Powermatic question

[Ray Hammer]

Hi am new to this forum and have a question. I am wanting to purchase a table saw to pursue my hobby of furniture making. I have a friend who has a PM 66. It is a green 1967 3 phase with a single phase converter. It seems to function fine but needs a new fence. The round rails are old and the tape portion is hard to read. I can get the saw for 450.00 plus the cost of a new fence and rails.

Shouls I buy this or go for the new 1000.00 grizzly which is all I can afford at the time.

thanks for your comments

[Mike Heidrick]

I like riving knives of newer saws but that green PM is a beast. New tape would only be $10.

[Matt Day]

The tape (in this case it's stamped into the tube rails) should not be factored at all into the decision. I don't use my fence tape at all (Biesemeyer) and if you wanted you could get fancy and get a digital readout from Wixey.
$450 is a steal for that saw. The VFD alone costs $100-$200. Sounds like his a real friend at that price, and you probably didn't need this post!

I'm finishing up restoring a 1964 pm65 and will probably sell it. And list it for $800 and see what happens.

Forgot to mention regarding safety, you can add on a Shark Guard that acts as a splitter if you want. Not a roving knife but close.

[Harold Weaver]

The older PM 66 models are fine machines. I owned a 1972 model and restored it and used it until I got a new saw. Very easy to work on and built like tanks. The old pea green models are worth having. But, at $450, for a 3 phase unit, I'd pass at that price. I paid $150 for the one I had and swapped the motor out for a new Leeson single phase. Piece of cake.

If the converter is a static converter, you will lose some of the HP in that process vs. an RPC or VFD. You did not say, but a lot of those early 66s came with a 1 1/2 or 2 HP motors. The static converter will rob off the HP. The price of a new Biesemeyer is about $450 and a Vega runs about $360, the Grizzly clone fence runs about the same. That plus the price of the saw is putting you into a range where you can get a better single phase saw that will meet your needs a little better, unless you actually have 3 phase power that is. I'm all about the older American made machines, but the price point has to be right based on the numbers that I know I have to put into it like belts, bearings, etc. otherwise, I look for a better machine.

[Ray Hammer]

Thanks for the reply. That is kind of where I am at, based on the money, buy a new saw for a grand or a 50 year old saw for a grand. Some say the old machine is better than a new one but I don't know enough about them to say for sure.
Thanks for the information.

[Matt Day]

Lets regroup here, and give us some more information. What size hp motor? What kind of phase converter?

What's functionally wrong with the fence where you'd need a brand new one? The old fences worked just fine for years.

If you'd prefer a new saw with warranty, that's another thing.

[Tom M King]

If you don't take it, can you let me know where it is?

[Don Jarvie]

There's a few ways to look at this. What is the condition of the saw, plug and play or needs some work? What is your skill level in fixing up old tools. What's the motor size and VFD to consider Harold's point. Is 450 firm or can you get the price lower.

Factor everything in and go from there. Some want new and some like old. I got a 74 that I restored and swapped out the motor. I like doing stuff like this but not everyone does.

[Alan Heffernan]

I've got a PM66 - yellow, late eighties vintage. Great saw and I would buy a new motor for it without a blink if it went south.

It came with a Biesemeyer fence and it is outstanding.

If you could get the saw, replace the motor with a single phase and get a new fence - you would have a real ringer worth having. These upgrades certainly affect what you may be willing to put into the saw. But without them, the saw would not be useful to me. However, I would prefer a tuned up PM66 to a Griz.

[Cary Falk]

I restored a Uni. I ended up selling it for a saw with a riving knife. I had a pop in splitter for the Uni but it is just not the same. Restoring old tools can be a money pit so be careful. I lost a little on the transaction. A good fence is worth it's weight in gold. I don't like measuring a cut each time. If you say PM66 or Grizzly Hybrid (if you need it now)I would say PM66. If you are saying PM66 or Grizzly cabinet saw, I would say Grizzly with riving knife all the way.

[Simon Dupay]

get the powermatic, I regret not going used years ago with my saw (a chinese PM 64) I could have gotten a uni for the money I put in that saw

[David Linnabary]

I've got one of the old green 66's from probably the early 60's, I still use the stock fence and love how it performs. I may at some point put some contrasting black paint in the gradient marks to help my old eyes a bit. The rails are chrome so it would probably help distinguish for my aging eyes.

I know I overpaid initially, then I had another $300 to replace the 3 ph motor, belts were inexpensive and readily available. I've not replaced the arbor bearings yet. This saw is no peach, looks quite rough but performs so well, something just won't let me repaint it. :)

I think the real question is about you, if you enjoy tinkering with machinery and learning about that sort of thing, then old equipment is just part of how you spend time in your shop. I'm currently getting an early 70's vintage Italian made jointer tuned up, I was stuck for a while then had a discovery moment. Very satisfying kind of thing for me personally. That's the real question, do you enjoy the machinery part or would you rather just build stuff out of wood.

David

[Ray Hammer]

I think i will take the plunge and buy the old machine. I love fixing stuff, its what i have done for a living for the the better part of my life. I appreciate the information. Its funny, as you age your appreciation for the old days increases. At least it does for me.
I will post a picture when i get it home.
Thanks

[Ed Aumiller]

Smart move...
Old American beats new imports every day of the week...

[Harold Weaver]

Good move Ray. Just make sure you inspect everything very closely for cracks etc. Plenty of folks have rebuilt these saws here and over at OWWM, so getting info on your rebuild is a piece of cake. Just let us know if you run into questions. You'll really like this saw once it is tuned and dialed in.

[Mike Goetzke]

I think i will take the plunge and buy the old machine. I love fixing stuff, its what i have done for a living for the the better part of my life. I appreciate the information. Its funny, as you age your appreciation for the old days increases. At least it does for me.
I will post a picture when i get it home.
Thanks

Good choice!

Through my hobby life I have progressed through several TS's. I had a 3-year old Uni that I bought new and sold trying to have a TS-less shop - didn't work out for me. Then I found a 1950 Uni on CL for a song. I spent a few weekends tearing it down completely, replaced bearings, rebuilt the motor, even made "neckless and brass bullets" for it, and repainted. Probably one of the most satisfying projects I have ever worked on. I couldn't get used to the original fence so I added a Biesemeyer type fence. Also, souped it up by added an OEM cast "Goose-Egg", Shark Guard, and Jessem stock guide. Best TS I ever owned!

Good Luck with your restoration (visit OWWM site to get more info),

Mike

[Ken Harris]

I restored a delta 890 with a retro cast iron stand,came out very nice.I have one of the last 66's made,If it wasn't such a pain just setting up a table saw I would seriously consider a saw like you have,just to do it.Nothing wrong with my saw but I personally like the old green powermatics better.

[Michael Dye]

I've made a good hobby out of restoring old woodworking machinery. And, pocketed enough cash to keep my motorcycle addiction alive. That being said, you made a good choice with the old PM66. I've restored Unisaws, 12" Deltas, PM65, 66, and 72's, as well as other American heavy iron. You will enjoy the Powermatic very much. As to the choice of fences, I personally like the Delta Unifence. I've tried them all and always come back to the Unifence. Now if you want to stick with the PM fence, let me know. I have a set of rods and fence that came off of a 66 I restored for a customer. He wanted a Biesemeyer instead. Good luck with the project. By the way, the single phase 5hp Leeson and Baldor C-face motors that used to be on the market for a couple hundred dollars have gone off the chart, money-wise. $500 new, the last time I checked.