What hand saw for general rough cutting?

[Brian Sommers]

I'm seriously thinking of selling my table saw. I think I'm nuts, but I have a very small shop and I would love to build a nice long - at least 8' if not longer bench.

I need a good hand saw to just break up the stock.

Do I need both crosscut and rip or is there a one saw does both?

[Jim Koepke]

If you want to do it with just one saw, a rip saw can be used for crosscut tasks. The faster cutting saws, less points per inch, will leave a rougher edge than a slower cutting saw filed for crosscutting.

A saw filled for crosscutting tends to be extremely slow when used for rip cutting. The teeth tend to slip between the wood fibers.

Eventually, you may want to learn to sharpen your own saws so you can buy inexpensive yard sale finds and put them to work.

Depending on what your bench building plans entail, you might want to hang on to the table saw until after you are done building the bench.

Here is why I would like to have a table saw at times:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167535-Old-Saw-Ripping-Some-Ash

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

(off topic alert): Wow, Jim! I've never seen a picture of you! Just your fingers! That alone was worth the click!!!

[Jim Koepke]

(off topic alert): Wow, Jim! I've never seen a picture of you! Just your fingers! That alone was worth the click!!!

Those two aren't very flattering. Since then I have lost some weight, a chin or two and have gone back to wearing a belt. It is also about time for my annual haircut and beard removal.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

no picture, didn't happen, Jim ;)

Brian-
For my part, I've concluded it's best to have each - especially if you are looking to replace your tsaw. If you just wanted something for an occasional substitute, it might be able to get one, but if you're doing serious ripping and precision cross cutting, I think each saw has its merits.

[paul cottingham]

(off topic alert): Wow, Jim! I've never seen a picture of you! Just your fingers! That alone was worth the click!!!

Prashun beat me to it. Most tantalizing, Jim!

[paul cottingham]

For the OP: I use a 3.5 pt Rip, (seriously! And it isn't too hard to start!) and a 8 pt X-Cut for most stuff. Being a saw junky, I also have a buttload of more saws, but the next 2 would be my 7pt Rip and my 12 pt X-Cut.

if you are cagey, you should be able to find a couple saws in the 6-8 pt range, one X-Cut and one Rip on the used market for a reasonable price. Look for pre WWII saws, I prefer Disston and Atkins. If you don't mind the plate and handle being rough, but functional, you should be able to score fairly easily.

[Brent Cutshall]

Looking good Jim!
Brian, I do a little timber work and for going against the grain(lengthwise on the log)I use a froe. I don't know if you would be interested in this or not but if you are, it might take some time to get used to using a froe. For most crosscuting work, I use an 8tpi saw. I have to say, I'm about like Paul, I'm all about finding, restoring, and using old saws. For regular ripping I use an 8tpi rip saw. Best of luck!

[Brian Sommers]

I've decided to keep my TS for now. I'm afraid I will really regret it.
I plan on using it to rip

So, now I'm going to invest in a good x-cut hand saw. I'm looking at Rob Cosman or a Lie-Nielsen. The Later being a lot cheaper. They would be a good start, correct?

[David Eisenhauer]

There are lots of older good-brand handsaws (carpenter type vs joinery type) on the auction site, many of which come sharpened for use if you are interested in going that way. They do pop up here on the Classified section as well.

From Jim: "The light sawing goes slow, but it is not much work, exertion usually equals production." Agreed, kind of a "no-almost pain, slow-gain" kind of thing.

[Paul Sidener]

I have a pair from Wenzloff. They are awesome. The rip is 7pt and crosscut is 9pt. They are the ones from Lee Valley. They don't have them often, but they are worth the wait. They cost a little more then the ones from Lie Nielsen, and have a taller blade but same length. I also have a couple vintage Disston, also worth looking for. Vintage doesn't mean less expensive. Depending on the model and age they can be more expensive. I am wanting to get rid of my table saw as well. I find I do about 95% of my sawing with hand saws and my band saw. I have kept the saw around mainly for cutting plywood.

[paul cottingham]

I've decided to keep my TS for now. I'm afraid I will really regret it.
I plan on using it to rip

So, now I'm going to invest in a good x-cut hand saw. I'm looking at Rob Cosman or a Lie-Nielsen. The Later being a lot cheaper. They would be a good start, correct?

Are you talking about a backsaw? Or a handsaw? If a backsaw, don't discount the LV carcass saws, they are great tools for the money. If a handsaw, seriously look at the used market. If you are cagey, you can get damn fine pre WWII cross cuts very reasonably, especially if you don't care what it looks like. Hell, if you put the word out, you might even have someone just give you one, cause they don't want them.

[Prashun Patel]

Consider the veritas saws. They are regarded as being good values. I own the carcass cross cut saw and like it.

[Chris Hachet]

I have a pair from Wenzloff. They are awesome. The rip is 7pt and crosscut is 9pt. They are the ones from Lee Valley. They don't have them often, but they are worth the wait. They cost a little more then the ones from Lie Nielsen, and have a taller blade but same length. I also have a couple vintage Disston, also worth looking for. Vintage doesn't mean less expensive. Depending on the model and age they can be more expensive. I am wanting to get rid of my table saw as well. I find I do about 95% of my sawing with hand saws and my band saw. I have kept the saw around mainly for cutting plywood.

I am in the same boat. Eventually it will go, but I have been doing a good bit of work with plywood.

