Best strop for planes and chisels?

[Derek Cohen]

I posted a reply on WoodCentral and thought it may be appreciated here ... when is a sharpening thread boring! :rolleyes:

I have used leather strops for many years. The horse butt sold by Joel at TFWW are very good ... good because they are hard and do not "give" much. I would use then with the smooth side up.


Having said this, I no longer use a leather strop. Instead I use a planed hardwood board about the same size as a sharpening stone. This has Veritas green compound rubbed over it.


Technically, I would not call this a strop, but a sharpening wood with a grit of 0.5 micron. But I use it in the same way as I used a leather strop before: to ensure that the wire edge is removed. It, additionally, smooths the edge very significantly. And it does so without any threat of dubbing the edge.


Below are the stones I use: a worn Eze-lap Fine (600 grit) diamond stone or 1000 grit Shapton Pro to start; followed by Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco ceramic stones, and then the green compound strop. I think that George has a very similar set up.


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Sharpening/Strop/Strop-and-stones_zpsr9qc9ypb.jpg


The great thing about this system is that it requires minimal maintenance. The Spyderco are better than oil stones in terms of maintaining flatness, and the strop can get tossed/replaced if worn or damaged.


With the strop, I first run the back of the blade over the compound. This gets rid of any clumps of wax. then I work the bevel. Just a few strokes are enough.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Derek!

I use a stone-sized piece of MDF the with the veritas green. Would the hardwood do a better job?

Fred

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Fred

I prefer hardwood to MDF. MDF tends to be vulnerable to swelling with moisture, and my sharpening kit is alongside a trough with running water.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

I use Diamond Lapping Film-.5 and .1 micron,334409 on a granite surface plate overhanging the edge of the sink.

[Patrick Chase]

I use Diamond Lapping Film-.5 and .1 micron,334409 on a granite surface plate overhanging the edge of the sink.

3M 661X and 668X (plain and PSA-backed respectively) are great stuff. LV sells 668X in a few grits, but you can get it a little cheaper and in a much wider variety of grits from other sources.

The abrasive size distribution on that diamond film is extremely tight. The 0.5 um 668X sheet that you use leaves a significantly finer finish than the LV green compound that Derek recommends (which isn't "0.5 micron" at all - it has a high percentage of larger al-oxide particles. That's why LV no longer directly claims a micron rating for it). The 0.1 diamond sheets are the equivalent of #120000 or so, and IMO they're overkill for woodworking when you consider that the 0.5 already leaves a finer finish than any man-made waterstone that I know of. The 1 micron film (not available from LV but you can find it from plenty of other sources) is arguably good enough, at #10000-#15000 equivalent (in Sigma vs Shapton rating systems, respectively).

On the coarse end 3M make a diamond film called 663X that has a diamond-ceramic abrasive (diamond particles embedded in a ceramic matrix) that "self-sharpens" by sharding. It's similar in concept to seeded-gel wheel abrasives or zirconia-alumina belt abrasives. The stuff is available down to the equivalent of #250 and holds up beautifully for heavy edge work in very hard steels, though it's about twice as expensive as 661X/668X.

For a while there was an Amazon retailer that was selling 661X (non-PSA) for $6 per 6x6 sheet, or about half what LV charges ($6 per 6x3 sheet). Unfortunately they recognized their pricing error, but not before I stocked up. As of today the cheapest source that I know of that carries the full line is Precision Surfaces (psidragon.com).

EDIT: The diamond films really come into their own with steels that contain a lot of hard carbides like D2 or HSS. Conventional abrasives tend to knock the carbides out (more specifically they "erode" the metal around the carbide until it falls out), but diamond media can actually sharpen them in place.

[Sean Hughto]

Hardwood comes in different hardness. Any opinion on the optimal durometer? I mean you could use granite I suppose or poplar and get different effects.

[Prashun Patel]

I read an article in FWW a year ago that recommended hard maple.

Derek, I didn't realize you use the Spyderco's. Do those ceramic stones require lengthy soaking?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I read an article in FWW a year ago that recommended hard maple.

Derek, I didn't realize you use the Spyderco's. Do those ceramic stones require lengthy soaking?

No soaking, use them dry.... although I think I have heard of some people using something for a lubricant

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=81

From the link:


As with all of Spyderco's ceramic stones, use our benchstones dry without lubricants or oils.

