a good cup of coffee, but I do not want to stand around and wait all day or feel like it is a ritual. Besides, the single cup at a time system seems to generate a lot more waste and cost than is needed for a good cup of joe.

This is on my mind since yesterday a puddle of water formed under our Mr. Coffee. This one didn't seem to last as long as the old Mr. Coffee. We decided to give Target a visit since we hadn't been there for a while. A store associate took as to Coffee Row. One side seemed to be all K-cup machines as groused about above. The other side had various machines from under $20 to $200. I have had some great cups of coffee in my life time. I do not recall any that came from a machine costing that much. One friend had an espresso set up that cost a lot more than that, but the output was still dependant on the input of good beans.

The Mr. Coffee was at a lower price than when we bought the one we had. Looked like the same model. Then another store associate asked us if we were interested in purchasing a coffee maker. She was holding one up and said, this model is discontinued and on clearance price. There was only one. The price was $6.88 for a total of $7.43 with tax. So we took it home. It isn't much different than our old coffee maker. The features are a little bit more involved. The old one had an on/off switch as its main distinguishing feature. The new one has bubble buttons, a time display and is progamable. It is doubtful the 'start brewing before we wake up' feature will get used, but who knows maybe it will be good for those mornings when we know we will be getting up at a pre-determined time. I will have to get used to the clock. Now I look at it and think I forgot to turn it off. The clock numerals are green, the same color the old coffee maker's switch glowed when it was on.

The first batch of coffee came out pretty much the same as the coffee I have been drinking for years. Most likely when a patina builds up it will be just like old times.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

It seems to me that the main variables in good coffee are good water and good coffee. The machine is not the biggest determining factor. Truth in advertising - we basically have been Folgers drinkers for years. I get Starbucks and Caribou at work and they are much better coffee. Now at home we are experimenting with different brands, both grind our own and preground. Too early to decide on a favorite, but I know that if we use filtered tapwater it tastes better than straight tapwater.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

No, but a high end french press and burr grinder does. Go get an Espro French Press, a good burr grinder, and some Cafe' Britt whole bean coffee. Thank me later.

[Jim Becker]

Well...it's like anything...the right tool for the expected job. I drink latté in the morning--it's what I enjoy. Many years ago, I started out with a very low-end machine that came as a gift from someone. The boiler lasted less than a year. Spent a little more on the next one, but it also didn't last a long time. So I did some research and ended up "spending" a lot more on a semi-pro, albeit manual, machine. That was in 2005 and I replaced it with a slightly more capable, semi-automatic machine two years ago. So that initial semi-pro machine ended up "costing" about $200 a year based on the 7 years of use, but we stopped going out for breakfast on the weekends for a substantial net-improvement in cash flow, if you catch my drift. I expect the same rate of return on the replacement and it makes even better drinks because it's more consistent via the partial automation. This is a stock photo of my machine...

https://cdn3.volusion.com/wysrt.cnwfk/v/vspfiles/photos/M-VIVALDI-II-2T.gif?1443510795

That all said, it sounds like you got an excellent buy and kudos to that sales person for suggesting the "right tool" for your needs. It really is the bottom line, after all...

[Shawn Pixley]

Generally speaking, flat bottom coffee makers give a poorer quality brew than cone drip or french press. I am unimpressed by Keurig.

Admittedly, I am a bit of a coffee snob. For good brew you need three things, good beans freshly ground, proper water temperature, and a good machine to marry the two. Most drip machines don't give the proper water temperature or right contact time between bean and water; either resulting in an incomplete brew or release of bitter esters. I found cone shaped filters with highly precise water temps give a good brew. There are a few machines out there that deliver this. You can go manual with a french press or a Chemex.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

334971

This is it. The Espro has two stacked filters, seen here taken apart. The burr grinder I have is a hand grinder, in true Neanderthal style.