[Chris Hachet]

Are you talking about a backsaw? Or a handsaw? If a backsaw, don't discount the LV carcass saws, they are great tools for the money. If a handsaw, seriously look at the used market. If you are cagey, you can get damn fine pre WWII cross cuts very reasonably, especially if you don't care what it looks like. Hell, if you put the word out, you might even have someone just give you one, cause they don't want them.

I have the LV carcass saw, I like the way it cuts more slowly when I am working on cross cutting tennons in 3/4 inch stock.

[Pat Barry]

I've decided to keep my TS for now. I'm afraid I will really regret it.
I plan on using it to rip. So, now I'm going to invest in a good x-cut hand saw.
First off, I don't think any woodworker should be without a good rip and a good crosscut saw and a good backsaw and a good coping saw and ..., however, unless you have a really bad table saw or don't do much work, or only do small projects or don't handle much large material or are young and ready to take on the world, I don't understand why in the world you would want to give up your table saw. Even if you live up in the boondocks and don't have electrical service and must use a generator to run it, a table saw is an indispensible time and labor saving device, never mind the accuracy, repeatability, versatility, etc. I would never give up my tablesaw, no matter how much hand work I did.

[Matthew Hills]

IF you want to go this route, consider: a restored handsaw for crosscuts (e.g., http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/my-restored-vintage-saws.php )
and a bandsaw for the rips.

But this will be more work than what you're used to taking for granted on a tablesaw.

Matt

[steven c newman]

Yard sale finds, some of which were never used by their owners more than twice. I tend to keep a look out for those. Even got a Minty Disston D-23, 9ppi that was like new.......FREE. 333805

Others kind of wander in the door..
333804
Great Neck 8ppi. Was made back when this stil put an etch on the plate, rather than silk screened it on.

I think this one was less than $5 or so.

[John Sanford]

Cheat, and get a Ryoba.

[Don Slaughter]

I have a great Disston D-23 11 Point Xcut Panel Saw that I use almost daily....It is a great pleasure to use. I have an old but good thumb hole Disston 5 Point Rip saw that I grab for ripping but I 'don't like' ripping anything harder than poplar with it. Works fine but usually have to dress edges with a plane so "leave the line" when ripping.
good luck,

Don

[Kees Heiden]

I've got a 6 and a 9 ppi crosscut saw, both 26" long. I mostly use the 9 ppi, only very rarely when sawing really large timbers I pick up the 6 ppi saw.

My favorite ripsaw is 5 1/2 ppi. I also have a shorter 7 ppi for thin stuff.

BTW, I do have tablesaw but use it rarely for crosscutting. For ripping it's a great help, but the blade cuts only 6 cm high which is not much.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Brian,

I have a table saw, but use my hand saws more than the table saw. When working on some sort of carpentry job, if I know that there will have to be some rough cutting, or even some that be more like finish work cutting 1" stock, I carry either 3 or 4 hand saws. I always carry an 8 point cross cut saw, a 7 point rip saw, and a 10 point cross cut saw, although a 12 point crosscut would also be fine.

The 8 point cross cut is for rough cross cuts for framing, etc. The 10 (or 12) point cross cut saw is for finish work. Finally, the 7 point rip saw is for finish ripping. When I carry the 4th saw it has been a 4&1/2 rip saw for rough ripping.


Over the years, I have gotten so I don't carry my coarse rip saw often, partly because it is not a very good saw, and also partly because the 7 point is less tiring, and is still fairly fast and does a nicer job. A long time ago, when my wife and I bought our first house, I had to do a lot of work on the house, including putting in a new front door jamb. The door was a 3' 1&3/4" solid core door that was very heavy, and the first door jamb failed as it was thin pine and didn't take the weight of the door. There wasn't room to put in the heavy duty fir jamb that I would liked to have used, so I built the door jamb out of 3/4" oak, and had to rip it all by hand. The oak stood up well to the weight of the door.

I was young then, but ripping about 35 feet straight of 3/4" oak got old, but I didn't have a table saw, and had no choice.

At any rate, I highly suggest that these 3 hand saws are extremely useful for woodworking. If I were only going to have 2 they would be the finish rip and finish crosscut. It would depend, however, on what woodworking you did. If you just did carpentry framing, the crosscut would be an 8 point. For fine woodworking, though, get the two finish saws.

Handsaws used to be plentiful at garage sales and probably at flea markets, and were drastically cheaper than new saws. You can clean up a vintage Disston that was made before 1930, and have a very good saw. Be persnicity about what you buy, don't get one that is curved, pitted, or bent. You can clean off a bit of flash rust easily, but pits are a problem. Don't buy a problem that somebody else owns. I have repeatedly learned this the hard way. You will likely see a lot of Disston D-8s. These are good saws, you won't be handicapped by using one, and they are drastically cheaper than the #12s or D12s, if the seller knows what he has. You should be able to get a good used D8, that can be cleaned up with out too much trouble, for not too much money. If you find such a saw at a bargain price, buy it.

For what it's worth, if you go to garage sales and flea markets, you will find a lot of cross cut saws for every rip saw, and most of the rip saws you do find will have pretty coarse teeth. Most of the cross cut saws will be 8 points, so what do you do for a finish rip saw? Well, you can do what I did and have a crosscut retoothed, or you can take a standard 8 point crosscut and re-sharpen it to a rip saw without changing the tooth count, thus ending up with an 8 point rip, which should make a great finish rip saw. I may do that to one of my crosscut saws, and have thought about such a few times. For now, though 1 finish rip saw is enough.

Stew