Starting Over - Combo Machine or Dedicated

[Bud Kincaid]

I have an unusual opportunity. I just sold my current house, and the purchaser bought my ww machinery, including table saw, jointer, router table, planer, etc. It is good that I don't have to move everything, but not so good that I'm not sure what to do. My current shop is 900 sq ft, so the separate equipment was not an issue at all. My new shop will be smaller, about 14 X 25 feet. I would appreciate opinions from the Creek about taking this opportunity to go with a combination machine instead of dedicated machines...TS (likely Unisaw or Saw Stop), 8 inch jointer, etc.

I am a hobbyist woodworker, getting close to retirement. I just do ww'ing for fun, so speed is not an issue. I typically work with both lumber and plywood. Thanks to all that offer opinions either way.

Bud Kincaid

[John Lankers]

That's a tough one since your new shop is only 14' wide. If you would go with a full combo you need full (and I mean full) access from 4 sides, for saw/shaper and jointer/planer combos you could place the machines on opposing walls keeping the center of the shop free. I had a Felder CF531 for 5 years and it was always blocking the path for me, now I have a KF700 Pro and a AD 741 which are much bigger than my previous combo but I have more room to work. Also, mobility kits can become very cumbersome very fast, especially when the floor is not 100% flat and level.

[Joe Jensen]

My first table saw was a 1970s era Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence. In 1990 I upgraded to a new PM66. In 2005 a salesman at the tool store convinced my wife that I needed to upgrade to a SawStop ICS (wow, awesome saw). In 2010 I switched to a Felder Saw/Shaper slider and sold the SawStop ICS and my PM26 shaper. Huge upgrade over a cabinet saw in that with the slider all panels are square (assuming you want them to be). I absolutely love the slider. Ideally the slider would have the Sawstop technology but I think sliders are way safer than tradition cabinet saws and I haven't missed the sawstop technology.

[Erik Loza]

My vote is for a full combo. Many, MANY customers with a 4-in-1 machine in that kind of space. 2-car garage, etc.

Erik

[Rod Sheridan]

I have 2 combination machines in a smaller shop.

I find the saw/shaper and the jointer/planer to be the best solution for rectangular shaped shops.

The more square 4 or 5 function machines fit better in a square shop.

In my opinion, yes you should purchase a couple of combination machines, you'll get more capacity and capability than with separates, at a lower cost than for comparable single function machines.

Have a look at Felder/Hammer/MiniMax, all great machines.

You could never convince me to go backwards to a cabinet saw since I've owned a European sliding saw.............Regards, Rod.

[mreza Salav]

I have fairly good machines (ICS sawstop, 14" Minimax J/P, etc) but if I was to start over I would seriously consider a 5-combo machine that comes with a 16" J/P (like the 410 series from Minimax). if you can swing the $ that should be your last upgrade.

[Erik Loza]

...if I was to start over I would seriously consider a 5-combo machine that comes with a 16" J/P (like the 410 series from Minimax). if you can swing the $ that should be your last upgrade.

The initial investment, not the fact that it works better in the guy's space, is the #1 objection I hear, to purchasing a 4-in-1 over a jointer/planer, then saw/shaper. Of course, going that route actually costs you more in the end. But I get the difference between $4K and $10K. One dust drop, one electrical hookup, just dedicate one area of wall to hanging your fences, clamps, etc, and you will have half the clutter, no hoses running everywhere, etc. of two separates. Out of all the 4-in-1 combos I've put into customer's garages, I've never had one owner tell me they wished thay had separates. Just my experience.

Erik

334694

[Peter Aeschliman]

Bud, given that you're getting close to retirement, I would encourage you to try to anticipate the kinds of projects you're going to be doing in 10 or 15 years. Hopefully you don't find this insulting because that certainly isn't my intention, especially given that I don't know your level of physical fitness or strength, but I imagine the average retiree who is halfway through his/her retirement, isn't terribly keen on wrestling a full sheet of 3/4 ply onto a table saw, or moving a super heavy machine around to switch operations.

Do you see yourself doing 8' long straight line rips on the slider? Or could you use a track saw for that? Do you see yourself using the slider to cross-cut 8' long workpieces (ply or hardwood), where you need nearly 8' to the right of the saw? Or will you by a sliding compound miter saw for that cut?

In a 14' wide space, I have to agree with Rod- a full combo machine might not be a good fit (literally). Especially if you want to use the slot mortiser AND the slider for long cross-cuts.