[Larry Browning]

We had been Mr. Coffee/ basic coffee maker users for many years. My wife, drinks coffee all day long and switches to decaf after about 2:00 and then drinks that til she goes to bed.
About 10 years ago we got one with a thermal carafe from Cuisinart. It has been great. It has a 12 cup stainless steel thermal carafe that will literately keep the coffee fresh and hot for 12 hours. I have been known to enjoy a morning cup of hot coffee that had been brewed the evening before. Since there is no carafe heating element, it will never give the coffee that burnt stale flavor after a few hours.
It cost a little more than the cheapo ones, but this has been a work horse for 10 years and still going strong.
We are decidedly NOT coffee snobs. We don't want to make coffee making a hobby, we just want a nice cup a joe, and get on with life.
We got it at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Conair-Cuisinart-DTC-975BKN-Programmable-Thermal/dp/B0000YTYGM?ie=UTF8&keywords=thermal%20coffee%20maker&qid=1459531162&ref_=sr_1_1&s=kitchen&sr=1-1

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

Completely agreed with Malcolm and Shawn - french press and grinder plus a good beans.
Talking about beans - some of it make a mess after grinding with static electricity, some not. I really hate this mess but can't found of culprit of this static charges - dry weather? oily beans? dry beans? Is anybody has same issue with beans?

Ed.

[Jim Becker]

Ed, I get a little "stick" in the plastic container that my grinder deposits the coffee in post-grinding, but I can generally knock that last little bit loose with a light smack on the counter while transferring the ground beans to my machine. Some of it is likely from the oil (and the type of dark roast beans I use generally have a bit of that) and some may be static.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

334972334973Thought I would share this, as I have gotten to experience some cool things through my job in regards to coffee purveyors. I hope it doesn't come across as a gloat, but thought it might interest folks here. This is taken at the Mavis Bank Coffee Company, better known as the purveyors of Jablum Coffee in Jamaica. I do business with them, and got to take a tour of their facility high in the Jamaican Blue Mountains. The ladies there have to sort beans by hand. Once they have sorted a bag of beans (and I cannot remember how much weight a bag was) they take it for inspection and they get paid. The shovel is in a pile of beans waiting to go to the roaster, which is two huge rotating ovens kind of like cement mixers with heat.

A sample of each batch goes and gets a blind taste test from the grande master of coffee tasters- Sen. Norman Grant. I had the privilege of joining him on a taste test. They have a rotating table upon which they set up four sets of three cups. The cups each have a number to correspond to the batch. He does not know which batch is which number, thus keeping any bias out of the test. He showed me how to use a spoon to inhale the coffee through your teeth so that it sprays into the mouth and lets all your taste buds work. Sen. Grant told me that he once tested 300 cups in one day this way, and slept that night like a baby. WOW! He is called upon to travel all over the world to taste coffees- some job!

I've been blessed with the ability to travel to many places, and experienced coffee in many ways. I once had coffee in Haiti, and not speaking much French, I ordered the best that I could. She gave me a tiny cup of espresso, which I enjoyed very much. Within a few minutes I was bouncing off the walls. I literally felt high. I went back and asked "Is this ONLY coffee? Is there something else in it?" Nope, just coffee. Their coffee is the most insanely caffeinated stuff I have ever had. I literally thought I had been drugged- not kidding- literally thought maybe I had ordered a cafe' con coca or something.

In Jamaica they primarily use percolators, which make a rich, almost chocolaty coffee. In Dominican Republic they make very strong espresso and add lots of sugar. Of course Cubans make coffee in the tiniest little cups and brew the sugar with the coffee to get this insane shot of sweetened caffeine! I love how each culture has taken coffee and made it their own way, and that's the way for them it must be made. Also for those countries that produce coffee, they all swear theirs is the best, and even get offended if you mention some other country's coffee. It has always interested me.

Anyway, just a little coffee info that I thought you might enjoy. Now please, stop torturing your coffee with that drip machine!

[Paul McGaha]

Just my opinion but I think BUNN coffee makers are worth the cost. We've used them the last 20 years or so. Wouldn't have anything else.

Very good cup of coffee and also very fast. Brew a 1/2 pot in about 2 minutes, a full pot in about 4 minutes.

PHM

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am not a coffee snob. Taste in coffee is subjective. I prefer Folgers and I use nothing but a Bunn coffee maker. I've tried the Mr. Coffees and others. I just prefer having the water hot so 3 minutes later I have a fresh pot of coffee.

If you travel overseas, as in Australia or New Zealand, you have to learn the local equivalent words for the type of coffee you want. Most of what I got was the local equivalent of espresso until I learned to use the term "filter coffee" which got me the equivalent of what we get here in the USA.

