Bandsaw Decision

[Patrick Kane]

I need to draw on the greater knowledge here, because I am STYMIED on this one. I started a thread awhile ago comparing an older MM16 to a newer MM16. Received tons of great info on that thread, and I made my decision. Unfortunately, the seller dropped off the face of the earth on me, so my eye began to wander. Worked another deal on another saw, and of course the MM16 owner is back and ready to move. Here is my decision:

Laguna LT20(Italian) with 4.5hp baldor motor for $2400ish OR First Gen MM16 with the 3.6hp motor, 12-13" resaw, and after market carter guides for $1600. They both are in Fair to Good condition. There is some surface rust on both, and unsure of tire condition. Both are hobbyist machines, but somewhat serious hobbyists. The MM16 has a busted switch.

Pros of the laguna are it is bigger(duh) and the ceramic guides interest me. It isn't THAT much more dough to get a bigger saw.
Cons of the laguna are some rust on the pulley and wheels and interior cabinet, 3/4" blade has been under some tension on it for a few months, and the height makes me nervous as hell. My basement is 84" to the bottom of joists. Laguna lists the newest version of the LT20 as 86" tall. However, I read posts from guys saying the machine is not actually that tall, and the 86" is with the guide post fully raised. Also need to run a dedicated 30amp line to this machine, which would require some fiddling about with my maxed out sub panel. It just means the unisaw's dedicated breaker would be removed in favor of this saw's 30amp, and the unisaw and jointer can share a duplex 20amp line.

Pros of the MM16 is its cheaper, it will absolutely fit in my basement space, probably wont be as much of a hassle to move, much closer so the freight carrier has less chance of completely destroying it, minimax has a perceived higher build quality(speculative), and it is 3hp so I can run it off an existing 20amp 220v line because its going next to my 12" jointer.
Cons are the switch, it isn't an awesome final price on a semi outdated machine and there is a chance that I may outgrow this machine's capacity, but this is unlikely. 12" resaw capacity is no slouch.


I am relatively new to woodworking and own a 14" jet POS right now. I strongly dislike that machine. I want a bandsaw for general furniture building, bowl blanks, resawing etc. Saving money is cool, but not making the "best" decision is not. $2000 was about my budget when I started looking, so the laguna is right around there after selling my jet. The minimax is even better after selling my jet.

[Andrew Hughes]

20 inch if you can fit it.Longer blade,With a 20 you can also have a variety of blade to choose from..020 to .035 thick.
Its just no comparing a 16 to a 20 inch wheel.
But if it doesn't fit in your basement then that's a bummer.
I have a 14 and a 20 inch saw The longer blade lasts longer cause it has more teeth.

[john lawson]

Not a hard decision, if the 20" fits in your shop you get it. End of discussion.

[Ben Rivel]

Have you considered offerings from Hammer and Felder? The N4400, FB-510, FB-610 are all amazing saws and in your price/quality/capability range. I went with a Hammer N4400 for my first real bandsaw and am very glad I skipped the cheaper chinese offerings.

[Frankie Hunt]

Not a hard decision, if the 20" fits in your shop you get it. End of discussion.


+1

Easy decision.

[Allan Speers]

Patrick, you knew the answer before posting! :D

[Michael Sloop]

Hey Patrick. I actually bought my used Laguna ACM LT20 last weekend. It is AMAZING. An absolute monster. I just went to my shop and it measures 84" from the base to the magnetic shutoff switch on top. It's 83" without the magnetic switch. But, I haven't put a mobile base on it yet. I payed $2300 for mine.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Not a hard decision, if the 20" fits in your shop you get it. End of discussion.
Bingo .

[John TenEyck]

The guy with the MM16 stiffed you for how long? Why would you reward him now?

John

[Cody Colston]

Not a hard decision, if the 20" fits in your shop you get it. End of discussion.

I agree, with the following suggestion...

If that 14" Jet is at all serviceable and if you have the shop space for it, keep it along with the larger bandsaw. Having the smaller saw for curved cuts and using the big saw for mostly re-sawing or ripping thick stock will save you loads of time in blade changes and set-up.

[Patrick Kane]

Have you considered offerings from Hammer and Felder? The N4400, FB-510, FB-610 are all amazing saws and in your price/quality/capability range. I went with a Hammer N4400 for my first real bandsaw and am very glad I skipped the cheaper chinese offerings.


Hey Ben, I cant say I did consider the saws you mentioned. Well, not entirely true, there is a very very gently used FB-610 2-3 hours from me that the guy has been trying to sell for atleast 12 months. It is an expensive saw, 24"(remember ceiling height and basement here) and when I brought it up on the forums previously guys were very anti-felder BS. The N4400 looks pretty good, but $2800+ extras is still outside my budget. Plus, Im looking more like $2350 for this used LT20 to my door, which has more power, more resaw, heavier, and arguably better guide system. New is nice because it's pretty pain-free, but im a used guy all day long.