I know many of the full combo machines come with mobility kits that allow you to rotate the machine's orientation. But if you think about taking a rough workpiece through the milling process on a full sized 5 function machine, and then cutting mortises in the end grain of rails, I think you'll find that you have to rotate the machine a few times in that process. With a J/P combo and a separate saw/shaper, you wouldn't need to move machines around, especially if you use a Domino for your slot mortises.

So again, I'm going to vote with rod: a high quality Jointer/Planer combo machine, and a separate saw/shaper combo. With a power feeder that folds down!!

I have to say, I'm jealous. What a fun thing to start over knowing everything you know now!!

[Chris Padilla]

I'd say for sure you'd want to at least combine your jointer and planer. I have a MM FS41 Elite 16" (410 mm is about 16") combo j/p. While the width of my planer isn't much to write home about, the kicker is that I have a 16" wide jointer and that is the cat's meow if you work with much rough lumber (which I do) so I love it. Everything else I have is separate in my 2-car garage.

[pat warner]

Money not critical? Then individual machines.
A combo is always a compromise.
Get 4 swivel casters for everything, however.

[Prashun Patel]

Individual machines may be better in theory, but i have a combo machine and love it. As long as it has quick changeover, it is good. It forces you to organize your ops.

The only downside is that you probably sacrifice planing capacity. But you increase your jointing capacity.

[Chris Fournier]

I've had individuals, the J/P combo with cabinet saw, and now the full monty combo SCM CU 410 and I'd suggest the full combo to you. My friend has the smaller 12" SCM combo machine and I think that it is a great machine, likely the one for you.

[Frank Martin]

I have the 5-function Minimax CU300 Smart with 12" J/P. Coming from Unisaw and Grizzly J/P. Love the Minimax. Would not go back. It is in a 2-car garage. Have not used the mortiser as I have a Festool Domino, but the rest works great for me.

[Chris Fournier]

I have the 5-function Minimax CU300 Smart with 12" J/P. Coming from Unisaw and Grizzly J/P. Love the Minimax. Would not go back. It is in a 2-car garage. Have not used the mortiser as I have a Festool Domino, but the rest works great for me.

That's the one my friend has! slot mortiser on it and you are missing a drill press and bandsaw only.

[Len Rosenberg]

I'd say for sure you'd want to at least combine your jointer and planer. I have a MM FS41 Elite 16" (410 mm is about 16") combo j/p. While the width of my planer isn't much to write home about, the kicker is that I have a 16" wide jointer and that is the cat's meow if you work with much rough lumber (which I do) so I love it. Everything else I have is separate in my 2-car garage.

I agree with Chris. I also have the Minimax FS41 Elite and love it. I don't find it to be a compromise other than the very minor inconvenience of raising/lowering the bed to switch from Jointer to Planer, which otherwise takes about 20 seconds. And having a 16" jointer is fantastic.

Len

[Mike Hollingsworth]

5 function MiniMax for ten years here. No compromise.

[Roy Harding]

I have a Felder CF531P - five functions (although I didn't buy the mortising attachment, so mine is four function.

My shop is 25' X 50', and the Felder is at one end, with the slider travelling along the 25' axis. I have about 3' clearance on the J/P side, and about 7' on the slider side (this enables me to "cross-cut" an 8' piece of sheet goods). So, total "working footprint", including "walking around room" is about 19' X 14'. I'm sure you could work in less, but I had the room so I used it to make life as comfortable as possible.

I wish I had it when I was working out of a two car garage.

I've been extremely happy with it (I've had it for about 8 years now). The one complaint I've heard from others regarding combos is having to switch back and forth between configurations. I've found that having the machine has encouraged me to work in a more disciplined manner, completing each process completely before carrying on to the next. It was the way I was taught to do things in trade school, but I got sloppy over the years.

It was expensive, to be sure, but less expensive than four separate machines with the same capabilities.

If you're a one man shop, I'd highly recommend it. If you envision two or more folks working in the shop at the same time, you may want to re-think it, but I don't think that's a consideration in your case as you describe yourself as a hobbyist (unless you've got older grand-children who'll be in there with you!)

Best of luck to you, whichever way you decide to go.

[Roy Harding]

I agree with Chris. I also have the Minimax FS41 Elite and love it. I don't find it to be a compromise other than the very minor inconvenience of raising/lowering the bed to switch from Jointer to Planer, which otherwise takes about 20 seconds. And having a 16" jointer is fantastic.

Len

I agree with Chris and Len - the ONLY compromise is the switchover from Jointer to Planer (and vis versa) - although, I AM jealous of the 16" jointer/planer; mine's "only" 12".