[Bruce Page]

We bought a Keurig Vue a few years ago and love it. Obviously I'm not a coffee connoisseur, I just want a good, plain cup of black coffee and the Keurig gives me that in about 1 minute. We both drink two 14oz cups in the morning with zero waste. I couldn't count the number of half full pots I've dumped down the drain.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Being the very proud owner of a Technivorm (a $300 coffee maker that only boils water--no clocks, timers or other gadgets) and a home coffee roaster, I you would expect that I would say that it does matter. It does and it doesn't. So long as you find a coffee maker that gets the water to a hot temperature (>198 F), has a V filter cone and does not have a hot plate heating element, it does not matter.

The quality and roast of the coffee along with the grind is more important (IMHO) than the coffee maker.

Also, I am of the opinion, drink coffee the way you like it. If you like coffee made from instant, drink that. If you like coffee from a French Press, drink that.

[Erik Loza]

The best make-it-now coffee I've had was from my wife's burr grinder and french press. I don't know the brand but they aren't fancy. The best not-make-now-coffee I've had is from my wife's toddy jar. All the flavor without any harshess but it's time consuming to make.

Erik

[Ken Fitzgerald]

. It does and it doesn't. So long as you find a coffee maker that gets the water to a hot temperature (>198 F), has a V filter cone and does not have a hot plate heating element, it does not matter.

Also, I am of the opinion, drink coffee the way you like it. If you like coffee made from instant, drink that. If you like coffee from a French Press, drink that.

Todd,

I couldn't agree more!

The only time the tank heater in my Bunn coffee maker is turned off is when I unplug the maker to go on vacation. The heater under the pot is never turned on. In my opinion, over heating coffee makes it bitter.

Make coffee in a fashion that pleases you!

Most importantly, enjoy it!

[Allan Speers]

It seems to me that the main variables in good coffee are good water and good coffee. The machine is not the biggest determining factor. Truth in advertising - we basically have been Folgers drinkers for years. I get Starbucks and Caribou at work and they are much better coffee. Now at home we are experimenting with different brands, both grind our own and preground. Too early to decide on a favorite, but I know that if we use filtered tapwater it tastes better than straight tapwater.

If you want REALLY good coffee, buy top quality GREEN beans. Buy a good small roaster, and roast a small batch at a time, say 1 week's worth. Grind only what you need for the day, then brew any way you want. I like a french press myself.


I used to get green Columbian first-pick (very hard to find) and also green organic Hawaiin Kona. I also used powdered fructose instead of table sugar. OMG, was that good coffee!



Problem was, I started drinking waaaay too much coffee. These days I suffer with Maxwell House instant. It's not quite as horrific as Folgers, but nasty enough that I only drink 2-3 cups a day.

[roger wiegand]

Unbearable coffee snob here. Except that I let convenience overrule my snobbishness. Some things I will not compromise on, the biggest one is to grind the beans immediately before brewing. All coffee is improved dramatically by this simple step.

These days the convenience factor comes in that I use a Jura fully automatic espresso machine. True snobs wouldn't touch a "superautomatic". That said it makes extremely good espresso and Americano. It costs a fortune, but I think I've easily made the cost difference back in not wasting coffee. These machines make one cup at a time from beans ground on demand. No waste at all, and no mess. Every cup is perfectly fresh. We used to pretty routinely throw away half a pot every day. That adds up pretty quickly over time.

For beans I long ago, when I lived in Menlo Park half a block from Peets (when Mr. Peet could still be seen grumping around the store), developed a taste for dark roasted Indonesian coffees. Major Dickason's Blend (mostly Sumatran) has been my go-to coffee for the past 35 years or so. The coffee they now sell in the Peets franchise stores is wimpy compared to the original, but the beans are still good. Order from CA, the stuff in grocery stores is ancient, but they will still mail you coffee within a day or two of roasting.

For whatever reason, I really don't like French press brewed coffee. It's hard to get it both strong enough-- the grind needs to be too coarse, and the contact time is too long, and reasonably hot. A pour-over in a Melitta cone seems to work great-- dirt cheap too. Need to have a thermometer to check water temp and pre-heat everything.

Starbucks bought the Clover brewing system (basically a fully automated inverted French press), which is fantastic (the system, not that Starbucks bought it). A $10K coffee machine is out of the question, but the Clover-brewed Sumatra at Starbucks is as close as I've found to the original Peets taste. It's the only coffee there worth drinking as far as I can tell.

[roger wiegand]

If you want REALLY good coffee, buy top quality GREEN beans. Buy a good small roaster, and roast a small batch at a time, say 1 week's worth. Grind only what you need for the day, then brew any way you want. I like a french press myself.

