Bow saw blade options?

[Luke Dupont]

Hi folks. I've been having a lot of fun with bow saws recently; I've made a couple for fine wood-working, and also a few (in a traditional style) for the bushcraft crowd. It's a lot of fun, and I'm starting to get good at this mortise and tenon thing ;)

However, I still haven't found a blade that I feel suits what I want personally in a bow saw. I've tried the Milwaukee 10-14TPI Bi-metal Bandsaw blades (I think they're about 1/2" in width), and they're not bad. They don't have a wavy set, they're quite thin, and they rip pretty well. I do not like the aggressive hook teeth, though, and I'd like something a little wider (about 1" or so) for long, accurate cuts.

I've also bought a Gramarcy 9TPI rip blade. It's nice, but it's rather large, and quite thick. My goal is to make a small, portable bow-saw that I can keep in my tool-tote, and travel with. Something around 18-20" or so. The Gramarcy blade is nice; I like that it's resharpenable and all. But, it's just too wide and too thick for a smaller saw. I'd also prefer something in the 10-14TPI range.

I've seen people using Japanese blades on their bow-saws, but most of them are cross-cut, and very expensive (at around $40!). They also don't look very traditional, which is a turn off for me.

So, I've been searching for custom bandsaw blades recently, trying to figure out if anyone sells them with less aggressive (non hook) teeth, and in widths upwards of 1/2", but still with 10+TPI and a thin kerf. Not much luck so far; the vast majority are everything I don't want; huge kerf/aggressive set, aggressive hook teeth, narrow, and low TPI. The only ones that seem semi-decent are comparable to the Milwaukee blades that I already have (which, being for metal, are hella-difficult to drill through! Even bought a special spade bit for drilling metal which, after 6 holes, is almost worn out. Most of my other bits didn't last one hole!). And, since they're so hard, I can't just fix the teeth with a file. Meh.

Now, I'm not the best at google-fu, and know next to nothing about bandsaw blades, so I figured that someone more knowledgeable might be able to point me in the right direction as to what I should be searching for. Alternatively, does anyone know of some alternatives to the gramarcy/japanese blades that might fit the bill for me?

I wonder if I could find someone to make custom blades for me...

[Mike Holbrook]

Highland Woodworking and WoodJoy tools both sell Japanese Turbo-Cut bowsaw blades. These blades have hardened teeth like many of the Japanese pruning and woodworking saws. The teeth are hard or impossible to sharpen but they last a very long time and cut very fast. You typically just replace blades if/when they wear out. A collection of: rip,crosscut, universal and jigging Turbo-Cut blades makes a single bowsaw a very versatile tool.

[Luke Dupont]

Highland Woodworking and WoodJoy tools both sell Japanese Turbo-Cut bowsaw blades. These blades have hardened teeth like many of the Japanese pruning and woodworking saws. The teeth are hard or impossible to sharpen but they last a very long time and cut very fast. You typically just replace blades if/when they wear out. A collection of: rip,crosscut, universal and jigging Turbo-Cut blades makes a single bowsaw a very versatile tool.

Yep, that's what appeals to me so much about the bow saw; rather than having a dedicated rip saw, crosscut saw (not that anyone needs one ;)), dovetail/tenon saw, and coping saw, I can just have a single bow saw with a few blades for different tasks. I also prefer the design over conventional panel saws; you don't get any binding at all, and the blade remains tensioned, allowing it to be thinner. And last but not least, they're incredibly beautiful tools. I don't see why they're not far more popular.

I've looked at the Japanese Turbo-Cut blades, as I mentioned; I might eventually settle on them, but they're not really my ideal, and quite expensive to boot. I am curious though; have you used them? They do seem like they would perform nicely. I'd just prefer something more traditional looking, a little less pricey (well, maybe $40 is okay, if it's exactly what I want. But I don't imagine a simple 18" bow-saw blade should cost that much), dedicated rip teeth, and (maybe even) resharpen-able, and in the dimensions I'm looking for. While I don't expect I'll be able to find all of that necessarily, the turbo-cut blades fall outside most of those criteria.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have operated a 12 acre very wooded dog park on a flood plain for around 20 years. I use Japanese saw blades in Silky arborist saws, pole saws and folding saws all the time. The Silky saw blades are very similar to the Turbo-Cut blades. I have only replaced one Silky blade. I got that blade stuck trying to do too much too fast and broke a tooth or two and the tip of the blade. I take down large tree limbs and small trees with these saws regularly. I only get out the chain saw for felling big trees. I just created a 30' wide x 12' tall pile of pruned limbs from apple & pear trees using a couple Silky saws. It is pretty hard to break teeth or break a blade and I work at it pretty hard. I have three folding Silky woodworking saws which I have used for many years. I have a few slightly bent teeth but they work pretty much like the day I bought them.

