what engraver should I get?

[Johnes Michal]

Total newbie here. I want to buy a laser engraver/cutter to do the following jobs (the % shows how much I will be doing that particular job):
Engrave cylindrical wood pencils and rattan reeds used for weaving baskets (75%); Cut 2.5mm thick leather (15%); Cut acrylic boards (5% ); Cut patterns in ¼” wood boards (5%).
The working area needs to fit at least 18” long materials, which is why I have eliminated smaller machines form my list like the K40 40W China laser, which would much more fit my start-up wallet at this time.
I definitely don’t have the budget for a US laser machine, so I’ve been narrowing it to these three options:
1.- eBay - 50w CO2 USB China Laser Engraving Cutting Machine Engraver Cutter 300mm X 500mm - $1550 including shipping.


2.-G.Weike LG500 (desk) – also from China; $2120 including sea freight from China. The specs are here:http://www.wklaser.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&f=show&catid=128&l=2&id=251
3.- Glowforge basic 40W: 38″ x 20.75″ x 8.25″ (965mm x 527mm x 210mm). $2500 including Shipping. The specs are here:https://glowforge.com/tech-specs/

(https://glowforge.com/tech-specs/)

My intention is to get the cheapest machine that will do the jobs I need with as little fixing and tweaking as possible, and consequently as little head-to-wall banging as possible on my part...:o Some voices said that Chinese lasers are unreliable and that buying one is a gamble, that their software are pirated and may not work properly. In my case if there will be a problem I wouldn’t know how to fix it or where to begin to look. IF laser engravers are in any way similar to printers, well I'm at the level of the guy who buys the printers and knows how to operate them, but I’ve never had to open them up and figure out which circuit is busted or what’s causing a problem. An I am not looking to spend a hole to of time learning if I can avoind it.
I understand that with the Chinese lasers you need to learn about their components, have some knowledge of electronics (which I don’t), in order to figure out how to fix problems. Using the laser is such a small part of my endeavors that I simply wouldn’t have the time to spend on learning where the problems are, which components to take out, take apart and fix this kind of a machine. I can manage a certain altitude of a learning curve, but the whole rest of my business is going to suffer if I will have to spend a lot of time becoming an expert on China laser machines. I would rather not have to do that.


So I believe that the Glowforge is a much better fit for my needs. However, it is not clear that it can do what they promise it will do. It seems there is a lot of hype surrounding it but no proof that it can deliver. Besides, I would have to wait 6mo to a year, or more, to get one. They don’t have any sort of timetable as to when I might get one if I order it now.
So I’m kind of forced to consider the Chinese machines instead. Is the G. Weike machine really worth a 3rd of the price more than the eBay machine? I emailed G.Weike and they just said their machines are better than the eBay ones but couldn’t tell me how they are better. They even seemed offended by the question and were a bit rude telling me to go buy the eBay one if I am looking for cheap machines… ouch!

I read several complaints from people who were cheated by this company, not delivering the components the customers paid for, and then not admitting they did anything wrong. That’s not much of a confidence builder in their products.
I guess my question is if anyone is familiar with comparisons between these machines and could offer some direction to a poor disoriented laser toddler, I would much appreciate it…
I’m just starting; is the ebay laser good enough for me? Or should I bite the extra$700 bullet and spring for teh GWeike?


Thanks

[Gary Hair]

I definitely don’t have the budget for a US laser machine


In my case if there will be a problem I wouldn’t know how to fix it or where to begin to look.

You'll never find a machine that will satisfy both of those statements.

[Bert Kemp]

all lasers even the top of the line have problems the more money you spend the more you can get other people to fix those problems. Otherwise you learn and get help here maybe.

[David Somers]

I agree with Gary...something has to give in your requirements I am afraid.
If you want to stay with a Chinese machine but have US support for it look at a machine like a Rabbit Laser USA machine, or Boss Laser as examples. I would avoid the Ebay offerings personally. If you do a search here on the Ebay machines you will find complaint after complaint, with some success mixed in. I think you are likely to need more knowledge of the laser function itself with an Ebay machine than if you bought straight from CHina from a reputable company like Gweike and Shenhui, etc.