You must have the touch! Roasting coffee is really hard-- witness Starbucks who can't seem to achieve a dark roast without burning the coffee. I've never been able to achieve any kind of consistency. I haven't looked recently, but it used to be that getting top quality green beans in small quantities was really hard, especially for anything other than South American.

[Allan Speers]

You must have the touch! Roasting coffee is really hard-- witness Starbucks who can't seem to achieve a dark roast without burning the coffee. I've never been able to achieve any kind of consistency. I haven't looked recently, but it used to be that getting top quality green beans in small quantities was really hard, especially for anything other than South American.

Yeah, you have to buy a lot, then vacuum-wrap & deep-freeze what you aren't using.
Roasting definitely is an art, but having a really GOOD roaster also helps. I tried three different roasters before I got what I was after. Can't recall the name of the one I settled on. I gave it to my nephew a few years ago.

As for Starbucks, I've never had a cup there (in any store) that wasn't burnt worse than a witch in Salem. Absolutely the worst coffee on the planet, IMO. I think they purposely overheat it, because so much of what they sell has tons of milk or cream added. It has to startout super-hot, which of course destroys it.
Sadly, I'm forced to drink it often because clients love to stop there.

[Phil Stone]

For beans I long ago, when I lived in Menlo Park half a block from Peets (when Mr. Peet could still be seen grumping around the store), developed a taste for dark roasted Indonesian coffees. Major Dickason's Blend (mostly Sumatran) has been my go-to coffee for the past 35 years or so. The coffee they now sell in the Peets franchise stores is wimpy compared to the original, but the beans are still good. Order from CA, the stuff in grocery stores is ancient, but they will still mail you coffee within a day or two of roasting.

For whatever reason, I really don't like French press brewed coffee. It's hard to get it both strong enough-- the grind needs to be too coarse, and the contact time is too long, and reasonably hot. A pour-over in a Melitta cone seems to work great-- dirt cheap too. Need to have a thermometer to check water temp and pre-heat everything.



Agree with you both about the Peet's (French Roast whole bean for me) and not liking French press coffee (plus, I've heard that paper filters out two of the more harmful compounds in coffee).

To answer the original question, I have a Cuisinart cone-drip brewer which has made consistently excellent coffee for over ten years.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

You must have the touch! Roasting coffee is really hard-- witness Starbucks who can't seem to achieve a dark roast without burning the coffee. I've never been able to achieve any kind of consistency. I haven't looked recently, but it used to be that getting top quality green beans in small quantities was really hard, especially for anything other than South American.

Roasting is not hard. I use a popcorn popper, and you can get pretty consistent results. Use the same amount of beans, set a timer, let them run for the same amount of time, they come out pretty much the same. Experiment until you get what you like. There will be a little variation if you let it go shorter or longer (or if you do it outside and the ambient temperature is higher or lower), but to me that is a feature and not a bug.

I buy a 50 pound bag and keep it in the basement. They don't seem to go bad, and I keep a mason jar in the kitchen for what I need from day to day.

[Myk Rian]

Just my opinion but I think BUNN coffee makers are worth the cost. We've used them the last 20 years or so. Wouldn't have anything else.

Very good cup of coffee and also very fast. Brew a 1/2 pot in about 2 minutes, a full pot in about 4 minutes.

PHM
^^^This^^^

We have a well. After the pump and float tank we have an iron filter. Before that water gets to the softener I have a tap for a spigot. It's there for plants, drinking, and coffee.
We've had Bunn makers for many years.

[Chris Padilla]

I save a TON of money by using absolutely NOTHING to brew coffee that I don't drink, remotely like, or possess. Smells good...tastes horrible. :D

Go figure I'd marry a woman who also doesn't drink coffee.

Carry on.... ;)

[Larry Browning]

If you travel overseas, as in Australia or New Zealand, you have to learn the local equivalent words for the type of coffee you want. Most of what I got was the local equivalent of espresso until I learned to use the term "filter coffee" which got me the equivalent of what we get here in the USA.

On day 2 of our tour of Italy we learned to ask for Cafe Americana.