So, I was use to the Japanese hardened teeth blades before I started using them in my WoodJoy 400mm bow saw. I have a Universal and a "Jigging" blade for my bowsaw and have been using them for at least a couple years. The jigging blade is for making turning cuts. The universal blade is heavier and wider, it has worked well for me in most other situations. I doubt either of my blades is significantly duller than it was when I bought it. If you are use to using any kind of bowsaw blade I think you will be surprised how well the Turbo-Cut blades work and how long they last.

[Patrick Chase]

So, I was use to the Japanese hardened teeth blades before I started using them in my WoodJoy 400mm bow saw. I have a Universal and a "Jigging" blade for my bowsaw and have been using them for at least a couple years. The jigging blade is for making turning cuts. The universal blade is heavier and wider, it has worked well for me in most other situations. I doubt either of my blades is significantly duller than it was when I bought it. If you are use to using any kind of bowsaw blade I think you will be surprised how well the Turbo-Cut blades work and how long they last.

Do you cut on the push or pull with the Turbo-Cuts? I realize that both are possible, just wondering what you chose.

[steven c newman]

Hate to say this...but....look at those metal cutting blades for a plumber's bandsaw, the ones they can carry around, Cut the band to the length you need, drill the pin holes, and try them out.

That, or get a Bosch 80" 1/2" wide blade to cut up. Maybe a $10 spot to find out?

[Stew Denton]

Hi Luke,

Don't know if this is a good idea, but thought it might be worth mentioning as a possibility.

I have an old 21" Great Neck bow saw, the type used for trimming branches from trees. I used it to cut up firewood while camping. It is the orange steel tubing variety.

The blades are fairly thin, and seem to be good steel. The teeth are exactly what you DON'T want, BUT the part of the blade that would be left after you ground off the teeth would be 1/2 inch wide. What I am thinking is that you could possibly grind off the teeth and then cut your own teeth and sharpen it however you liked.

I see the replacement blades on that auction site, for $11 to $14, which includes shipping. Most for this price are the 30" variety, but there are some 21" too, which is a bit longer than you want, but not much longer. I saw 2 blades for $20 on there, which includes shipping.

What I DON'T know is if the teeth are induction hardened with an electric current or arc, or whether the entire blade is heat treated. My Great Neck bow saw is about 20 years old, and I don't use it much now, but the teeth still cut well, and it is the original blade..

Some hardware stores, big box stores, or such might have them locally for less than Fleabay. Just a thought, and with the question about the type of heat treating you are taking a bit of a chance, but if you don't mind fighting the re-toothing and sharpening approach, it might work.

If I were going to make a 1" wide blade, I would buy an old miter box back saw. I have seen several go on Fleabay for about $40 to $50 delivered, but you could make 3 or 4 20 inch blades from one. With those old "Made in USA" blades, there would be no problem with the steel. You could make 2 1" wide blades and 2 or 3 1/2" wide blade from the same back saw. Because of the spline on the top of the back, the spline stiffens that blade, so the blades can be and normally are fairly thin steel, and might work for what you are wanting. You can cut the steel to size with a small right angle grinder, a rotozip, or a Dremel, all of these using one of their cutting wheels.

Again, just my two bit thoughts, but in you spot I would definitely consider such an option.

Stew

[Luke Dupont]

Hi Luke,

Don't know if this is a good idea, but thought it might be worth mentioning as a possibility.

I have an old 21" Great Neck bow saw, the type used for trimming branches from trees. I used it to cut up firewood while camping. It is the orange steel tubing variety.

The blades are fairly thin, and seem to be good steel. The teeth are exactly what you DON'T want, BUT the part of the blade that would be left after you ground off the teeth would be 1/2 inch wide. What I am thinking is that you could possibly grind off the teeth and then cut your own teeth and sharpen it however you liked.

I see the replacement blades on that auction site, for $11 to $14, which includes shipping. Most for this price are the 30" variety, but there are some 21" too, which is a bit longer than you want, but not much longer. I saw 2 blades for $20 on there, which includes shipping.

What I DON'T know is if the teeth are induction hardened with an electric current or arc, or whether the entire blade is heat treated. My Great Neck bow saw is about 20 years old, and I don't use it much now, but the teeth still cut well, and it is the original blade..

Some hardware stores, big box stores, or such might have them locally for less than Fleabay. Just a thought, and with the question about the type of heat treating you are taking a bit of a chance, but if you don't mind fighting the re-toothing and sharpening approach, it might work.

If I were going to make a 1" wide blade, I would buy an old miter box back saw. I have seen several go on Fleabay for about $40 to $50 delivered, but you could make 3 or 4 20 inch blades from one. With those old "Made in USA" blades, there would be no problem with the steel. You could make 2 1" wide blades and 2 or 3 1/2" wide blade from the same back saw. Because of the spline on the top of the back, the spline stiffens that blade, so the blades can be and normally are fairly thin steel, and might work for what you are wanting. You can cut the steel to size with a small right angle grinder, a rotozip, or a Dremel, all of these using one of their cutting wheels.

