tablesaw blade wear

[Mike Ontko]

I've had my Forrest WWII through three projects now and am 3/4 of the way through my fourth. While I've switched over to a stacked dado I thought I'd take the opportunity to use the cleaning solution I got from Lee Valley. Looking at pitch deposits on the blade, however, I'm a little concerned at the pattern I'm seeing--radial spikes that seem to line up with the gullets of each tooth (see pics).

Is this a normal pattern for wear or pitch deposits, or do you think it indicates a problem with the saw arbor?

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[Andrew Hughes]

Looks like you were long over due for a blade cleaning.In surprised you were happy with the cut.I have a chopmaster 12 inch from Forrest.The tooling marks are familiar.I think it may be the way Forrest tunes the plates.
I hope I don't come across like your operations are lacking.I just clean my blades more often.

[Mike Ontko]

Andrew, no offense taken whatsoever (though a little embarrassment maybe). The amount of pitch you're seeing on the blade now didn't really come up until the project I'm currently working on. There was some buildup from the ash and beech I'd worked with on my previous projects, but it didn't become this pronounced until after finishing with quite a few board feet of CVG Douglas fir. The last few cuts in the cherry I've been working with were, well...less then optimal as you've already ascertained.

Knowing a little better now, I'll be more regular with my inspection and cleaning cycles. I just wasn't sure if this was a normal pitch pattern or what.

[Lee Schierer]

Have you checked your blade and fence alignment to your miter slot recently? It looks like you have been getting a lot of burning or at least smoke when you were cutting. Hopefully you weren't ripping with that blade. It really isn't made for ripping.

[Chris Fournier]

That looks like a 40 tooth blade to me and it would be just fine ripping, not ideal but perfectly within it's limits. Saw plates are never flat, metal moves when it is machined and the pitch on your blade shows just that. Is it your arbor? Nope, you yourself have identified that the high spots are associated with gullets, it is a saw plate issue. A magnetic base and a dial indicator would allow you to see just how flat your saw plate is and the pitch would predict the dials tale.

I have had band new blades (they had horrible run out) re-tensioned by a (different) very competent tooling company and they came out flat as pancakes.

Measure it, quantify it and move forward with a solution!

[Mike Ontko]

Have you checked your blade and fence alignment to your miter slot recently? It looks like you have been getting a lot of burning or at least smoke when you were cutting. Hopefully you weren't ripping with that blade. It really isn't made for ripping.

I'll admit it's not the best option for ripping, but the FW WWII is supposed to be a good all-purpose blade. But now that I've got most of the other shop basics taken care of, it might be wise to invest in a decent dedicated rip blade. I have checked the blade to table and blade to fence alignments and they're just fine. Although, I did use a combination square and not a dial indicator, so there's likely a small amount of slop.

And yes, you're right about the smoke. The last pieces I'd cut, after the fir, were from 8/4 cherry and there was a little binding in some spots (even though I use a splitter) that resulted in that burn.

[glenn bradley]

I think you'll notice a renewed performance after a good cleaning. The radial pattern doesn't concern me. I use a combo blade for a lot of my rough parts breakdown so, like yours it gets the bulk of the rough work. I do tend to swap blades for purpose as I begin final width ripping or length crosscuts so I get an opportunity to check my blades a little more often. I have learned that even if they don't look that bad, a few minutes for a clean up is always beneficial.

[scott spencer]

40T will rip pretty well up to 6/4 or so, and will cut 8/4 but that's a lot of heat and brute work for that blade. Better to get a ripper. Even the 30T WWII isn't ideal, but it'd be more efficient with less burning than the 40T. This Delta 35-611 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-10-x-18-FT-Grind-Carbide-Saw-Blade-35-611-/390105614825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad41b49e9&rmvSB=true) is a heck of a bargain on an 18T bulk ripper.

[Mike Ontko]

Just to show that I'm not a complete derelict in my shop maintenance, I've got some "after" pics of the same WWII blade following a cleaning using a brass brush and the cleaning solution from Lee Valley (mixed with water at about 1:6). I was surprised at how quickly and easily the baked on resins came off. In the future, I'll be a little more diligent with regular upkeep.



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[Bill White]

You could save some money by using Arm & Hammer WASHING SODA (not baking soda). Stupid cheap, and works with only warm water. Pour it down the drain after use. Keeps the drains clean too.
Bill

[Mike Ontko]

You could save some money by using Arm & Hammer WASHING SODA (not baking soda). Stupid cheap, and works with only warm water. Pour it down the drain after use. Keeps the drains clean too.
Bill

Thanks for the tip, Bill. I was just curious to try this product, but don't plan on shelling out the $$ for a refill. I've seen other recommendations on this board for simple green (with some concerns about potential harm to the carbide cutterhead brazings), but the washing soda sounds like a smarter, and more cost-effective solution (no pun intended).

[Andrew Hughes]

That looks perfect Mike.I use simple green I know I'm not supposed to but that's what I do.When I run out I'll try the washing soda.

