Crosscut retoothng method advice

[Phil Mueller]

So, follow up to my last sharpening thread, I filed the teeth off, made a paper template, and marked the gullets. What's your method for crosscut shaping from here?

Do you file every other a little bit, turn the saw, file the remaining a little bit, then continue to flip the saw back and forth until they are all shaped well?

Thanks, Phil

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[Kees Heiden]

First I sharpen a rip pattern, all from one side. This creates the basic shape of the teeth. Then a light rejointing and I file in the fleam.

[Nick Stokes]

This would be my thought as well... Also, it might be worthwhile to check out the Paul Sellers youtube video on the subject. He does the initial shaping with a hacksaw... which would probably be alot faster/easier and less work for your files. I haven't done it, or tried it, but when I was studying how to do it, it seemed a good option.

[Glen Canaday]

I have a saw or two that also need this. I was going to follow the Paul Sellers method, too. I found a fantastic little bow hacksaw with a sharp fine tooth blade that will be perfect.

[Patrick Chase]

So, follow up to my last sharpening thread, I filed the teeth off, made a paper template, and marked the gullets. What's your method for crosscut shaping from here?

Do you file every other a little bit, turn the saw, file the remaining a little bit, then continue to flip the saw back and forth until they are all shaped well?

Thanks, Phil


Like Kees I shape all the teeth at once, straight across (no fleam) from one side. I then add fleam in the final sharpening pass, after setting. IMO it's difficult to fine-tune tooth positions while only filing every other tooth.

One way to think of it is that shaping is complete when you've reduced the tops of the teeth to lines, and sharpening of a crosscut saw is complete wen you've reduced the tops to points.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks all. I have watched Paul Seller's video as well as Bob Rozaieski's (Logan Cabinet Shop) video and they both focused on rip. Just wasn't sure of the method for crosscut. I was hoping I could start shaping as rip and finish with crosscut. Appreciate the confirmation.
Just waiting for the right size files to arrive and will give it a go.

[Ron Bontz]

Dykem, joint, shape (rip ). Dykem, joint, set, sharpen ( fleam ). More or less. :)

[Patrick Chase]

Dykem, joint, shape (rip ). Dykem, joint, set, sharpen ( fleam ). More or less. :)

Interesting, you're the first person (other than me) that I've seen admit to painting their toothlines with Dykem. I don't always use it, but it's really useful for fine teeth where a marker doesn't work so well...

[Kees Heiden]

Personally I don't find the dykem very helpfull. Watching the tips of the teeth with a raking light tells me better where I am then dykem.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dykem too messy for me and maybe I brush it on too thickly, but I find it hard to get off. Get a spray can of Birchwood Casey's "Sight Black" (any firearms store), and gve a light spray on the toothline.

[lowell holmes]

Dykem too messy for me and maybe I brush it on too thickly, but I find it hard to get off. Get a spray can of Birchwood Casey's "Sight Black" (any firearms store), and gve a light spray on the toothline.

I use a red black board marker to color the tooth line. As you file it comes off and you know where you are.

I tried black sight black as LN suggests, but it is too messy for me because it is a spray. The marker is cleaner and simpler.

[Phil Mueller]

I do have and use Dykem. It is very helpful to me. A very small amount along the tooth line. I found it cleans up easily with DNA.
And thanks Ron, I have re-dykemed (is that a proper word?) several times along the process...even when I practiced shaping and sharpening an old rip saw. It's made a big difference.

[Pat Barry]

I just use a permanent marker dragged along the toothlines but we use Dykem at work for destructive testing and it would be better but don't have that at home

[Patrick Chase]

Dykem too messy for me and maybe I brush it on too thickly, but I find it hard to get off. Get a spray can of Birchwood Casey's "Sight Black" (any firearms store), and gve a light spray on the toothline.

You know that Dykem is alcohol-soluble right?

Also like most highly chromatic dyes it's very susceptible to bleaching. Just don't mix the 2 (alcohol and chlorine bleach).

[Patrick Chase]

Personally I don't find the dykem very helpfull. Watching the tips of the teeth with a raking light tells me better where I am then dykem.

It's not an either-or - If you apply Dykem and then lightly joint with a stone then that boosts the visibility of the tips quite a lot. As I said above it's not an everyday technique, but it's really useful to get an accurate look at what's happening with, say, a 20 tpi crosscut detail saw.

[Phil Mueller]

I'm jealous of your young eyes, Patrick. I find it helpful even on a 5ppt rip!

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm jealous of your young eyes, Patrick. I find it helpful even on a 5ppt rip!

For my old eye, a lighted magnifier helps immensely. I got mine from Grizzly and if you decide to go that route, be sure to order a spare bulb, as the bulbs are not readily available in borgs. The last time I ordered a bulb from Grizzly, IIRC it took better than a month, as they were back ordered (Grizz did advise this at the time of order).

[lowell holmes]

I took George's suggestion and found a pair of +3.25 reading glasses to wear when filing saw teeth. It works better for me than magnifying binoculars.

[Kees Heiden]

It's not an either-or - If you apply Dykem and then lightly joint with a stone then that boosts the visibility of the tips quite a lot. As I said above it's not an everyday technique, but it's really useful to get an accurate look at what's happening with, say, a 20 tpi crosscut detail saw.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll give it a try next time when I have a large saw sharpening job (if I remember).

[Pat Barry]

It's not an either-or - If you apply Dykem and then lightly joint with a stone then that boosts the visibility of the tips quite a lot. As I said above it's not an everyday technique, but it's really useful to get an accurate look at what's happening with, say, a 20 tpi crosscut detail saw.
I should try that method. What I have done is to joint first, then use the marker to blacken the jointed surfaces and teeth, then filed. I figured when the black marker was gone the tooth was sharp.

[Tom M King]

On a jobsite, I use a work light positioned so the face of the teeth shine back at me. It works great for crosscut teeth since you can set it to only shine one half of the teeth back at you. When I turn the saw around, I just move the light to the other side. This LED worklight from Lowes is the best I've used for this. It's plenty bright enough, but not too bright, and the height is easy to adjust. I've never used dye.334376 I'm used to using one hand on the file, and hesitate for a split second with the smooth end in the gullet to make sure I'm in the right gullet.

[Steve Bates]

I read an article last night about saw sharpening that I felt was helpful for understanding (somewhat for me) the process. I'll bring it back up the next time I file a saw. For me it helps to read and do simultaneously.

The article is http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib2/hagemyerM/toothShaping/toothShaping-01.asp

Hope this helps some for you, Phil.

[Phil Mueller]

Thank you Steve. Another great reference...!

[Ron Bontz]

When you are filing a 20 or 21ppi saw, every little bit helps. :):) I prefer the red color. I wipe off the dykem on the side of the plate with lacquer thinner. Then finish cleaning/ polishing the plate.

[Nick Stokes]

I did further research on Paul Sellers and his advise in filing... He advocates that for saws with 9tpi or more, to file them all rip... But for 8tpi to file them either rip or cross... Makes sense.