Question about Vectrics software

[Paul Lawrence]

I'm getting interested again in getting a CNC router, so I have been diligently studying software first. It's been about a decade, so I am really impressed with Vectrics software.

A question came up about modeling within the software. (I haven't downloaded a trial copy yet.)

I have a plank with dimensions of 4" x 6" x 1/2". I want to cut it out of a larger plank with additional features such as holes and grooves in one face.

Is it possible to model both rounded corners and 1/16" chamfered edges at the same time within Vectrics software?

I can easily do this with a hand router, but I have never been able to show both of these operations in my Sketchup models without resorting to some intersecting model tricks.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

By rounded corners, do you mean fillets?
How do you plan on cutting these rounded corners and chamfers?
If your cutting a chamfer with a V bit, then there's really no need to model it. Just cut along a vector at the appropriate depth. The preview will show the chamfer, with no need to model it.
A fillet would be similar, if you use a roundover bit. Modeling it would probably require a 2 rail sweep, but you might need to build your model from multiple components.
There's also a gadget that someone wrote to do fillets.

Remember that you don't have to model everything, as you can do simple tasks with simple vectors and form tools.

[Paul Lawrence]

I should have defined what I mean by model. The simplified version is that I might need to present images for approval before manufacturing, and it is nicer if they are very close to reality.


Remember that you don't have to model everything, as you can do simple tasks with simple vectors and form tools.

Thanks, Gerry. Good insight for me.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

With Aspire (or V Carve Pro), you get a preview of the finished part after machining, so if the tool will cut it, you'll se it inthe preview, whether it's in the model or not.

Nothing beats playing with the demo to find out if it will do what you need it to do.

[Bruce Page]

Paul, Vectric's V-Carve & Aspire will give you a pretty accurate preview. Some special or custom form tool geometry that you use may need to be added to the tool library but once it is added, the software will show it in the preview - at least that has been my experience.
Vectric has a great tutorial library: https://www.youtube.com/user/Vectric/videos

Here's a Vectric preview and actual picture of a simple coat rack I made for a friends granddaughter:

[Paul Lawrence]

I have seen most of the tutorials now, but I didn't see anything specifically like what I was asking for above. I know a CNC router will do the job, I just don't know if I can get it drawn in the first place.

[Gary Campbell]

Paul...
Yes you can do what you wish. Since you can "Easily accomplish this with a hand router" and "know a cnc router will do the job", one experienced with VCPro will be able to both present a preview of what you ask and perform the cutting actions. That said, the methodology behind both may be slightly different as corner rounding on a CNC is not the best use of the tool. Depending on material, it may be better to use the router table.

[Roy Harding]

Paul...
Yes you can do what you wish. Since you can "Easily accomplish this with a hand router" and "know a cnc router will do the job", one experienced with VCPro will be able to both present a preview of what you ask and perform the cutting actions. That said, the methodology behind both may be slightly different as corner rounding on a CNC is not the best use of the tool. Depending on material, it may be better to use the router table.

Gary is right.

There are many things that I CAN do with the CNC router, but are BETTER (defined as faster/easier) done on the router table or shaper. What those things may be will depend upon the tooling you have available to you in your particular shop, and your experience with your particular CNC.

[Paul Lawrence]

I understand that a CNC has some limits, and I am trying to find one of them. This operation is one that I would need to be repeated quite frequently, so the advantage of getting it done at the same time as other operations is great.

I'm imagining the operation would be to run the chamfered edge first and then round the corners as the part is cutout. I understand that the part has to be flipped and indexed to get both sides chamfered, so that may be the key to doing the chamfer on a manual router table.

The attached sketch is as close as I can get with Sketchup. I suppose the next thing I need to do is export as DXF and import into a trial version from Vectrix.

334538

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

To me, that looks like the corners are chamfered, and the edges rounded. Opposite of what you're saying?

Importing a 3D model of that will not be the most efficient method.
Aspire doesn't have an easy method of modeling a fillet or chamfer around the top and bottom edges.
But as we've been saying, you don't really need to model it.

The attached Aspire preview was created by drawing a simple rectangle with rounded corners, and applying two toolpaths. No model required.

[Paul Lawrence]

That answers my question just fine. With a few adjustments in my brain, my customer and a bank loan, I can be practicing in short order.

Thanks for the input.

[Gary Campbell]

And another version showing that chamfers and roundovers can both be placed on the same part.

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[Paul Lawrence]

The more I read about Aspire, the more amazed I am.

The biggest impediment to CNC routing is still the price, but a decade later (like computing in general) the hardware costs are still the same only you get 10 times as much for the price.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

For something as simple as what I or Gary showed, you can easily hand code it or use free software.

