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View Full Version : Board feet- is this industry standard to add to the total?



Malcolm Schweizer
03-16-2016, 2:13 PM
I just ordered some Ash lumber, and I will not name the supplier because they have been wonderful to work with, and I don't want to shed them in a bad light, but as he verified my total before charging my card, he told me the total bft. His total didn't match mine, so I went through the rudimentary- "Okay, let's do the math- each board is 132" x 8" x 2" = 2112/144= 14.666 bft per board...." "No sir, you have to also multiply by 1.07." "Wait, what???" "Yes sir, it's hard to explain, but that's how we calculate board feet." "But what is the extra for- is this a fee for surfacing, because you said that was free?" "No sir, this is just how we calculate bft."

So obviously they are adding 7% to the total bft. I am not going to complain because the guy is selling me actually 11 to 12 foot lengths, and charging me only for 11' since he can't tell me up front how many 11 and how many 12 I'll get, but I'm kind of baffled at this practice. I did ask if that was because he estimated the board feet and he said no, this is how they do board feet and he is only charging me for 11' lengths.

Anyone want to explain to me if this is some new industry standard and why? This is rough cut lumber. He told me he would S2S for free, so it's not a fee for surfacing. I'm still coming out ahead on shipping and everything, but I just thought this odd when I did a whole cost sheet based on the "normal" way to calculate bft before placing my order. Seems they would have told me in advance, "Oh, by the way, we multiply the board feet by 1.07."

They have been wonderful to work with, and helped me out a lot. They also gave me a great price even with the 1.07 multiplier. I am still happy, but I am just trying to understand this practice- is it normal? I buy from the states a lot and this is the first time I have seen this.

Gerry Grzadzinski
03-16-2016, 2:53 PM
Our supplier claims it's for shrinkage in the kiln.
I think this is only done by wholesale sellers.

Mel Fulks
03-16-2016, 2:55 PM
Standard around here. Basically it's for 'how big the wood was before it shrank'. The few suppliers who don't add it have already figured it in the board foot price and always make a point of saying " it's already added" when giving a quote.

Art Mann
03-16-2016, 3:03 PM
This is absolutely not a standard practice everywhere. I have never paid for 7% more lumber than I bought. I have never even heard of anyone else doing it. It sounds like simple deception to me. If the sawyer needs to get an additional 7% for his product, then he needs to reflect that in the Board-foot price. You pay for shrinkage when you pay for kiln drying.

Daniel O'Neill
03-16-2016, 3:09 PM
I'm not a big purchaser of lumber but generally I hate stuff like this. In the town I work in there's a mill that sells wood thinner than advertised. I go two towns over to make sure I'm getting the thicknesses that I need/want.

Prashun Patel
03-16-2016, 3:27 PM
I have had dealers sell me slightly more than I wanted to exactly buy because they didn't want to break down the final board and be stuck with a short. I totally understand that, and while I end up paying a little more, you GET what you pay for.

I have also had dealers charge a premium for extra wide widths; that was done on a flat percentage basis. Is he charging you a premium for >8ft lengths?

(dumb question alert): is the 1.07 for sales tax?

Malcolm Schweizer
03-16-2016, 3:46 PM
I figured this was supposed to be for shrinkage, but I am buying the wood already kiln dried from existing stock. (Actually, he ordered it from his supplier's existing stock, but it shipped same day, so this wasn't something they put in the kiln when I ordered it.) I could understand if it was green lumber and was being kiln dried to order. He is a reseller who ordered it custom from his wholesaler because he didn't have 8/4 in stock, but I kind of thought this was odd.

The funny thing is if he had just quoted me 7% higher price/bft in the first place I still would have bought from him because the landed price was cheaper than many places I had contacted before adding shipping. He is also taking it to the ocean freight forwarder for me free of charge, and agreed AFTER giving me a quote to throw in surfacing two sides for me at no cost. Like I said, I was happy overall, but this was a surprise.

Well good grief- literally as I type the above paragraph, the guy called me back and said he charged my card, but forgot to add the $50 fee to deliver to the freight forwarder. Really, dude??? You told me you would ship it- we even verified all the costs before you charged me and I asked if that included delivery to Tropical Shipping. So this is all just very disappointing. I buy a lot of wood and this guy could have had a customer for a long time. As always, a deal turns out not to be that great of a deal.

Gerry Grzadzinski
03-16-2016, 4:21 PM
I never understood it either. The only way it remotely makes any sense is if the supplier is buying the wood green.
But even then, it always feels like he's ripping you off the 7%. I think it would make the customer happier if they included the 7% in the price.