[Evan Patton]

Being the very proud owner of a Technivorm (a $300 coffee maker that only boils water--no clocks, timers or other gadgets) and a home coffee roaster, I you would expect that I would say that it does matter. It does and it doesn't. So long as you find a coffee maker that gets the water to a hot temperature (>198 F), has a V filter cone and does not have a hot plate heating element, it does not matter.

The quality and roast of the coffee along with the grind is more important (IMHO) than the coffee maker.

Also, I am of the opinion, drink coffee the way you like it. If you like coffee made from instant, drink that. If you like coffee from a French Press, drink that.
+1 to the Technivorm and a Baratza grinder. I don't roast my own beans, though. The Technivorm uses the right temperature, and does a great job saturating the grounds. I like French Press as well--it makes great coffee--but it's a lot easier just to grind the coffee, fill the machine with water, and push the button than try to get the water at 198ºF.

[Allan Speers]

Roasting is not hard. I use a popcorn popper, and you can get pretty consistent results. Use the same amount of beans, set a timer, let them run for the same amount of time, they come out pretty much the same. Experiment until you get what you like. There will be a little variation if you let it go shorter or longer (or if you do it outside and the ambient temperature is higher or lower), but to me that is a feature and not a bug.

I buy a 50 pound bag and keep it in the basement. They don't seem to go bad, and I keep a mason jar in the kitchen for what I need from day to day.


If all you want to do is "roast" your beans, then sure, a popcorn popper will do the trick. (with good ventilation.) - But if you want REALLY well-roasted beans, you have to have control over the temperature. Different beans need different max heat, and ALL beans benefit form starting low and ending high.

Yes, I belong to the scientific order "Javas Snobbificus." :)

[Brett Luna]

I make no claim to being a coffee connoisseur but we've been using our new Ninja coffee maker for a few days. It replaced a Capresso TEAM coffee maker with built-in grinder...which didn't work so well after a while in spite of a thorough cleaning. I bought a Ninja blender a while back and was impressed with its performance so I decided to give the coffee maker a try.

[Phil Stone]

On day 2 of our tour of Italy we learned to ask for Cafe Americana.

Ooh, pet peeve of mine -- the heinous Americano. It's espresso *diluted with hot water*. Yee-uck! It makes sense that Italy might not have drip coffee, but when an American coffee shop only has Americanos, I permanently label them as too pretentious to ever visit again. How hard is it to make drip coffee, anyway?

In Italy, I just gave up and tossed back a few espressos.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Wherever I go I look forward to returning home to my own coffee. As usual, I am very picky.
I ground my beans in a cheapo mr coffee grinder and use the cheapest coffee maker at Best Buy.

It's ALL in the beans.

[Bill Neely]

I grind my beans fresh for an Aeropress. I think it's hard to beat for single cups. With limited choices for espresso here in town I drink a 4 shot cup every day at lunchtime but I don't care for their brewed coffee.

[Mike Null]

I love good coffee and have had a number of expensive and no so expensive coffeemakers. I have ground my own beans with a good mill. But I just gave it all up as being too much trouble. We must have our morning coffee and for the past several years since I disposed of the expensive and time consuming stuff, we've been using a 20 year old Braun drip maker with a cone filter. We just make one cup at a time, even though it's a 10 cup pot and we used pre-ground German roasted coffee from Aldi. It's a pretty good cup of coffee and quite easy to brew.

In the evening I'll have a "dessert" coffee; actually capuccino. I use Nescafe instant expresso that I order from England and a frothing gadget from Breville which works very well. The Nescafe makes expresso which is indistinguishable from the ground stuff.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

For the record....I drink 3-5 pots of Folgers coffee a day. It's weakened because I discovered too much caffeine makes my heart race.

That being said...... Don't drink the coffee in Auckland, New Zealand at the Denny's Restaurant on Hobson Street. I didn't finish the first cup of coffee there. My wife of 48 years will tell you that is a first!

[Mike Cutler]

It all depends on what you're looking for, and how much you like coffee.
Like others have said, it's all in the water and beans. (City water treater with chloramine, will ruin just about any cup of coffee, regardless of the bean.)
I like my coffee strong, so for me, controlling as much of the process as I can gives me a better cup of coffee.
Right now, we're getting a whole bean Yemen Mocha Matari from StorehouseCoffee.com. The kitchen aide burr grinder is set to 5.5, and the coffee is brewed in a Krups Mocha Brew Master.
I've had two Keurigs, but the quality of any of the coffee I've made with their little cups is pretty low. I know folks like them, but I've just never been able to get anything I like out of one. Also that's a ton of waste to make a cup of coffee, unless you get the adapter for your own coffee.