To clean: wash with fresh water and scrub metal particles from the stones with a plastic scouring pad and abrasive powered cleanser.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I originally used birch plywood but changed over to maple plywood as the die making grade of maple ply is very flat, harder than the birch, and besides I get the cutoffs from work for free.

[Patrick Chase]

I personally don't think there's such a thing as a "best strop". it comes down to the metal, the type of tool, and what you're doing to it.

I think that stiff leather, MDF, and hardwood are all fine for secondary bevels, but would never use any of them to polish a chisel back. For that I use either diamond paste on very flat steel plates (I have them reground at a friend's shop when they get more than a couple tenths of a mil out) or lapping film on glass.

If you made me standardize on one approach for everything it would be diamond paste on steel plates.

EDIT: Forgot to mention - If I'm really in a hurry I'll sometimes touch up on a felt wheel charged with "it says it's 'equivalent' to 0.5 um but it's really more like 2-3" LV green honing compound.

[Jim Koepke]

I personally don't think there's such a thing as a "best strop".

This is where my "whatever works best for you" philosophy comes in.

I have a few pieces of wood and a lot of different leathers that seem to work fine for me.

Just my 334420.

As always, 334421

jtk

[John Crawford]

Here's a stropping question that I haven't wanted to start an independent thread for....

* When you strop, does it matter if you hold the blade at the same angle that you would when you are sharpening/honing that blade on a stone?

In other words, I'm using an MDF strop (what else am I going to do with that MDF?), and when I strop a plane blade, I strop the back with the blade flat on the strop (just as if it were a stone), and when I strop the bevel, I hold it the iron at around 35 degrees (just as if I were sharpening on a stone). Is that unnecessarily fussy?

I have seen others strop much more casually: in stropping the back, hold it up at a slight angle (rather than flat), and then when stropping the bevel, holding it at a steeper angle than when sharpening.

Thanks!

[Patrick Chase]

Here's a stropping question that I haven't wanted to start an independent thread for....

* When you strop, does it matter if you hold the blade at the same angle that you would when you are sharpening/honing that blade on a stone?

In other words, I'm using an MDF strop (what else am I going to do with that MDF?), and when I strop a plane blade, I strop the back with the blade flat on the strop (just as if it were a stone), and when I strop the bevel, I hold it the iron at around 35 degrees (just as if I were sharpening on a stone). Is that unnecessarily fussy?

I have seen others strop much more casually: in stropping the back, hold it up at a slight angle (rather than flat), and then when stropping the bevel, holding it at a steeper angle than when sharpening.

Thanks!

Same angle or maybe 1-2 deg higher if you want to create a "nano-bevel" with the strop (though only on harder surfaces like MDF - leather will round the edge a little bit no matter what, so you don't want to add to that) .

Cavalier stropping of the sort you describe is a common cause of failure to cut due to loss of clearance.

[Tom M King]

Checking my order history on the Diamond Lapping Film sheets. I bought them from LV almost exactly a year apart for the three orders of them. The two coarser ones on the other end of the slab have been there since the first order, since those don't get used to amount to anything. I bought the set of four to try a little over two years ago, and liked them. The first ones I sliced up pretty badly until I finally found the habit of only backing up on them. They are extremely fragile to a sharp edge if you go forward or happen to bump one with a sharp edge.

So, long story short, they last about a year for me. I don't use them daily, but probably once every three days or so to average it out. I only hit something the last three strokes on each after honing on the water stones. I'll try to take some pictures the next time I hone something. They probably don't make the edge sharper to amount to anything off the 13k stone, but they sure make it pretty. I pour some water on them during the three seconds for the three strokes, and it just runs in the sink with no worries over it until the next use.

[Patrick Chase]

Checking my order history on the Diamond Lapping Film sheets. I bought them from LV almost exactly a year apart for the three orders of them. The two coarser ones on the other end of the slab have been there since the first order, since those don't get used to amount to anything. I bought the set of four to try a little over two years ago, and liked them. The first ones I sliced up pretty badly until I finally found the habit of only backing up on them. They are extremely fragile to a sharp edge if you go forward or happen to bump one with a sharp edge.

So, long story short, they last about a year for me. I don't use them daily, but probably once every three days or so to average it out. I only hit something the last three strokes on each after honing on the water stones. I'll try to take some pictures the next time I hone something. They probably don't make the edge sharper to amount to anything off the 13k stone, but they sure make it pretty. I pour some water on them during the three seconds for the three strokes, and it just runs in the sink with no worries over it until the next use.