Incidentally, if you are using this for a business you really need to consider your choices. If you dont have, and are unwilling or dont have time to learn that much about your machine you are almost forced to do a western provided machine, ranging from Rabbit Laser/Boss Laser etc up through Epilog, ULS and Trotec in order to have fast, reliable support to keep your business moving with little down time. You make your self reliant on tech support to minimize downtime which restricts who you can buy from.

[Jerome Stanek]

And if you want one anytime soon the Glowforge is out as they have not even started shipping yet and then they have a backlog of about a year. Glowforge is the unicorn or leprechaun no one has seen the finished unit.

[Glen Monaghan]

Johnes,

Let this sit for a week, then come back and re-read what you wrote and consider what it sounds like. You want to buy and use without effort a fairly complex machine that you won't try to and can't understand, and you don't want to pay much of anything for it but it needs to do everything you want with little effort on your part. You've read about a couple of machines and they form your candidate list, but one isn't actually available, one is from a wholly unknown source that is offering to sell you the cheapest machine of unknown provenance, and one is from a company in which you have little confidence. Is the ebay laser good enough for you based on that? Is the GWeike good enough? Nobody else can answer those questions for sure but you, and I suspect you would know the answer if you gave it some honest consideration. Personally, it sounds like you are trying to get in way over your head. If, as you say, using the laser is such a small part of your endeavors, then maybe you should take a different approach entirely. Perhaps you can contract with a local laser operator or hook up with a maker space and use their (almost certainly way better) laser? I read your story as a disaster in the making...

[David Somers]

Glen! Better said than anything we came up with so far!!!
Dave

[Doug Hoffman]

Also, the LG500 incudes shipping to a port, not delivery to your home or custom fees. I am sure this will add another $400 to $500 to your price, depending
on how far you are from a port

[Keith Winter]

#1 and #3 are junk machines. #2 is also going to require some know how.

All three of these machines conflict with your stated goal "the cheapest machine that will do the jobs I need with as little fixing and tweaking as possible, and consequently as little head-to-wall banging as possible on my part..."

Cheap AND low maintenance/little tweaking/more support typically do not go together. The cheaper the machine you buy typically the more effort on your part will be required and the smaller amount of support you will receive.

I think you really need to decide what is most important to you. Is it low maintenance/little tweaking/more support? OR cheap? Choose one and let's go from there.



Total newbie here. I want to buy a laser engraver/cutter to do the following jobs (the % shows how much I will be doing that particular job):
Engrave cylindrical wood pencils and rattan reeds used for weaving baskets (75%); Cut 2.5mm thick leather (15%); Cut acrylic boards (5% ); Cut patterns in ¼” wood boards (5%).
The working area needs to fit at least 18” long materials, which is why I have eliminated smaller machines form my list like the K40 40W China laser, which would much more fit my start-up wallet at this time.
I definitely don’t have the budget for a US laser machine, so I’ve been narrowing it to these three options:
1.- eBay - 50w CO2 USB China Laser Engraving Cutting Machine Engraver Cutter 300mm X 500mm - $1550 including shipping. It’s one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Precise-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-USB-Port-CE-/200640422116?hash=item2eb719e0e4:g:syIAAOSwPcVVt3B J


2.-G.Weike LG500 (desk) – also from China; $2120 including sea freight from China. The specs are here:http://www.wklaser.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&f=show&catid=128&l=2&id=251
3.- Glowforge basic 40W: 38″ x 20.75″ x 8.25″ (965mm x 527mm x 210mm). $2500 including Shipping. The specs are here:https://glowforge.com/tech-specs/

(https://glowforge.com/tech-specs/)