Again, just my two bit thoughts, but in you spot I would definitely consider such an option.

Stew

Hi Stew, thanks for the response! That's actually an interesting idea. I've looked at the Bahco blades that I used for my bushcraft-style bow saws that I built, and have actually wondered if that might be feasible. I actually might give it a shot at some point! The metal is quite thin, which I like, and I recently saw Paul Seller's method of recutting/filing teeth, and kind of want to give it a try.

I think I will give the 1.5", 9TPI blade I bought from Highlandwoodworking a try first, and see if I don't wind up liking it though.

But, yeah! I've been thinking of trying my hand at making a saw blade recently. Eying a 3x6" card scraper that looks like it might make for a good little dovetail saw...

[Mark Fisher]

If you are going to start from scratch anyway, I'd try getting some pre-hardened 1095 spring steel from a place like McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-spring-steel-sheets/=11s3e26). You could get pre-hardened, cut to length and anneal the ends with a torch to put your holes in it then file the teeth. This feels like a better place to start since you can get exactly the thickness and width you want.

[Mike Holbrook]

Patrick, missed your question at first. You bring up an interesting point regarding this type saw and particularly these blades.

I only have a 400mm saw with a universal blade and jigging blade, both of which look more like the CC blades for larger saws. I have never found specific CC or Rip blades for the 400mm saw, although I do see them for the larger 600mm saws. The universal teeth have a slight curl/lean toward the rear. I have found that cutting on the pull stroke, with too much pressure, can cause a good deal of vibration, especially when ripping. As a result I tend to lighten up on the pressure on the pull stroke as compared to the push stroke. I also use the knob/handle more for guiding and steadying the blade. I do more of the pushing and pulling with my upper hand around the saw frame up near the cross piece.

I think the blade actually cuts better on the pull stroke with light pressure, which is typical of most of the Japanese saws I use. I'm not sure this means I am cutting more on the push stroke. I think I actually make more progress on the pull stroke. The nice thing about this blade also making progress on the push stroke is it makes the blade easy to start. These blades are usually in cutting rhythm in a single stroke. Sometimes I use it to start cuts and then move to a saw with larger teeth.

These saws, particularly with these blades, do not reward a hard pushing and pulling style, which is why i think some people do not like them. I think the fact that I spend a good deal of time using Japanese arborist saws, with thin flexible blades, has helped me to adjust to this different sawing rhythm.

[Luke Dupont]

...I have found that cutting on the pull stroke, with too much pressure, can cause a good deal of vibration, especially when ripping. As a result I tend to lighten up on the pressure on the pull stroke as compared to the push stroke.

That's to do with orientation of the grain. I noticed that when ripping with a Ryoba; assuming a downwards angle on the work, if you orient the teeth towards you while ripping, the teeth are biting into, and wedging underneath the endgrain/ends of the straws as opposed to shearing them off. So, when ripping on the pull stroke, it's best to approach the work from a different angle.

Because of this, I tend to push on rip cuts, and pull on crosscuts. But if I'm working in a vice, where the angles are different, I may reorient the saw to match.

A lot of people argue for one method or another; push or pull, missing the bigger point (which is "are you working with, or against the grain?"). It does matter, even when sawing :)

[Luke Dupont]

If you are going to start from scratch anyway, I'd try getting some pre-hardened 1095 spring steel from a place like McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-spring-steel-sheets/=11s3e26). You could get pre-hardened, cut to length and anneal the ends with a torch to put your holes in it then file the teeth. This feels like a better place to start since you can get exactly the thickness and width you want.

Hi Mark - awesome! Thanks for the link. I had actually looked around trying to find where I could buy strips of metal that would work, and didn't even know where to begin/couldn't find anything. What kind of hardness would be acceptable for a saw? It looks like their pre-hardened/tempered spring steel strips are still fairly soft - 46c, or so. I'm okay with something on the softer side, I think, but I don't know what the normal range is for saw blades.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Luke,

I was reading Michael Dunbar's book "Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools" last night, and in it Michael states that he uses a large bow saw to cut out Windsor Chair seats from 2" pine. I have seen him do this on a Youtube video, and he cuts amazingly fast with it. He made a living making chairs, so knows what he is about. If he used such a blade then you know it has to be good.

In the book he says he uses a 6 point blade cut from a band saw blade for such work.

Stew

[Luke Dupont]

Thanks. I've been using very hard metal cutting bandsaw blades, which is problematic because I can't reprofile the teeth or even drill mounting holes without ruining my drill bit/files. However, I recently saw Paul Sellers had a video in which he used a torch to anneal the very same kind of blade I've been using in order to refile it, so I think I'll give that a shot!