How to plane without making a bow

[Daniel Rode]

I've gained a bit of skill using hand planes. The most common operations for me are flattening a board face and making and flat edge square to a face. In both instances, I always create a bow (center higher) in the work piece. It's become a normal practice for me to work the plane in the center to remove the bow and take one last full pass. It seems to me that I ought to be able to work such that I do not create the bow in the first place. I can plane an edge square to another, so there's no reason I shouldn't be able to plane flat :mad:

I get this with a #4, ,5, 6 and 7 and I get it with both faces and edges. So I'm sure it's something in my technique. I try to place more pressure at the front at the beginning, even pressure in the center and to the rear at the end but clearly I'm doing something wrong.

[Mike Cherry]

Any chance you use a tail vice to secure stock to the bench? That can cause the lumber to do weird things sometimes

[george wilson]

You are compressing the wood fibers a little,but all the way across the wood,so it bows to relieve the pressure of the compressed fibers. Is your plane extremely sharp?

[Daniel Rode]

While I do sometimes use the tail vice, I get the bow when I work in tail vice, face vice or use a planing stop.

I'm sure the irons are of varying sharpness. However, I sharpen often, so my irons rarely get used dull. Also, I don't think the board is moving as there's no hollow on the reverse. If I plane both sides I'd have 2 bows.

For the record, this is a small bow. a few thou at most.

[Dave Beauchesne]

It is common to apply more pressure at the start and end of the cut ( stroke ).
For example, when first learning proper technique, edge joining a board often ends up higher in the middle, both ends low.
I suspect your technique needs honing, pun intended, and make sure your cuts are light at the end of the process, as well as very sharp irons.
Nothing good comes of irons that aren't extremely sharp.
Good luck!!
Dave B

[george wilson]

You left out that important piece of info that the bow is only on ONE SIDE.

[Robert Engel]

I use more toe pressure at the start and less at the end.
I've practically got my hand off the front tote at the end of the board.
I picked this up from Tom Fidgeon.

[Tom M King]

Try light pressure all the way, instead of trying to put more at the start and finish on different parts of the plane. If the iron is sharp, it shouldn't take much pressure anywhere.

[Joel Thomas Runyan]

I'd call it a hump if it's occurring on faces and edges due to planing. Bow refers to a curving of the piece in reference to the face, crook refers to a curving of the piece in reference to the edge. You'll only find a bow or crook in one direction, as George said. If you remove an excess of material from one face and not much from the other, you're liable to sometimes make the piece bow. This can happen with edges, but less likely. So if you're definitely actually planing a curve into things, and the soles of your planes are not bowed:

1) Apply less pressure, everywhere. Your blade should be sharp enough to engage the wood by just the weight of the plane, consequently, to start the cut, you're almost just dragging the plane by the knob into the piece, and to finish the cut, you're scooting it off by holding onto the tote. On longish edges, I frequently finish the cut with a hand on the tote and one on the heel of the plane. If your blade is dull and/or you're in the habit of pressing down too hard, you're likely still starting and finishing the cut with weight in the wrong places. And wax your soles.

2) It's just the way of things, at least on longer pieces, and there's countless reasons why. Edges to be jointed, especially, I take a few waste strokes out of the middle amongst all the rest, in order to guarantee that, if anything, I have a hollow from which to work.

[Derek Cohen]

I've gained a bit of skill using hand planes. The most common operations for me are flattening a board face and making and flat edge square to a face. In both instances, I always create a bow (center higher) in the work piece. It's become a normal practice for me to work the plane in the center to remove the bow and take one last full pass. It seems to me that I ought to be able to work such that I do not create the bow in the first place. I can plane an edge square to another, so there's no reason I shouldn't be able to plane flat :mad:

I get this with a #4, ,5, 6 and 7 and I get it with both faces and edges. So I'm sure it's something in my technique. I try to place more pressure at the front at the beginning, even pressure in the center and to the rear at the end but clearly I'm doing something wrong.

Hi Dan

If you start with a bowed board, and plane down its length, you will end with a bowed board. You need to work the centre (high spot) first, then finish along the length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Allen Jordan]

I've always heard that, due to the geometry of the plane itself, getting a slight bow is almost unavoidable. Unlike a power jointer where the infeed bed adjusts and the blade is coplaner with the outfeed bed, a hand plane has the two beds fixed and the blade sticking up. This will make the plane transition mid-stroke from riding on high uncut wood to riding on the already-cut lower wood, and this rocking motion will make a little bow. The bow can be exaggerated by putting too much pressure at the beginning and end of a cut as well.

