Stopped Grooves & Dadoes with a Plow Plane

[Richard Line]

Jim Koepke has mentioned a couple of times doing stopped grooves and dadoes with his Stanley 45 plow plane. I've got a 45, that I like, and have done many grooves, dadoes and rabbits with it.

But how to do a stopped groove is a mystery to me. Any help on this 'trick'.

The only way I've been able to think of doing it is extend the blade beyond the skate but that would seem to result in the groove depth not being controlled away from the stopped end. Or is the depth stop able to control the depth of cut in the part where the skate shouldn't drop down.

[Joel Thomas Runyan]

You mean a method involving nothing but the 45? The regular method is of course to chop a short mortise at the stopped end(s) and continue as usual with the plow.

[Richard Line]

Joel,
I've consider doing that, but if the groove is to be deep, say over 3/8", I'd be worried about the strength of the unsupported blade. And if the groove is long, then supporting the plane on only the depth stop seems a bit iffy. Then if it is a cross grain groove, dado, the nickers wouldn't be able to do their job (yeah there are work arounds for that). I can see this working for shallow grooves that aren't much longer that the skates.

Of course I may be over thinking this whole thing and should just go out an try it.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim Koepke has mentioned a couple of times doing stopped grooves and dadoes with his Stanley 45 plow plane. I've got a 45, that I like, and have done many grooves, dadoes and rabbits with it.

I submitted this to Popular Woodworking but the editor didn't quite understand the concept or didn't think there was enough interest.

There are a few ways to accomplish this. The basic method has the skates riding above the surface. I set them about 0.030" above the work surface using feeler gauges to support the plane while setting the depth stops and cam. The depth stops become the plane's sole. Just for fun I did make a wooden sole that mounted using depth stops.

This is the side sole and a fence with a notch cut out for making stopped rabbets:

334095

This shows the plane set up before the fence is attached:

334094

If you make a wooden sole, make sure to cutout an area around the blade.

The blade is advanced between cuts about a quarter turn or what ever is comfortable for the user.

If the blade locking bolt is set loose, make sure the blade is properly seated with each cut. The Stanley #55 comes with a screw to be installed in the movable skate for this kind of work.

The end where the work stops will be a little ragged and will clean up easily with a chisel. The starting end will have a ramp since each time the blade is advanced it will start cutting just ahead of where it started on the previous cut. This too will be easy to clean with a chisel.

There isn't much reason to go much deeper than 3/8", but I think a little more depth shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the blade isn't overly advanced on each cut.

Hope this helps,

jtk

[Richard Line]

Jim,
That makes a lot of sense to me. My plane doesn't have the 2nd (rear) depth stop. I'll have to do something about that. Making a sole seems like a good idea if doing more than 1 or 2 grooves. Your point about blade depth and advancing as you go helps.

I did try without the depth stops for support. It wasn't nice.

Thanks.

[Derek Cohen]

Jim Koepke has mentioned a couple of times doing stopped grooves and dadoes with his Stanley 45 plow plane. I've got a 45, that I like, and have done many grooves, dadoes and rabbits with it.

But how to do a stopped groove is a mystery to me. Any help on this 'trick'.

The only way I've been able to think of doing it is extend the blade beyond the skate but that would seem to result in the groove depth not being controlled away from the stopped end. Or is the depth stop able to control the depth of cut in the part where the skate shouldn't drop down.

Richard, whether you plane stopped rebates or stopped grooves or dados, the process is the same: there needs to be a space at the start and end of the desired trench for the blade and/or shavings. In other words, enough waste must be excavated before planing.

I have had to do this with all the drawers in my latest build since the grooves run slightly below the first tail socket. There I used a router plane rather than a plough plane since the drawer back is hollow not flat. I chopped out a 1" long mortice at each end.

Here is a link to a rebate being made that needed to be stopped at each end. In this case the waste was sawn and chopped away. It is still the same process.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,
That makes a lot of sense to me. My plane doesn't have the 2nd (rear) depth stop. I'll have to do something about that. Making a sole seems like a good idea if doing more than 1 or 2 grooves. Your point about blade depth and advancing as you go helps.

I did try without the depth stops for support. It wasn't nice.

Thanks.

The skates need to be just above the surface otherwise you run into problems and have to do some pre-groove cutting as Derek describes.

When I need to do more than one piece, I will mount them on the bench side by side and plow both pieces together.

334100

Here I am working two pieces at the same time. This also taught me to cut all the joinery before shaping the ends. It worked here, but my template now has a note on it about making sure everything else is done before cutting the end shape.

Another thing I learned is the fence resting on the bench can help to keep the plane off the work surface. This may be subject to stock thickness and variations in manufacturing of the Stanley 45.

I find cutting stopped dados comes out neater with chisels and a saw. Of course if a saw is used it helps if one end of the dado can be open. It helps to saw if the stopped end is opened up a bit for the sawdust to have a place to collect.

[Richard Line]

Derek and Jim, thanks for the help. You've made it clear how to proceed. For dadoes with only 1 stopped end, I'll continue doing those with saw, chisel, and router plane. I'm not sure how many both ends stopped grooves I'll be doing, but now that mental nag is satisfied. Thanks again.

[Jim Koepke]

Derek and Jim, thanks for the help. You've made it clear how to proceed. For dadoes with only 1 stopped end, I'll continue doing those with saw, chisel, and router plane. I'm not sure how many both ends stopped grooves I'll be doing, but now that mental nag is satisfied. Thanks again.

You are welcome. I found a picture of a stopped rabbet I cut:

334135

The area marked with pencil rises successively due to the blade advancement preventing itself from reaching into the start end corner. You can also see a little chipping at the ending edge. This can be planned ahead and the planing stopped a touch short so a chisel can make it look better. My recollection is in this case a block of wood was clamped to the work as a stop for the plane.

jtk

[steven c newman]

I used an older plane for a few grooves..
334136
Was building a wooden screen door, already had the mortises in place..
334137
The mortises were of the through kind.
Short rebates, are from chisels, dados are from a stanley #39

[David Eisenhauer]

I use my 45 to outline a panel groove running between two mortises. It will only cut a 32nd - sixteenth deep without getting into adjusting the cutter depth, but I then use that outline to chisel chop the groove or run a router plane along the outline (depending on the workability of the grain). Or, chop the bulk of the groove with a chisel, then run a router plane to clean up the bottom of the groove. Goes pretty quick with the groove outline in place and the groove helps with leaving a clean surface.