[Jim Koepke]

Ooh, pet peeve of mine -- the heinous Americano. It's espresso *diluted with hot water*. Yee-uck!

+1 on that. I went to a "coffee shop" that didn't have a regular brew of coffee and offered an Americano, I said, "no thanks, I'll get real coffee down the road," turned around and walked out.

When ever I order a cup of coffee and someone says, "oh what you want... " I stop them and let them know I want a regular cup of coffee and there are many places that know what I want without telling me what I want.

For the record, my favorite is Peet's Major Dickason Blend. The new coffee maker is a Black & Decker.

I do have a hand crank burr grinder. It gets used for grinding up cloves and allspice so much grinding beans in it makes for an interesting first pot of coffee.

Interesting to see what others feel about their coffee.

I used to drink too much coffee. Now a set amount is made in the morning and seldom do I have more than that.

jtk

[Bruce Page]

For the record....I drink 3-5 pots of Folgers coffee a day. It's weakened because I discovered too much caffeine makes my heart race.

Wow! I would be a walking zombie if I drank that much coffee! I have two 14oz cups in the morning. It takes me 1-2 hours to fall asleep if I have three.
Never understood the point of decaf.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bruce....Sharon will attest, I crawl in bed most often after she does, tell her "Good night. I love you." and can be snoring 30 seconds later. I don't drink either straight decaf or straight Folgers classic roast. I found out twice in a 10 day time period that too much caffeine could make my heart race and I could feel it. In both instances, I had pulled an all nighter changing an x-ray tube on a CT scanner and calibrating it. Early morning, I tired of drinking coffee for the caffeine to keep me awake and switched to a can of soda. 2 hours later after arriving home, I could feel my heart beat uncontrollably. It was scary. I talked with one of the cardiologists I saw regularly at a local medical center and he recommended decreasing caffeine. I don't drink 2 cans of soda a year now. I also switched to mixing 50/50 decaf and regular coffee. Some caffeine but less than full strength coffee.

[Ruperto Mendiones]

I roast my own beans, grind just before use, use a teakettle and filter funnel that drains the coffee into a thermos. I use a Technivorm as a backup & travel method but it fails to keep coffee as hot [despite scalding the pot with boiling water] as my primary method. I think I've purchased a replacement filter funnel about every 10 years and 15 years for the thermos. I haven't ventured into expre$$o machines.

[roger wiegand]

Ooh, pet peeve of mine -- the heinous Americano. It's espresso *diluted with hot water*. Yee-uck!

My version isn't quite that. More of a "long pull" perhaps-- fine ground coffee for two shots (three heaping tablespoons or so after grinding) extracted with ~5 oz of water. I occasionally enjoy a real Italian "ristretto" made with only a half oz of water, but most mornings I want more in my cup. Yes, diluting espresso with hot water is awful.

[Greg Peterson]

I use a Bonavita drio brewer and a Capresso burr grinder. Dollar for dollar, convenience and flavor, I don't think you are going to find a better combination.
The Bonavita is one of nine coffee brewers that meet the Specialty Coffee Association of America's Home Brewer Program standards.

"The SCAA recognizes home brewers that meet our longstanding rigorous technical requirements. These requirements are based on decades of industry knowledge and research by the Coffee Brewing Center. All SCAA Certified Brewers have met these requirements, which are based generally on proper water temperature, brewing time, and ability to brew within the SCAA Golden Cup recommendations. If a brewer passes all of the tests as described below and conducted by the SCAA, that brewer will be recognized as an exemplary home brewer and join the short list of SCAA Certified Brewers."

One of the standards is the water temperature must be 92 degrees Celsius within one minute and not exceed 96 degrees Celsius at anytime during the brewing process. They have a whole list of standards and testing procedures and so on.

All I know is the Bonavita brews a darn good cup of coffee. And the Capresso burr grinder makes grinding easy, convenient and consistent.

http://www.scaa.org/?page=cert2

[Jerome Stanek]

What makes a great cup of coffee for one person may not be the same as another person's taste. I hate flavored coffees and my wife loves them. some people like strong coffee and some mild. The machine only brews what you put in it a very expensive maker with a really cheap blend won't give you a good cup but a good blend and a cheap maker will give you a good cup.