When I use 661X/668X (3M's part number for the stuff LV resells) I start with a few draw strokes and then bidirectionally. The key thing is to make sure that you're not driving a nasty burr into the film. I don't use it for everything (not even close), but I get ~6 months per sheet. With good technique the sheets fail by wearing down before they get shredded. I use a light honing oil (Norton). When I use non-PSA 661X I also use a very thin layer of light oil to hold the sheets to the glass (slightly soapy water would be better, but doesn't last).

The non-PSA ones have no "give" (polyester is incompressible) and tend to telegraph any variation in the underlying surface. I had all sorts of trouble until I switched from granite surface plates to glass.

In terms of edge sharpness relative to waterstones, it depends on the metal. I have a set of PM-HSS chisels that get noticeably sharper on the diamond film than on any waterstone (including the optimized-for-HSS Sigma S-II line). In contrast there's not much difference at all for mundane steels like O1.

EDIT: I probably should have mentioned that I always use a honing guide with diamond lapping film. If you're sharpening by hand then you probably always want to be pulling the edge instead of pushing it (and even then you'll need to watch the pressure).

[Steve Voigt]

Having said this, I no longer use a leather strop. Instead I use a planed hardwood board about the same size as a sharpening stone. This has Veritas green compound rubbed over it.


Technically, I would not call this a strop, but a sharpening wood with a grit of 0.5 micron. But I use it in the same way as I used a leather strop before: to ensure that the wire edge is removed.

What I appreciate about this post, and other posts on stropping that you've put up, is that it distinguishes between the radically different activities that people refer to as stropping. Stropping on bare leather, stropping on leather charged with compound, and stropping on a hard substrate like mdf charged with compound, are 3 different animals and shouldn't bear the same name, but that's language for you.

As you point out, stropping on a charged substrate is better thought of as a very fine stone, and the technique should be the same. Whereas if we strop on bare leather, we are simply trying to remove the wire edge, and not really abrade the bevel any more. The third option, stropping on charged leather a la Paul Sellers, is sort of a cross between the two; it's like a mule and thank goodness it can't breed. :p Actually, it's very appropriate for carving and other complex-shaped cutting edges, but its use on straight edges makes me squirm.

FWIW, I strop with bare leather, just to remove the wire edge. I think that an edge honed on a hard black or tranny Arkansas, and then lightly stropped on leather, is sufficient for just about any woodworking application.

Someone (Fred I think?--sorry) was asking about mdf vs hardwood. I think either is fine, but just remember if you use hardwood and it warps, it's kind of a bummer to plane off the encrusted green crayon. So, if you use hardwood, I would use something dead QS and acclimate it to your shop before you flatten it and put it into service. The upside of mdf is that it's already flat and if it gets worn you can just pitch it in the trash and cut another piece.

[Daniel Rode]

I asked about using the spyderco stones with a strop recently. The advice from Derek and George was really helpful. My stones work well today, so I'm on no rush to switch, but I will eventually. I have been using an 3x8 MDF block with the green compound. I can get an edge at least as good as my 15k Shapton. It's no more difficult and the bonus is I can keep one laying on the bench for quick touch-ups.

One issue I've had is ruining them by using a push stroke. I can do a push-pull motion on my stones but I never did it with my leather strop. I've ruined 2 by mindlessly pushing a chisel and slicing out a chunk :( My plan is to switch to maple I think it will be more stable and more durable (unless I keep pushing)

I like things that are simple and durable and this fits that preference. If I can avoid consumables and guides, I do. While most sharpening medium are consumable, the spyderco stones will out live me and the green compound is cheap and lasts for years.

[george wilson]

I use an MDF strop with LV green compound. But as Derek suggested,it MUST be kept dry. I don't use water stones,so no danger there for my MDF. I use a small sprtiz of water on my spydercos. Nothing to worry about getting on my MDF.

I will repeat my caution about using your water stones in the SINK: That stone sludge is going to accumulate in the water trap and nothing will dissolve it. You will eventually stop the sink drain up,and have to replace the pipes.

[Steve H Graham]

Would teak be good for this purpose? I had to buy a piece for a boat repair, and I ended up with a chunk I don't know what to do with. It's hard but not what you would call pretty.