A "problem" with LV dovetail saw ??

[Brian Hale]

Hey All

I recently bought the LV 14tpi dovetail saw and I'm not sure it's performing the way it should and I'm hoping you guys may have the same saw and can provide some feedback.

I'm butchering some dovetails on 3/4" mahogany and 5/8" birch, about 30 cuts so far. The saw starts ok and cuts straight as an arrow. If I let the saw do the cutting it tends to hop through the cut and then sort of get stuck, requiring a good amount of force to get it moving again. If I apply downward cutting pressure it cuts fast but leaves a very rough cut surface which needs to be pared or it will be visible after joint assembly. Forcing the saw down also degrades my accuracy. There seems to be no happy medium.

Before I go to LV for an exchange, do any you folks have a similar experience? The tooth geometry appears good and there is just the right amount of set. This is my first "store bought" saw, my others are vintage saws that I've sharpened to varying degrees of quality but don't have the same problems.

Brian :)

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

Try a line of wax just above the tooth line. If this "cures" the problem, then the issue is likely to be too little set.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

If you return the saw,I am sure they will send you another. Or,if you visit me,I have a special saw set that will do the smallest of teeth. You cannot buy this saw set anywhere as it is an old tool from the early 20th. C.. I can get you started and let you put a bit more set into your teeth. Search for my post "Is this the World's greatest saw set ?" to see pictures of it.

[Brian Hale]

Hi Brian

Try a line of wax just above the tooth line. If this "cures" the problem, then the issue is likely to be too little set.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek. That's the first thing i tried but no joy :(

[Patrick Chase]

Hey All

I recently bought the LV 14tpi dovetail saw and I'm not sure it's performing the way it should and I'm hoping you guys may have the same saw and can provide some feedback.

I'm butchering some dovetails on 3/4" mahogany and 5/8" birch, about 30 cuts so far. The saw starts ok and cuts straight as an arrow. If I let the saw do the cutting it tends to hop through the cut and then sort of get stuck, requiring a good amount of force to get it moving again. If I apply downward cutting pressure it cuts fast but leaves a very rough cut surface which needs to be pared or it will be visible after joint assembly. Forcing the saw down also degrades my accuracy. There seems to be no happy medium.

Before I go to LV for an exchange, do any you folks have a similar experience? The tooth geometry appears good and there is just the right amount of set. This is my first "store bought" saw, my others are vintage saws that I've sharpened to varying degrees of quality but don't have the same problems.

Brian :)

Can you measure the set on your saw?

That saw nominally comes with 3 mils/side (toothline 6 mils wider than plate). Mine measured closer to 3.5 mils/side. If your saw has the specified 3 mils/side of set then adding to it may not be such a good idea.

Do you have another saw that already works for you, that you could use as a baseline to determine your preferences and therefore how to make the Veritas work for you?

[Brian Hale]

Very kind offer George, Thank You!

Although i've got several saw sets, setting the teeth on my#70 16 tpi is an exercise in frustration. It's a shame because i feel that saw could be a wonderful performer.

I don't think the set on this LV saw is the problem, i just may take you up on your offer for my #70!!

[Brian Hale]

Patrick

The plate measures .020 and total set is .0277, .00385 per side, very close to what they advertise.

I've got a few other rip back saws i've been tinkering with, mostly in the 11 tpi range, that work ok but i'm still having problems getting a consistent set on those. I was hopeful this LV saw would Show Me The Light on how a good saw should cut.


I must say, out of all the saws i have, this LV saw fits my hand like no other, simply wonderful.

[Don Orr]

If you have enough extra set would it be worth stoning each side as lightly as possible with your finest stone? One or 2 LIGHT passes on each side. Maybe there are burrs left from the factory sharpening that are holding the saw back a little ? Just a wild guess, but it might help.

[lowell holmes]

Frank Klausz uses a screwdriver set in his Hand Tools video. You just take a small screwdriver, place in the gullet of every other tooth and gently twist the screw driver. Try it, it works.

[William M Johnson]

Hmmm. I guess I will prove my ignorance here. I have that saw and recently finished 18 drawers with all 4 sides cut by hand. These are the only hand cut dovetails I have ever done. My experience is exactly what you described. I just did not know if this was "normal"or not. I assumed I was ham handed and needed lots of practice ( after 18 drawers that was as much practice as I wanted). I am watching with interest what happens here.

Bill

[Brian Loran]

could the plate be heating up and distorting? Maybe not tensioned right?

