SawStop Dado question (recommendation)

[Raymond Seward]

So....I got my SS.....but finding out they do not recommend 8" dados with full blade chippers.....what should I use? What do you use?
Thanks
Ray

[Mike Henderson]

I have a SS but never used a dado set in it. I'll be interested to see what you find out.

But one good way to get SS answers is to call SS. They're very responsive.

Mike

[Mike Nguyen]

I called SS regarding my Oslun dado stack few years ago and they said they don't recommend it using as full stack. But I only need to use it as 3/8" so I used it anyways and it's no problem at all. I use my dado stack in conjunction with the Wixey DRO so I never used as full stack. I later got a Dewalt DW7670 dado stack from Amazon when it was on sale for less than $90 and this set does not have full blade chippers.
Mike

[Wade Lippman]

What is the problem, too much mass?
Cutting a dado doesn't seem particularly dangerous as long as it runs.

[Dave Anthony]

I use a Freud D208 8" stack, never had any problems (you will need a dado cartridge and a dado insert). Not sure what a "full blade chipper' is, though I have seen sets where the outer blades look more like a normal saw blade. This set has 2 twelve tooth outer blades and 3 two wing chippers, along with a few spacers to dial in widths.

[BOB OLINGER]

My recollection without looking is that Sawstop doesn't recommend the "dialer" dado set-ups. I have a Frued 8" set coupled with the dato cartridge and get along fine. Frankly, I love the Freud dado set.

[Mike Henderson]

What is the problem, too much mass?
Cutting a dado doesn't seem particularly dangerous as long as it runs.
Maybe it has to do with whether the brake can stop the dado set fast enough. If too much mass, it may not stop it quick enough.

Mike

[glenn bradley]

Right, its a weight issue that causes the concern. Nothing in the 3HP PCS manual about the types of chippers, just the instructions to use the right cartridge and insert. Where did you see this info? I run a Freud SD-508 and a CMT that strongly resembles a Freud SD-308 and a DeWalt 7670. None of these use full plate chippers. I'm not saying this is right or best; its just what I do.

[jerry cousins]

i have used freud 8" dado set with all widths - never heard of the warning you are mentioning - using a different table insert and different brake - but never had a problem.
jerry

[Curtis Myers]

I've been using the Forest 8" dado's for 4 years with zero issues so far.
You need the special Sawstop brake cartridge for 8-inch dado sets. They are wider and support the 8 inch diameter blades/cutters vise 10" typical saw blades.

[Jon Nuckles]

The manual recommends against them because the brake may not be able to stop them quickly enough to prevent injury. it won't hurt the saw to use them. I use a Freud Superdado.

[Raymond Seward]

Thanks for your replies...yes...double checked with SS support (which is OUTSTANDING) BTW) full blade chippers are NOT recommended ( example is Avenger AV-84206 Stack dado set) It is the mass and most likely would cause arbor damage if the cartridge is tripped...They also do not recommend any blade with anti kick-back bumps (such as Freud LU87R010 has). It seems it takes about a half blade rotation EXTRA to stop cause those bumps prevent the teeth from digging into the pawl. NOTE: The blade examples given are MINE not SawStops. Just trying to show an example of the TYPE of blades they are talking about. I asked the Tech I spoke with what blade he uses and it was Dewalt DW7670....SS does not offer any recommendations

[Ben Rivel]

Forrest Dado King here.

[Curtis Myers]

Thanks for your replies...yes...double checked with SS support (which is OUTSTANDING) BTW) full blade chippers are NOT recommended ( example is Avenger AV-84206 Stack dado set) It is the mass and most likely would cause arbor damage if the cartridge is tripped...They also do not recommend any blade with anti kick-back bumps (such as Freud LU87R010 has). It seems it takes about a half blade rotation EXTRA to stop cause those bumps prevent the teeth from digging into the pawl. NOTE: The blade examples given are MINE not SawStops. Just trying to show an example of the TYPE of blades they are talking about. I asked the Tech I spoke with what blade he uses and it was Dewalt DW7670....SS does not offer any recommendations



You always have the option to disengage the saftey cartridge for dado cuts.

[glenn bradley]

I have found the Saw Stop folks to be very conscientious but, wonder if this is an employees opinion or an actual company recommendation(?). It is probably not bad advice but, I find it interesting that Tech Support would have this opinion yet, it does not appear in the manual. Not arguing the point, just sayin' :). What model were you discussing?

[Raymond Seward]

The PCS175....

[Jon Nuckles]

I could have sworn that the warning against using dado sets with full blade chippers was in my manual. I am not at my shop, so I downloaded the current version for the PCS and cannot find that warning. I do see the warning against using dado sets wider than 13/16" and molding heads, so I am sure I am looking in the right place. Either I read it elsewhere (I know I didn't talk to customer service about it), or they have taken it out of the version of the manual after I got mine. I'll have to look at my manual next time I get to the shop. Of course, if my memory of reading it is incorrect, what are the chances that I will remember to look at the manual?

[Ben Rivel]

I could have sworn that the warning against using dado sets with full blade chippers was in my manual. I am not at my shop, so I downloaded the current version for the PCS and cannot find that warning. I do see the warning against using dado sets wider than 13/16" and molding heads, so I am sure I am looking in the right place. Either I read it elsewhere (I know I didn't talk to customer service about it), or they have taken it out of the version of the manual after I got mine. I'll have to look at my manual next time I get to the shop. Of course, if my memory of reading it is incorrect, what are the chances that I will remember to look at the manual?
I bought mine a few months ago and the only warning in my manual with respect to dado stacks was the max width one.

[glenn bradley]

The PCS175....