My intention is to get the cheapest machine that will do the jobs I need with as little fixing and tweaking as possible, and consequently as little head-to-wall banging as possible on my part...:o Some voices said that Chinese lasers are unreliable and that buying one is a gamble, that their software are pirated and may not work properly. In my case if there will be a problem I wouldn’t know how to fix it or where to begin to look. IF laser engravers are in any way similar to printers, well I'm at the level of the guy who buys the printers and knows how to operate them, but I’ve never had to open them up and figure out which circuit is busted or what’s causing a problem. An I am not looking to spend a hole to of time learning if I can avoind it.
I understand that with the Chinese lasers you need to learn about their components, have some knowledge of electronics (which I don’t), in order to figure out how to fix problems. Using the laser is such a small part of my endeavors that I simply wouldn’t have the time to spend on learning where the problems are, which components to take out, take apart and fix this kind of a machine. I can manage a certain altitude of a learning curve, but the whole rest of my business is going to suffer if I will have to spend a lot of time becoming an expert on China laser machines. I would rather not have to do that.


So I believe that the Glowforge is a much better fit for my needs. However, it is not clear that it can do what they promise it will do. It seems there is a lot of hype surrounding it but no proof that it can deliver. Besides, I would have to wait 6mo to a year, or more, to get one. They don’t have any sort of timetable as to when I might get one if I order it now.
So I’m kind of forced to consider the Chinese machines instead. Is the G. Weike machine really worth a 3rd of the price more than the eBay machine? I emailed G.Weike and they just said their machines are better than the eBay ones but couldn’t tell me how they are better. They even seemed offended by the question and were a bit rude telling me to go buy the eBay one if I am looking for cheap machines… ouch!

I read several complaints from people who were cheated by this company, not delivering the components the customers paid for, and then not admitting they did anything wrong. That’s not much of a confidence builder in their products.
I guess my question is if anyone is familiar with comparisons between these machines and could offer some direction to a poor disoriented laser toddler, I would much appreciate it…
I’m just starting; is the ebay laser good enough for me? Or should I bite the extra$700 bullet and spring for teh GWeike?


Thanks

[Bill George]

Frankly a little reading and research here would save a lot of time. This question has been asked about once or twice per week for years. I would wait for the Glowforge if you want a sure thing.

[Kev Williams]

Suppose you need a vehicle that will reliably go 150 miles every day to deliver the parts you're making to your customers, which would you likely buy:
A $2000 12 year old Dodge Caravan with 270,000 miles, or a $12,000 5 year old Chevy Equinox with 55,000 miles?

Pretty much the same thing with buying a laser: both will do the job, and maybe the cheaper version will give you great service, but the fact remains, it's highly likely the cheaper one will give you more grief, and sooner rather than later...

I use that analogy from experience, I have $1400 Chevy van I bought last July, lots of miles and dents, but gets me around fine! BUT, virtually every 'non-critical- idiot light is on! It IS going to need fixing SOON!

That all said, I'm not really sure you want to hear "find a used western machine" because they're up there in the $12,000 Equinox bracket. However, you'll have a more reliable, more useful, and much easier to learn and operate machine (<<< can't stress enough how important this is, ALSO from experience!), that will actually hold it's value.

:)

[Rich Harman]

I’m just starting; is the ebay laser good enough for me?
No.

Or should I bite the extra$700 bullet and spring for teh GWeike?


Yes.

That was easy :-)

[Rich Harman]

...In my case if there will be a problem I wouldn’t know how to fix it or where to begin to look.

Seems to me that he knows exactly where to begin to look. :D

[Bill George]

Seems to me that he knows exactly where to begin to look. :D

Agreed, if you need help finding the fuses or operation of that Chinese laser good luck. We have lots of those everyday here. Ray at Rabbit Laser USA is only one of a very few venders selling Chinese lasers with support.

[Bert Kemp]

yea a sure thing to burn his house down



Frankly a little reading and research here would save a lot of time. This question has been asked about once or twice per week for years. I would wait for the Glowforge if you want a sure thing.

[Bert Kemp]

another thing you haven't even begun to consider is learning the software. you say as little head banging as possible wait til you try to learn core:eek:l.