[Pat Barry]

Ooh, pet peeve of mine -- the heinous Americano. It's espresso *diluted with hot water*. Yee-uck! ....
What? You do realize that all coffee is diluted with water of course. Diluting an espresso to make an americano is no different than just brewing one to begin with.

[Jim Koepke]

What? You do realize that all coffee is diluted with water of course. Diluting an espresso to make an americano is no different than just brewing one to begin with.

True espresso is brewed differently than coffee. If I want a diluted espresso, I want it diluted with a cup of 'standard' brew coffee.

I do not claim to be a coffee connoisseur, but I can tell the difference between a decent cup of coffee and watered down espresso, commonly called an Americano. Maybe it is just started out as making fun of what most Americans consider a 'good cup of coffee.'

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

True espresso is brewed differently than coffee. If I want a diluted espresso, I want it diluted with a cup of 'standard' brew coffee.

jtk

A shot of espesso in a cup of drip is called a "red eye." LOML's favorite drink.

[Allan Speers]

What? You do realize that all coffee is diluted with water of course. Diluting an espresso to make an americano is no different than just brewing one to begin with.


I don't know how espresso is made, exactly, , but at the very least, espresso beans are a very different roast.

The flavor would surely be different.

[Jim Becker]

I don't know how espresso is made, exactly, , but at the very least, espresso beans are a very different roast.

The flavor would surely be different.

Espresso is made by forcing the hot water under high pressure through a measured and packed amount of coffee ground relatively fine...about 1.5 oz at a time. That would be a so-called "shot" of espresso. Contrary to popular belief, the stronger flavor of espresso doesn't necessary mean higher caffeine. (although adding multiple shots in a single drink can "get you there". LOL A good "pull" of espresso will also have this wonderful "crema" on top...a caramel colored liquid that does eventually blend with the rest of the coffee.

Many of us actually don't use beans for espresso drinks that are labeled "espresso roast", although in most cases, it will be a darker roast. My current favorite is a locally roasted bean called Papua New Guinea from The Coffee Scoop (http://www.freshcoffeescoop.com/). The flavor is complex and really wonderful for the latté that I make and drink.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't know how espresso is made, exactly, , but at the very least, espresso beans are a very different roast.

The flavor would surely be different.

Espresso is roasted differently, then the grounds are packed into a special holding compartment and steam is forced through to do the brewing. It is a different flavor and a stronger kick. That is likely why an espresso is served in a much smaller cup. I like espresso in some beverages. I do not like espresso mixed with hot water.

I have had coffee that is brewed very strong to be kept for mixing with hot water later and that has been good at times. I am not sure if it is a cold process or what. Like so many other cups of coffee, it depends on the quality of the original ingredients.

jtk

[Mark Blatter]

Reading what everybody has to do for a 'good' cup of coffee makes me glad I don't drink the stuff. I heat up some water, throw in some hot chocolate, mix it up and call it good. I think life is too short to worry so much about it. Now if you want to talk about making bread from your own ground wheat, we can talk.

[Gary Yoder]

Reading what everybody has to do for a 'good' cup of coffee makes me glad I don't drink the stuff. I heat up some water, throw in some hot chocolate, mix it up and call it good. I think life is too short to worry so much about it. Now if you want to talk about making bread from your own ground wheat, we can talk.

:)We all have our own interests don't we? There are some things in life that I feel are much more important, so I decided that I will enjoy inexpensive black coffee, or not drink it and spend the money/time on other things. But that doesn't mean I feel badly toward anyone that does!

[roger wiegand]

I don't know how espresso is made, exactly, , but at the very least, espresso beans are a very different roast.

Espresso is made by extracting compressed, finely ground coffee with hot water under pressure, typically 130 to 220 psi (9-15 bar) for a relatively short exposure time, typically 15 to 25 seconds. The short extraction is said to capture a lot of the readily soluble aromatic components of the coffee and less of the more bitter, less soluble components. The same coffee brewed by espresso extraction and by a french press or drip method will taste quite different. For my favorite coffee, I like it both ways (drip and espresso-- I don't like the french press version). One is not better than the other, they are just different.