[Ben Rivel]

You could save some money by using Arm & Hammer WASHING SODA (not baking soda). Stupid cheap, and works with only warm water. Pour it down the drain after use. Keeps the drains clean too.
Bill
This the stuff youre referring to? LINK (http://www.amazon.com/Church-03020-Arm-Hammer-Washing/dp/B0029XNTEU/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1458319698&sr=8-1&keywords=washing+soda)

[Mike Ontko]

I don't know if it's overkill, but I coat the blade with a thin layer of paste wax after it's been cleaned and dried. I know it'll be rubbed off wherever it makes contact with the wood, but at least the central portion will have some additional protection against humidity.

Good idea or bad?

[Ben Rivel]

I don't know if it's overkill, but I coat the blade with a thin layer of paste wax after it's been cleaned and dried. I know it'll be rubbed off wherever it makes contact with the wood, but at least the central portion will have done additional protection against humidity.

Good idea or bad?
I have asked a couple times around here if anyone did anything to "protect" the blade after its been cleaned and no one said anything so I assumed they didnt as it would just be rubbed off the first time it was used and worse could come off on the wood which might have adverse effects depending on what was used to protect the blade. Id guess unless you arent going to use the blade for a long time its not really beneficial to put anything on it.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Ben,I use just compressed air to dry my table saw blades after cleaning.
Sometimes I spray on some dry coat stuff on bandsaw blades if I'm not sure when I use them again.

[Jim Becker]

The cleaning sure was a good idea...the D-fir really left a lot of "stuff" behind.

I generally have one of my 40t WW-II blades on my saw, but if I'm going to "rip thick" or rip knarly material, I usually pull out the 20t WW-II ripping blade I have. It doesn't leave a glass-finish, but it powers through the thicker material really nicely...the space between the teeth, being larger, allows for better clearing of the kerf (same principle as re-sawing on a band-saw with the "correct" blade configuration) and a bit more bite on the angles. A good ripping blade is a nice investment that will pay off over time.

[Mike Ontko]

A good ripping blade is a nice investment that will pay off over time.

I get the feeling I'm receiving more than just a strong suggestion from this board ;) I've been comparing the dedicated rip blades offered by Forrest, Infinity, Freud, and the Delta 35-611 that Spencer mentioned a few posts earlier. My shop is still in its early development stages, and I was hoping (ignorantly, maybe) that a good combo blade would carry me along for while. No doubts that it's done that already, but what this appears to come down to is, a "right tool for the right job" kind of thing.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, you are hitting that nail correctly...the "right" tool(ing) makes a difference. Investing in a dedicated rip blade for thicker materials and heavy ripping will save you time and put less strain on your GP blades and saw. For the former, it will also help keep your WW-II sharper longer, too. If it makes a difference to you, My oldest WW-II dates back to the early 2000s and it's been sharpened a number of times. My other one is maybe a year or so newer and has also been back a few times for sharpening, etc. The moral to this story is that if you buy a good quality blade from any one of the manufacturers you mention that is generous with the carbide, your long term cost is going to be less than buying a 'cheap' blade that you can maybe get one or two sharpening passes on. I know that when my 10" WW-II blade actually come to their end-of life, I'll most likely replace them with similar new ones, although in 12" since my saw can take those.

[Jim Andrew]

I clean my blades often, using the spray bit and blade cleaner I ordered from Grizzly. Used to replace blades, now just clean them. Bought 3 bosch brand rip blades at Menards on closeout, dirt cheap. They are made in China, so was not expecting much, but they are pretty good.

[peter gagliardi]

A couple things;
When ripping, the blade should be at a minimum, at least high enough that the bottom of the gullets clears the work- NOT the bottom of the tooth. Higher is better for ripping.

The distance from fence to front of blade should be a few thousandths smaller than from fence to back of blade.

Also, it would be good to check your splitter thickness dimension against your saw blade kerf. It should be within ideally .005 - .008" less than the saw kerf, and aligned with the rip fence side of the blade.

I run that blade in a 12" size on my small Martin slider, in a full time shop. I never get that kind of buildup/burning, even after 6-8 months, and potentially a dozen or more large projects.
Something isn't quite right and needs tweaking, you just gotta chase out the problem.

[claudia hayward]

You could save some money by using Arm & Hammer WASHING SODA (not baking soda). Stupid cheap, and works with only warm water. Pour it down the drain after use. Keeps the drains clean too.


Better yet, make your own washing soda. Put some baking SODA on a cookie sheet, bake in the oven at 400 for about half an hour. Comes out as granular washing soda. Put your sawblade in warm water for a couple of minutes then scrub with a toothbrush and paste of the washing soda. Really cheap and easy....

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have had good lucking cleaning my blades with Blade and bit cleaner that I purchased from wood craft (www.woodcraft.com/Product/128479/(H)-BLADE-AND-BIT-8-OZ.aspx)

I also have the Rockler branded stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Router-Bit-Saw-Blade-Cleaning/dp/B001DSZS78

I have had similar experiences with Pine. Long use, no cleaning, run some pine through it and it is time to clean the blade.

I really like my WWII 40T. I purchased a 48T to try. It certainly does a better job on ply, but, if it really matters I drop in my plywood blade. For general use, I strongly prefer the 40T to the 48T version.