Prashun Patel
03-16-2016, 4:31 PM
This reminds me of when I went to college (gulp 25 years ago) and after charging the (then) horrendous tuition fee, they charged me a mandatory $20 for an athletic center membership, which I had to take in order to take the swim test which was mandatory for graduation.

Cody Colston
03-16-2016, 7:09 PM
I rarely buy wood but I would expect the bf price to cover everything except sales tax. Advertising/quoting at one price and then tacking on 7% that is not taxes is deceptive in my opinion.

Malcolm Schweizer
03-16-2016, 8:30 PM
This reminds me of when I went to college (gulp 25 years ago) and after charging the (then) horrendous tuition fee, they charged me a mandatory $20 for an athletic center membership, which I had to take in order to take the swim test which was mandatory for graduation.

LOL! Has your ability to swim helped you in the business world? I often have to "sink or swim" in my job. Good thing I'm a good free diver.

Chris Fournier
03-21-2016, 9:09 PM
Shrinkage. Depending on where in the sales food chain you buy your wood you may well pay it. The closer you get to retail the less likely you are to come across this.

Matt Evans
03-21-2016, 11:24 PM
Not something I've come across. I buy from 5-6 places, ones a retail store, the rest are either mills, builders supply, or wholesale lumber. Each place I get a price per bdft, and I pay for the amount I buy, plus tax, and thats it. Two of the places even have delivery routes that are a very reasonable flat fee if I don't have time to go pick it up.

I'd not buy from a place that tried to tack that on. It would be one thing if it was stated up front before a transaction was finalized, but to suddenly spring an extra unexplainable fee on a customer? (and that extra delivery charge would have me canceling an order)

Scott T Smith
03-22-2016, 12:35 AM
Lumber can be sold on the green scale or dry scale, and your supplier is selling on the green scale. That's why it was scaled 7% higher than dry.

When a sawmill purchases logs, they typically pay for theoretical gross board footage based upon the log scale. Accordingly, some millers charge for their dry lumber on the green scale in order to offset how they purchased their logs.

They are not ripping you off by doing this, it is an accepted practice in the industry. Having said that, good business practices dictate that the seller should educate their customer about how their lumber is scaled.

Malcolm Schweizer
03-22-2016, 9:31 AM
Interesting, and thanks for the responses. I knew of a green lumber fee or shrinkage fee, but never saw this in lumber bought already dried. As for the delivery fee, I have to sometimes explain to folks about shipping to an ocean forwarder, and finding a guy in the Miami area that can get what I need and is familiar with delivering to Tropical Shipping is worth the $50. I was dealing with a young guy. I believe he was not trying to rip me off but was just not really used to this type of situation. I believe he was saying shipping to him was free, and oh we can get it to Tropical for you too- no problem. To me that means no extra cost. They were very helpful. The kid seemed perhaps to be new. He did plane the wood for free (and that was after we finalized the price, so it wasn't trickery) and he is bundling it for shipping and providing a certification for offshore shipping, which also most folks charge for. He is even sending me a picture of the wood prior to shipping.

Cody Colston
03-22-2016, 1:55 PM
I'm curious. Since you've used this supplier before, did previous pricing have the 7% added or was this the first time?

Hoang N Nguyen
03-22-2016, 3:15 PM
I lumber yard I go to also tacks on 7% to my final BF. It was a shock to me at first, but now I just add it on myself before checking out. I believe they told me it was for shrinkage as well.

Jamie Buxton
03-22-2016, 3:15 PM
I've had a mill pull the actual dimensions of S4S lumber, and then multiply by 1.2 or something, to calculate what the board footage was when the lumber was green. Then they applied their board-foot price to that. Apparently they really only thought in terms of roughsawn lumber.

Malcolm Schweizer
03-22-2016, 4:44 PM
I'm curious. Since you've used this supplier before, did previous pricing have the 7% added or was this the first time?

Maybe something I said misled, but this is the first time I have used them. They are very familiar with shipping to the Caribbean, and knew exactly what to do with Tropical Shipping (the ocean carrier.) Maybe when I said that it made it sound like I have bought from them before. That said, I actually called them back and ordered four more boards because it won't cost me any extra to ship once bundled. I calculated the dimensional weight with a 42" wide pallet, but they are making a custom skid so it will be 10" narrower, giving me room to add to the bundle. :-)

The experience was overall very good. I said it earlier, but I believe this guy was kind of new and just miscommunicated on the "free delivery" being from the supplier to him, rather than from him to the shipping dock. No worries. I saved a lot of money from other places I price checked, and I get my wood quicker since he's in Florida.

Chris Padilla
03-22-2016, 6:07 PM
Too bad the guy you worked with wasn't able to explain WHY there was a 7% charge added. He has not been properly trained and that is management's fault. Had he been able to explain this to you, the thread might not have existed but I think we've all been educated now.