"Espresso beans" is just marketing, there is no such thing. You can use any kind of coffee in an espresso machine, very often with dramatically better results than the beans labeled "espresso beans". Commercial espresso beans tend to be bottom-of-the-barrel quality beans over-roasted to hide the defects.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

This has been an interesting thread. I have been kind of a "closet coffee snob." I hate coffee snobs, but yet probably I have become one. Well, not a snob- I can still down a Styrofoam cup full of black sludge at a truckstop, but at home I'm probably pretty picky about my coffee. I totally understand those that say, "I just drink what is in front of me and don't care about all these technicalities." I used to be you. In fact, I was the guy that would reconstitute the sludge at the bottom of the pot and drink it. What happened? Italy. Italy happened. That was my first time to experience coffee the way it should be. It was so good- so rich and creamy. Oh my, is this what coffee is? I never knew. I thought it was some brownish colored water that you added milk to, but no- this is something different. This is emitting flavor and aroma. So THIS is what all the hype is about? I'm in. "Un café con crema per favor!"

I guess one could equate it to having a cheap plane that you tweaked a little and you think you're just fine with your Craftsman hand plane with the mouth you could drive a truck through; then one day you try a Lie-Nielsen, properly sharpened and set up, and it sings as you push it through some figured maple. The thinnest onion skin shaving flies straight up to heaven, and at that moment you realize what you've been missing all along. A few years and a few thousand dollars in tools and Japanese Waterstones later, you're too deep into it to turn back. - that's pretty much how it is with coffee.

[Al Launier]

I have a Cuisinart Extreme brewer and also frequently (daily) use the Keurig brewer for K-Cups. I guess I'm not as particular about coffee as many are, and I'm not into the more sophisticated coffees or brewers. However I much prefer a hot cup of coffee, in fact I sometimes request that a cup of coffee served in restaurants be microwaved, especially when served from a newlybrewed pot. The two brewers noted above do provide a hot cup of cofee and my preferred brands are New England, Duncan Doughnuts, and Kuerig Nantucket Blend.

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

I buy the cheapest one in the store, use Community Coffee & filtered water.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

A shot of espesso in a cup of drip is called a "red eye." LOML's favorite drink.

my favorite is two shots: "Black Eye"

[Kev Williams]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but I did search "cuisinart" and found a few, but didn't notice anyone mentioned the "Grind n Brew" maker. We've had one for around 5 years, and I swear we're keeping the bean growers in business because of it. It's the only coffee maker I've found that will grind the beans (with an actual burr grinder, not bean pulverizing spinning hooks), deposit the fresh ground beans in the filter and brew your coffee. It will set from 4 to 12 cups, and 3 strength levels for each setting. We don't care for strong coffee, we brew ours from a 6-cup 'strong' setting. And it'll make jet-black coffee too! The only drawbacks to the thing is, the grinder is noisy, and you MUST clean the grinder-dump out about twice a week, which is a 2 minute job. Other than that, just keep beans in the top, add water, filter, press "power".

I just bought another one last week. The grinder is much quieter than the other, but we're not sure it was always that noisy. The reason I bought the new one is because the old one would keep cycling the disk above the basket several times before it would brew. After checking into it, there's a door that cuts off the coffee supply to the filter that must close, and it wasn't closing. The reason turned out to be a slot in the plastic housing that a pin in the door rode in seemed tight against the pin, and the door would hang. A couple of minutes shaving the slot with an x-acto knife and the door opens and closes freely, and it works like new again...

The first one was a re-furb I got at a kitchen store for $85 or so, the new one was $140 on ebay. Not exactly 'high-end' I suppose, but I haven't bought a can of ground coffee for years! :)

[Tom Stenzel]

Generally speaking, flat bottom coffee makers give a poorer quality brew than cone drip or french press. I am unimpressed by Keurig.

Admittedly, I am a bit of a coffee snob. For good brew you need three things, good beans freshly ground, proper water temperature, and a good machine to marry the two. Most drip machines don't give the proper water temperature or right contact time between bean and water; either resulting in an incomplete brew or release of bitter esters. I found cone shaped filters with highly precise water temps give a good brew. There are a few machines out there that deliver this. You can go manual with a french press or a Chemex.

I've found that when brewing 10 cups or more a flat bottomed works OK. It's making 2 or 4 cups where they fail. Cone filters rule on the lesser amounts.

Back in the '80s I went on a bicycle tour from Munich to Vienna. Asking for a coffee there got a cup of what we call expresso. When I got home I wound up getting an expresso maker. Goes to show that when most people travel, they become cultured. Me, I just pick up another bad habit.

-Tom