[Patrick Kane]

Thanks Michael, I had the seller measure the saw and he said 83" as well. I must have been a knucklehead when I measured my basement ceilings, because I re-measured last night and i vary from 85-86" to bottom of joist where I plan to put this saw. I can fit it by the skin of my teeth! It definitely has a carbide blade on it from the pictures, but I cant tell the width of the blade. If this blade was under tension for 2-3 months do you think its compromised? I know that is a separate discussion for tensioning/detensioning blades. Seems like the 24-36" wheels have the diameter to leave a blade tensioned at all times. Im curious to see if the blade will be a bonus.

And yes, you all are correct, I sort had my mind made up prior to posting, and I actually already purchased the saw before responding to the posts. Everyone's responses pushed me over the edge. I guess ill throw that quote out there that is along the lines of, "when we ask for advice, what we are really looking for is an accomplice".

Question on shipping. I told the seller to bolt it to a pallet and encase the whole thing in cardboard and plastic. Do I need to tell them to detension the motor? Detension the blade or leave it? Anything else to consider? Shipping big tools makes me so damn nervous. I shouldnt be, the freight carriers ive dealt with have been extremely careful and good at their job, but still too many poor fedex/UPS/USPS experiences with regular packages. Anything I can do on the front end to make sure it gets here fully functional is something I want to do. Im so damn pumped to get this thing in the shop and setup. Pretty much completes my big tool purchases for a few years.

[David Eisenhauer]

I have had my blade tensioned on my MM 16 for years now.

[David Kumm]

I'd either remove or block under the table so it doesn't vibrate on the trunnions. ACM 540 with a baldor motor would be my preference over a 610 so don't second guess yourself. Dave

[Ben Rivel]

Hey Ben, I cant say I did consider the saws you mentioned. Well, not entirely true, there is a very very gently used FB-610 2-3 hours from me that the guy has been trying to sell for atleast 12 months. It is an expensive saw, 24"(remember ceiling height and basement here) and when I brought it up on the forums previously guys were very anti-felder BS. The N4400 looks pretty good, but $2800+ extras is still outside my budget. Plus, Im looking more like $2350 for this used LT20 to my door, which has more power, more resaw, heavier, and arguably better guide system. New is nice because it's pretty pain-free, but im a used guy all day long.
Man, wish I had one for sale near me!

And who here is anti-Felder?! Ive never heard of that. They are one of the top of the line brands, arguably better than Mini-Max if not on the exact same level.

[Erik Loza]

...arguably better than Mini-Max if not on the exact same level.

Not instigating anything, just curious to know what makes you feel this way. If you care to explain. Curious to hear what features or advantages a saw like ACM or some other brand has over Centauro, assuming similar price point. Again, I'm not going to argue with anyone. Just curious to know why someone feels this or that brand is "better", if you don't mind if I ask.

Erik

[Alan Schwabacher]

You got one and should be happy with it.

But a general strategy in this case might be to say that if the less expensive one is not a low enough price to convince you, how low would that be? Offer that, and if he takes it you get a very good price. If not, you buy the other.

[mreza Salav]

Get the Laguna one and it'll be your last saw. Being under tension for a few months (or even longer) is nothing to worry about, same with a bit of rust. You can clean it up if you care.

[Patrick Kane]

You got one and should be happy with it.

But a general strategy in this case might be to say that if the less expensive one is not a low enough price to convince you, how low would that be? Offer that, and if he takes it you get a very good price. If not, you buy the other.

oddly enough, I think that's why the mm16 went silent on me for awhile. I offered him 1050, because of the switch and shipping. Never heard from him again, until it was the last saw available and I crawled back to him accepting the $1200. He then responded the next day saying he would get ready to package it. Well, I ended up doing one last search for machines and that's when the Laguna LT20 came up. The mm16 would be a decent price if I was within driving distance, but shipping is the same for both saws. Factor in the resaw capacity of gen 1 mm16, and the fact that I should Have looked for a 20" machine to begin with and the rest was downhill.

Glad to hear that carbide blade won't be ruin. I just looked up how much those suckers are and $300 is freaking ridiculous. My Forrest blades aren't cheap, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the resaw Kings.

[Robert Payne]

Just one caution about your ceiling height and the saw height. The saw probably must be moved into your work space in a vertical position as it will exceed its in-place height and hit the ceiling if you need to tip it upright to bring it to final position. Just sayin...

[Patrick Kane]

Yeah, I am most worried about getting it through the man door from my garage to my basement. I think it will need to be tilted at more of an angle at that point to get it through the door. Then, you are absolutely right that you need some additional space to account for the tilt into vertical position. One, im hoping 3" is enough wiggle room for it to tilt. If not, I will position it so it is between joists and have another foot of head room to tilt it into position. This assumes the upper cabinet isn't wider than 14" though! It is paid for, so im not going to think about it and just hope for the best.