Thanks Raymond. Since this thread has stimulated a bit of conversation and we have many SS owners here I will add a response from Saw Stop as to my concern that this is not in "my" manual ;-)

"Hi Glenn,

Thank you for contacting SawStop. In response to your request, this is a SawStop guideline. Do not use dado sets with solid-plate interior chippers or blades with molding heads, as neither brake cartridge is designed to stop those blade types. Thanks for checking.

Don’t wait for an accident, buy SawStop today

Amber Hayter
Sales Support Specialist
SawStop, LLC."

Before the peasants rise up with pitchforks and torches let's recall that many saws have restrictions as to dado heads and other heavy tooling. Some restrict width based on arbor length or structural design targets, some require an arbor change and come capable of doing this, etc. Tool up appropriately, have fun and let's be careful out there ;-)

[John C Bush]

I've used my Dadonator--which has three chip cutter per chip blade-- full width at times-- and use the arbor nut without the flange washer if there is limited arbor length. Has worked well with my 3hp ICS.

[Ben Rivel]

I've used my Dadonator--which has three chip cutter per chip blade-- full width at times-- and use the arbor nut without the flange washer if there is limited arbor length. Has worked well with my 3hp ICS.
I dont think there is a question as to whether or not these dado setups will "work", sure many non-recommended setups will spin on the arbor and cut, but the issue is will they render the braking mechanism useless should the blade come in contact with flesh and it will not stop fully or function properly. It seem it will not and thats why SawStop advises against their use.

[Raymond Seward]

I dont think there is a question as to whether or not these dado setups will "work", sure many non-recommended setups will spin on the arbor and cut, but the issue is will they render the braking mechanism useless should the blade come in contact with flesh and it will not stop fully or function properly. It seem it will not and thats why SawStop advises against their use.

Yup that's the point Ben and being safe is why I dropped a big dime on the saw...it would be foolhardy on MY part to do otherwise....and thanks to Glenn for including his response from SS :-)

[Ben Rivel]

Yup that's the point Ben and being safe is why I dropped a big dime on the saw...it would be foolhardy on MY part to do otherwise....and thanks to Glenn for including his response from SS :-)
Agreed and same here.

[scott spencer]

The concern is total mass, and the how long it takes for the Saw Stop safety brake to stop a particular set. Some 8" sets use chippers that are nearly full diameter plates with short shoulders and carbide attached....the Systimatic 42T Superfine set and it's many clones come to mind (Oshlun, Grizzly, HF, Avenger, MLCS, etc). Other sets use long "arms" that have a fraction of the mass....designs that come to mind are the Forrest, Ridge Carbide, and the Delta/DeWalt 7670 are examples of a style that uses arms vs full plates, but the sets from Freud, Marples, CMT, Amana have sets that are similar variation. The Infinity Dadonator is somewhere in between, having about 3/4 of a full plate with arms extending from it. CMT takes a unique approach, and reduces mass by removing sections of the plate. Obviously using just 2 or 3 total blades from a set that uses full plates will weigh less, and shouldn't be a problem for the safety brake. Their concern would be a full stack of the full plate sets.

Set with full plate chipper:
http://toolcity.com/images/products/detail/SDS0842200.jpg


Set with chippers that use the "arm" design:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/712SWSQVKHL._SX355_.gif http://50.23.231.98/assets/pictures/reviews/644353.jpg http://www.justfreud.com/Graphics/saw_blades/SD200_250.jpg

Dadonator:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41LhkQ6-8YL._SS400_.jpg

CMT set:
http://woodworkersoutpost.com/images/230%20b.jpg

[Derek Stockley]

Strictly to the question of where this warning appears, there is a paper insert included with the 8" brake cartridge with this warning.


I could have sworn that the warning against using dado sets with full blade chippers was in my manual. I am not at my shop, so I downloaded the current version for the PCS and cannot find that warning. I do see the warning against using dado sets wider than 13/16" and molding heads, so I am sure I am looking in the right place. Either I read it elsewhere (I know I didn't talk to customer service about it), or they have taken it out of the version of the manual after I got mine. I'll have to look at my manual next time I get to the shop. Of course, if my memory of reading it is incorrect, what are the chances that I will remember to look at the manual?

[Alan Lightstone]

FWIW, I have had my SawStop trigger on a Freud SD508 Super Dado set.

Seemed to stop the blade just fine, although mine was caused by metal contacting the blade, not a digit, so I can't say it would have stopped quick enough. But it did trigger and stop the blade. Expensive mistake.

334118

[David Kumm]

It's not the brake cartridge but the stress of stopping the extra weight on the bearings and 5/8" arbor. To retract the whole blade beneath the table and take that mass from 4000+ rpm to zero in a fraction of a second adds huge stress to every part affected. When they develop a system for stopping a larger blade based on a 1" arbor, the dado mass will become less relevant. Dave

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Do not use dado sets with solid-plate interior chippers or blades with molding heads, as neither brake cartridge is designed to stop those blade types.

I use my 8" Dado King from Forest. I do not know what a solid-plate means for certain, but, I think that the interior chippers on the Dado King are not solid-plate, only the two outer blades are. And I do not run it with a full stack. In my mind, I can only use a specific width, and i do not remember how wide that is.

[Ben Rivel]

I use my 8" Dado King from Forest. I do not know what a solid-plate means for certain, but, I think that the interior chippers on the Dado King are not solid-plate, only the two outer blades are. And I do not run it with a full stack. In my mind, I can only use a specific width, and i do not remember how wide that is.
See post #24 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241913-SawStop-Dado-question-(recommendation)&p=2542590#post2542590).