[Patrick Chase]

Frank Klausz uses a screwdriver set in his Hand Tools video. You just take a small screwdriver, place in the gullet of every other tooth and gently twist the screw driver. Try it, it works.

On a saw that already has 3.5-4 mils/side of set? I think we've pretty much established that insufficient set isn't the problem here.

Brian, like William I've had good experiences with that saw. If anything I found the default tune (14 deg rake) to be *too* smooth-cutting at the expense of speed. I refiled mine with 10 deg of rake. Sounds like maybe a return is in order.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Just a thought- could be technique; moving the saw back and forth in the cut, thus causing the plate to bend. The saw starts to bind, operator pulls and gets saw unbound and unwittingly also straightens the slight bend. Sawyer starts next dovetail and saw seems to cut well, but same thing happens. Just a thought.

[John Kananis]

I have that saw and find that you need to 'help' the saw a tiny bit. Not too much pressure because you will get the results you describe but try adding the weight of your arm into the cut. Once I got used to it, its been pretty awesome (but I know what you're talking about).

[Jim Koepke]

My thinking was along the line of what Malcolm mentioned. That and the problems that slightly green or resinous wood can cause.

jtk

[Mike Brady]

Modern saws aren't tensioned in the traditional sense. The steel is used right off of the roll. I taught a class last year in which the students all had new LV saws. The three that I tried I found to be a bit hard to start and labored in the cut, especially for these beginners. That said, the saw is still in a class by itself for value. They certainly could be tuned to cut differently. As regards the poster's saw, I would recommend returning it unaltered if he expects a full credit. Taking advice from someone sight-unseen is risky, and LV should not be expected to make good a boogered-up saw. Knowing them, they might swap it out in any case.

[george wilson]

That's BUGGERED UP. boogered up would be a snotty saw!:)

[Mike Brady]

That's BUGGERED UP.


:o That, too!

[Patrick Chase]

I have that saw and find that you need to 'help' the saw a tiny bit. Not too much pressure because you will get the results you describe but try adding the weight of your arm into the cut. Once I got used to it, its been pretty awesome (but I know what you're talking about).

I saw (and felt) the same, until I refiled with more aggressive rake.

[Brian Hale]

Thanks for all your help!!

I see 3 choices .... Send it back for a refund, ask for an exchange or re-file.

I'm going to take ownership of the saw and re-file it (i'll have to do that sooner or later anyway), first a bit more aggressive and if that doesn't help i'll relax the rake a bit. Either way i'll re-file the first 1 1/2" of teeth at a very relaxed angle, like most of my other saws, for easier starting. I've really grown to like that feature.

And for those that suggested it could be my sawing technique....... STOP PEEKING!
Seriously, I'm getting better all the time but still flounder about often and at first took a long hard look at what I was doing, figuring that all my other saws I had filed and now that I had a "Professionally" filed saw I might need to re-learn myself.

Anyway, thanks again!!

Brian :)

[Pat Barry]

I'm going to take ownership of the saw and re-file it (i'll have to do that sooner or later anyway), first a bit more aggressive....
If you are having the sort of difficulty as you described I don't see how being more aggressive with the sharpening will help you. It would seem more likely that a less aggressive rake would be the ticket.

[Robert Engel]

Situations like this always beg the question, "Is it me, or the tool?".

It seems, for me at least, more often than not, its me, not the tool.

I have this saw and have not experienced this problem but that's not to say there was an error in the sharpening.

I think you're on the right track, but personally I would hesitate to change anything about the set or sharpening.

[Luke Dupont]

Because I've been shopping around for Dovetail Saws, and I'm not entirely clear on this: Is the Lee Valley saw the Veritas? Or is it a Gent's saw?

[Joe Bailey]

Hey All

I recently bought the LV 14tpi dovetail saw and I'm not sure it's performing the way it should ...

Brian :)

Unless they make a 14 TPI gents saw (none that I know of) I assume the OP is talking about a Veritas, molded spine saw.

[Brian Thornock]

I've got this saw and have not had the same experience. I still need to find the touch to get it started sometimes, but mine at least cuts well even with light pressure on the saw.

[Patrick Chase]

Because I've been shopping around for Dovetail Saws, and I'm not entirely clear on this: Is the Lee Valley saw the Veritas? Or is it a Gent's saw?

The Gent's saws are also Veritas.

Joe hit the nail on the head - if it's a 14 tpi "LV dovetail saw" then it's this one (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884,64007).

[Brian Hale]

You guys are correct, the saw i bought was not the Gents saw rather the "standard" style saw :)