If you don't plan on using the relief modeling capabilities in Aspire, there are a lot of other, much cheaper options that will do the same thing.

[Gary Campbell]

+1 to what Gerry says. FYI, there was no "modeling" done with my block screen clip above. It was a simple 2D toolpath previewed in VCarve Pro.

[Paul Lawrence]

Thanks. Gerry, I finally watched enough tutorial videos that explained the way the software works. It is facinating to see things happen on the screen.

Gotta find some money and get working on some wood!

To explain a little, I spent most of 30 years in my previous business buying equipment with more capabilities than I needed at the time. Most of the time that strategy worked well for me.

To some extent, I'm thinking it won't take too long to run into something that I'll need the higher end software to produce.

[Paul Lawrence]

Hope I'm not being a bother, but now I have been drawing some objects with VCarvePro Trial to see what I can accomplish. The end goal is a panel that looks somewhat like the profile of a molded plastic case edge.

I easily recreated my original sketch from my post in #9 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242301-Question-about-Vectrics-software&p=2546475#post2546475) above. I went ahead and applied a cutout path and then duplicated it to create the chamfered edge with a 90'V, 1/16" depth and a -1/16" offset to the outside cut.

However, I can see that getting the same chamfered edge with rounded corners on the backside would be somewhat challenging in the router while considering getting the part indexed back to a common zero point. (There is no "fit" involved. The chamfered edge is strictly cosmetic.)

Creating that small chamfer on the backside after the part is cutout with rounded corners would be impossible for me to do right on a router table.

So, I've led myself into the conclusion that the part really has to be cut to size and the edges chamfered before any other work is done to it (like cutouts or holes.) This adds problems (in my inexperienced CNC router mind) with clamping on finished surfaces, the chamfer won't follow the rounded corner, etc.

That kind of takes some of the production value out of putting the raw wood in the CNC router and turning out the finished cut part.

Is my thinking right? I value your opinion.

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[Gary Campbell]

Paul...
All of what you wish for should be easily attainable. Developing an index system for 2 sided machining is commonplace, should the part require that. Think of 2 "stations" if you will. One where one side is completely machined and the parts outer profile is cut. The other where the removed part is set into a machined recess for the flip side machining.

If you proceed with CNC routing, you will find that part or material hold down is a significant portion of the process. There is no one method that works for all operations and all hold down methods have drawbacks. Its all part of the learning curve. Rest assured that your part is more than doable. That said, I am not sure that I would set up a second machining station for a simple chamfer that may be most efficiently done with a table mounted router unless there were additional operations on the flip side of the part.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Creating that small chamfer on the backside after the part is cutout with rounded corners would be impossible for me to do right on a router table.

I'd use a small 45° bearing guided bit in a laminate trimmer, and have the backside chamfered before you even have it mounted to your fixture.
Or the same bit in the router table.
Remember that a CNC is not always the best tool for the job.

[Paul Lawrence]

I am listening. Thank you very much. You've encouraged me. Now the finances. :)

[Kevin L. Waldron]

You might try a program like MOI Cad.....http://moi3d.com/ if your looking for a relatively in-expense Cad program that offers a little more power for stranger things than what Sketchup will do. Our program of choice is Rhinoceros or FormZ if your wanting true 3D capability in nurbs format with just about total control........ if you can think it.... you probably can draw it with enough skill.......we primarily use Rhinocam and MadCam for our Cam work but do have a number of others including Aspire. (Sketchup and Autocad as well as Aspire basically operate from mesh Cad files which are somewhat more difficult to modify than a nurbs file.... not impossible but much more difficult to do free form curves etc......We can use Sketchup drawings in Rhinoceros as a mesh file but our Cam software is limited to it's capability as meshs so we go through a process to convert the files to nurbs curves ..... we first convert the SKP files to 3DS files then we convert from the 3DS mesh to a Solid and from there we can generate our nurbs curves and modification becomes much easier )

Aspire is a great program for the price........ a lot depends on where your wanting to go with your drawings/files, CNC cutting/shaping/carving and your skill level... there are a number of programs that offer more CAM power than Aspire but again price and what it offers..... ultimately what is your goal? What you show in your post is basically a 2D or 2.5 machining.....you can do it with 3D machine but not necessary.

kevin
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[Paul Lawrence]

I don't have enough life left to get into too much 3D! :D First time I've heard of "MOI Cad". That looks very interesting for all the reasons you've stated.

My plans are short term for now with "2D or 2.5 machining" being as far as I'll commit to until I get some ground under me. I always look at software before hardware.

Mostly, I think of 3D carving on wood, but I doubt that I'll get much production out of it.

I've found a Makerspace in the area, so I may see if I can learn enough to pass it on to a couple of youngsters.