[Keith Downing]

I recently purchased a boss laser, and while their entry level machines are a little more than your current budget, I'd say you should be looking at them or Rabbit laser. You pay a little more than if you import a chines laser yourself, but you're getting a machine that's been tested, that has US support, THAT HAS A REAL WARRANTY, and that has software intended for US users. IMHO the price markup is nothing compared to the value of those things.

And the others here are correct: if you are using this for an existing business (or to start one), you don't want to be working with a cheap ebay or chinese laser that you don't understand. It will cause you more headaches and waste more of your time than you could probably imagine.

[Bill George]

This was in your post and it looks to be the last and only one?
I understand that with the Chinese lasers you need to learn about their components, have some knowledge of electronics (which I don’t), in order to figure out how to fix problems. Using the laser is such a small part of my endeavors that I simply wouldn’t have the time to spend on learning where the problems are, which components to take out, take apart and fix this kind of a machine. I can manage a certain altitude of a learning curve, but the whole rest of my business is going to suffer if I will have to spend a lot of time becoming an expert on China laser machines. I would rather not have to do that.


​No experience with fixing anything electric or electronics related, no experience in design software and don't want to have any learning curve. So your expectations are not in line with someone who wants to buy a cheap Chinese laser.

[Johnes Michal]

And if you want one anytime soon the Glowforge is out as they have not even started shipping yet and then they have a backlog of about a year. Glowforge is the unicorn or leprechaun no one has seen the finished unit.

This is kind of, uhh...
My feelings exactly

[Johnes Michal]

yea a sure thing to burn his house down
Ha, ha: great reply. Hey I may be a newbie at this, and I may seem like an idiot to many of you, but I got some sense believe it or not; And why I don't jump up all excited on the golwforge wagon is because I got that same sense from studying about glowforge: a prepped sugar cupcake with Co2 filling waiting to ... just perhaps...

[Johnes Michal]

another thing you haven't even begun to consider is learning the software. you say as little head banging as possible wait til you try to learn core:eek:l.

Yes I have considered it. Not sure what core you are reffering to. I do want to learn, but I don't want to hit a wall where nothing makes sense and no one can help me adn I'm forced to stall... Is that so unreasonable? Yeah so i don't have the money for a $15000 machine. I also don;t know a whole lot about laser machines, which incidentally is why I had hoped to get some helpful direction here. What are my best options. I am sorry I don't have you money or you knowledge......................................... .................................................. ...................!!!

[Bert Kemp]

I think your best bet is to save a few more bucks and get a Rabbit Laser from Ray Scott. He will deliver your machine set it up for you and teach you how to run it. ( he might have financing available Im not sure ask him)Once you have the machine we are here at SMC and Ray is a phone call away . I'm am a hobbyist and don't use my machine to make money, I made a mistake when I bought my first laser and did all that head banging then I decided to bite the bullet and buy this rabbit, I saved the money and got it and have never been happier. If I can learn to run this and learn corel anyone can.

[Johnes Michal]

No experience with fixing anything electric or electronics related, no experience in design software and don't want to have any learning curve. So your expectations are not in line with someone who wants to buy a cheap Chinese laser. [/QUOTE]

