Tinting Shellac?

[Allan Speers]

I'm growing more & more fond of shellac as a final coat. - Both on furniture and the occasional instrument refinish.

I have always used various natural colors, but I know that many folks advocate using only super-blonde (or platina) and adding tints or dyes as desired, for more control. I thought I would try this, but I just read that adding an alcohol tint to shellac results in a NON lightfast finish. I consider that a deal-breaker.

So...

1: Is there a solution? Are alcohol dyes different? Is there any additive that can solve this (admittedly small) problem?

1b: I suppose one might also ask if the NATURAL colors in shellac are light-fast. I never thought about this before, but I don't think I've noticed a problem, in my very limited experience.


2: Any recommendation on specific tint colors, to achieve the "same" look as standard orange & garnet shellacs?


3: Does anyone prefer dying the wood first, then using blonde shellac over it? if so, why?


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Also: Many folks recommend using natural waxy shellac for french polishing, as the finish is more durable. If tiniting instead of going "au natural," is it possible to get NOT dewaxed super-blonde or platina?

[Allan Speers]

Update:


I just read this in a Paul Sellers blog:


"I use a dye in the shellac itself and add leather dye to get the colour I want. These dyes fade a little in full sun, but I enjoy this result. For most of my work I stick to clear shellac."


Hmmm. So dyes have the same problem, but he "ENJOYS" the faded look? Do you guys feel the same way?
I'm not so sure.
Still wondering if there's some kind of UV additive one can use with shellac.

[Prashun Patel]

Hi Alan-
You should give WD Lockwood a call. They have oil soluble, water soluble, alcohol soluble and metal complex dyes in any color you could want.

I have been using Transtint in shellac pretty successfully.

[Tom McMahon]

All dyes fade over time, some more slowly than others. The metalized dyes are the most light fast, they tend to darken a little at first then begin to fade. Dyes fade because they work through a molecular bond and UV light breaks the bond. The only lightfast colorants are the earth pigments. The artificial pigments and the lake pigments tend to fade like the dyes. In many cases the fading takes place so slowly that it is not noticed unless it is somehow compared to the original color.

[Stan Calow]

I use Transtint in shellac all the time. Sometimes universal colorants from the hobby store as well. UV resistance not a major concern for any indoor project I do. The normal color change of aging seems more significant.

[Allan Speers]

Thanks, guys.


So for tinting, do you use platina flakes, or just super blonde?

[John TenEyck]

I've been using Transtint dye in Sealcoat shellac for quite a few years now and have never been able to discern a change in color. For indoor projects I don't see an issue.

Yes, I often dye a piece first and then apply a topcoat. That would be my normal approach, but there are times when a shellac toner makes more sense, or I use it to adjust the color of a piece during the finishing process. It's good to have lots of arrows in your quiver.

John

[roger wiegand]

I also like the alcohol-soluble transtint dyes when one of the natural shellac colors doesn't do the trick. I have not noticed significant fading. Like John I'd typically dye first then topcoat, but for some of the antiques I restore I get a better match to the original by coloring the shellac.

[Prashun Patel]

I use sealcoat like John, so that's (super?) blonde. If you are trying to achieve orange or garnet, the yellow cast will be compatible with the dye.

Transtint may be your easiest bet. They make an 'amber additive' that I use for creating darker shellac.

Personally, I prefer to dye, then shellac. The reason is that dyeing the raw wood allows you to sneak up on the color without building a film. Doing it in the shellac phase limits the number of coats you can put on, since shellac looks and performs best as a thin film.

I use tinted shellac as a toner - just to adjust or even out the color.

The other reason to add dye to the shellac and spraying is that it keeps it closer to the surface and can eliminate some blotch. An alternative to this is spraying the dye on the raw wood. You can sand the wood higher than normal - like to 220 or even 400, and then spray in ethanol (or even better, acetone; but I suspect this'll be a non-starter for you for safety reasons). Spraying it thinned with a lots of air makes a practically dry spray that just coats the surface and isn't carried into the porous blotchy regions. No magic, it's just air brushing.

[Stan Calow]

I use garnet flakes for walnut projects, amber flakes for other wood. But you can't beat the convenience of canned shellac, especially for adding colors. Also shellac in spray cans is great for small hard to handle things like picture frames.

[Allan Speers]

I use sealcoat like John, so that's (super?) blonde. If you are trying to achieve orange or garnet, the yellow cast will be compatible with the dye.

Transtint may be your easiest bet. They make an 'amber additive' that I use for creating darker shellac.

Personally, I prefer to dye, then shellac. The reason is that dyeing the raw wood allows you to sneak up on the color without building a film. Doing it in the shellac phase limits the number of coats you can put on, since shellac looks and performs best as a thin film.

I use tinted shellac as a toner - just to adjust or even out the color.

The other reason to add dye to the shellac and spraying is that it keeps it closer to the surface and can eliminate some blotch. An alternative to this is spraying the dye on the raw wood. You can sand the wood higher than normal - like to 220 or even 400, and then spray in ethanol (or even better, acetone; but I suspect this'll be a non-starter for you for safety reasons). Spraying it thinned with a lots of air makes a practically dry spray that just coats the surface and isn't carried into the porous blotchy regions. No magic, it's just air brushing.


Thanks, Prashun. Some interesting points, there, I must say.

But FWIW, I hate shellac in a can, for anything except a seal coat, and with good reasons. (a topic for a different thread, though.)


I still wanna know which dyes will get me as close as possible to typical garnet & orange shellac flakes. It's not a life-or-death thing, but I like those colors & know exactly when I want to use them.