I don't know where you got the idea that I "don;t want to have any learning curve." I merely want to have a manageable curve as opposed to a ridiculously large one. I know where you are coming from: I am (among other things) a martial arts instructor. I have people coming to me and expecting to get results without putting in the proper pain and sweat. Well, I feel that you and many others have put in the time to learn everything there is to learn about these machines. I haven't .... yet. Mea culpa! I understand that you have put in your time in and I haven't.......... And I am not going to try to compare between the tenacity required to master martial arts as well as some other disciplines I've spent my live perfecting, and learning about a laser. there is only so much time in one's life to learn.... I respect yours. However, I am asking if there is a choice I can make that will minimize my learning curve in this area, that will allow me to incorporate it in my bigger picture. I don't have the time to become the kind of specialist that you are... That's all. But I do want to succeed. And for me succeeding means joggling a crate-full of things out of which only 10% is a laser machine. But I bet you that in a few years it will not seem to so unreasonable for someone to ask if they can get a machine that works without them having to know everything there is to know about its components, and have it "only" cost $2000. Perhaps you should re-read my statement which you incidentally pasted: "I can manage a certain altitude of a learning curve,", In other words Bill, I don't want to spend all of my time with this machine when my business involves several other disciplines which you, most likely, know nothing about. I would like to succeed,and I want to use a laser, but I am highly educated in other disciplines and I don't have neither the time nor the money to become a specialists on a laser. I promise you that when my business will become successful, I will consider hiring, and paying a lot of money for, a laser specialist. Until then I am asking for some help here. I thought that's what forums were for. Was I wrong? I think my questions did not insult anyone. I just asked if an ebay laser will do the jobs I described with only the minor tweaks that I can manage, and if the G.weike is really work the extra cash or not. If you don't know, just say so. Oh, if I gave you pleasure when you put me down, you're welcome!

[Johnes Michal]

I will! I just need some intelligent direction!

[Johnes Michal]

[QUOTE=David Somers;2543553] I think you are likely to need more knowledge of the laser function itself with an Ebay machine than if you bought straight from CHina from a reputable company like Gweike and Shenhui, etc.

that was part of my question. So, is the Gweike worth the extra $700 on top of the eBay machine on not?
thanks

[Johnes Michal]

that is a reasonable answer. Much appreciated

[Bert Kemp]

It maybe but you will get little if any support, parts if needed are 3 to 6 weeks away, and no one to help you set it up. Plus don't for get all the added fee's for customs taxes and brokerage fee's. You want headaches do a direct import, and if you mess up the paper work you could loose the whole thing and your money.


[QUOTE=David Somers;2543553] I think you are likely to need more knowledge of the laser function itself with an Ebay machine than if you bought straight from CHina from a reputable company like Gweike and Shenhui, etc.

that was part of my question. So, is the Gweike worth the extra $700 on top of the eBay machine on not?
thanks

[Bert Kemp]

will an ebay machine do the job NO


You want to minimize your learning curve will a gewike do that NO

Get a Chinese machine from a USA supplier who will support the machine and provide a good warranty and parts when necessary.
I think we've answered your questions

[Johnes Michal]

Johnes,

Let this sit for a week, then come back and re-read what you wrote and consider what it sounds like. You want to buy and use without effort a fairly complex machine that you won't try to and can't understand, and you don't want to pay much of anything for it but it needs to do everything you want with little effort on your part.

Glen,
Uhhh.....Do I still need to let this sit a weak if I have been already thinking about it day and night for the last year? I never said that I don't want to put any effort into this! I think I've explained my situation clearly enough. And at this point in time $2200 does not yet fall into the category of "not much of anything" for me.

[Jerome Stanek]

[QUOTE=Bert Kemp;2543910]It maybe but you will get little if any support, parts if needed are 3 to 6 weeks away, and no one to help you set it up. Plus don't for get all the added fee's for customs taxes and brokerage fee's. You want headaches do a direct import, and if you mess up the paper work you could loose the whole thing and your money.


Why are parts 3 to 6 weeks away there are suppliers here in the states and most parts can be shipped DHL

[Rich Harman]

It maybe but you will get little if any support, parts if needed are 3 to 6 weeks away, and no one to help you set it up. Plus don't for get all the added fee's for customs taxes and brokerage fee's. You want headaches do a direct import, and if you mess up the paper work you could loose the whole thing and your money.

I've imported two lasers and I disagree. Nothing wrong with paying someone for a service, but that service that they provide is something that you could do yourself, if you so desired. I like to take care of things myself whenever possible. In this case buying a laser from someone that takes care of all these things adds something like 50% (or more) to the cost. Not a good deal as far as I am concerned.

The support I received from Shenhui does not match your description. Neither does the time it took to get parts. There were a couple headaches on the first import. Nothing that I couldn't handle though. The second import was handled by a broker, it was actually cheaper than the first import, and the headache level was extremely low.