[Phil Mueller]

Dan, you're not alone. New here as well, and I've been known to get the same from planning. I saw a planning episode on the Woodwright show. Two tips; imagine you're planning a banana shape...or smiley face (kind of an airplane touch and go stroke), and do less downward pressure and more forward push. I check progress often...if a hump starts, I take a few strokes in the middle to bring it back down.

[Karl Wicklund]

I was once told to think of planing a bow down in the board. Imagining my pass to be slightly more aggressive in the middle seems to help even out the pass. I'm certainly still a novice, but it helps me arrive at a straight board.

[Mel Fulks]

And planing the convex side,regardless of method , often straightens both sides at once. Check the concave side with a straight edge and you will see it straightens or stays the same ,it will not get worse.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Derek. I should have been clearer. If the piece starts flat or hollowed, I still end up making a hump.

Hi Dan

If you start with a bowed board, and plane down its length, you will end with a bowed board. You need to work the centre (high spot) first, then finish along the length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Daniel Rode]

While I have read this in some places as well, I know that many folks here can make a perfectly flat pass with a plane. I'm more inclined to side with the experience of people I know to improve my mechanics. I've seen it done too many times to believe it's impossible :)


I've always heard that, due to the geometry of the plane itself, getting a slight bow is almost unavoidable. Unlike a power jointer where the infeed bed adjusts and the blade is coplaner with the outfeed bed, a hand plane has the two beds fixed and the blade sticking up. This will make the plane transition mid-stroke from riding on high uncut wood to riding on the already-cut lower wood, and this rocking motion will make a little bow. The bow can be exaggerated by putting too much pressure at the beginning and end of a cut as well.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks for all the tips!

I think I'm applying even pressure now but I'm going to make it a point of emphasis. If that does not improve, I'm going to try adding a little more pressure in the center.

[Prashun Patel]

Daniel, I am in your same boat. My results are improving as I am slowing down my passes and being more deliberate.

As the toe gals off the edge of the board, it is natural for the blade to be pushed more aggressively into the board than through the middle. When you can feel it doing that by going slow, you can stop it by relieving pressure on the knob near the end.

Sounds obvious, but takes some practice to get right. Once you feel it you will wonder how it was hard before.

[Mike Cherry]

Prashun mentioned on an earlier thread that he picked up some pointers from David Charlesworth. I believe the deliberate plane strokes he is mentioning is also an example of David's teachings. One other thing that I learned from Charlesworth is to make a few passes with your plane an inch or so in from workpiece and exit an inch or so early. Then take one or two final full length passes. This almost guarantees a flat, if not slightly concave, surface.

I highly recommend the planing videos from Charlesworth! He obviously explains it better than I could ever hope to.

[david charlesworth]

Let us say you want a straight edge in something 15 to 20 inches long.

Taking stop shavings, till the plane stops cutting, is a good way to start. i e. deliberately hollow the length. Preferably with something like a 5, 5 1/2 or 6. Not a smoother.
A stop shaving starts and finishes just inside the ends, say 6 to 10mm.

Having done that take one or two through shavings to clean the edge.

It should still be about 1 thou" hollow which is my definition of straight!

Try two edges together if you have no precision straight edge, and compare. (few woodworkers do have such a straightedge)

This technique is demonstrated in my second Lie-Nielsen DVD.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[david charlesworth]

If you take five or ten shavings off these "Straight edges" they will develop a small hump.

Handplanes do not have the correct geometry to produce straight edges on their own.

Perfectly set up machines do, but they have a moving "in table" "or front sole" which hand planes do not.

I find few people who are happy with these facts!

David

[Warren Mickley]

If you take five or ten shavings off these "Straight edges" they will develop a small hump.

Handplanes do not have the correct geometry to produce straight edges on their own.

Perfectly set up machines do, but they have a moving "in table" "or front sole" which hand planes do not.

I find few people who are happy with these facts!

David

I took two 23 inch pieces of cherry (Prunus serotina) and planed them so they mated nicely. Of course after 10 more full length shavings there was no hump, so I took off 100 shavings. The edge was still flat, no hump. The whole world is not limited to the skill of one man. I am sorry I cannot diagnose your problem.

[Daniel Rode]

I pulled a piece from the pile that was about 20" x 4" x 3/4". The board was slightly bowed in both directions. I proceeded to make all 4 edges straight, flat and square. I did not do anything different. I just slowed down and made sure I was methodical. I removed the hump and twist from one face. Made made the other face parallel and then made both edges flat and square. No humps.

I think Prashun touched on the problem. I was a bit overconfident and therefore sloppy.

Warren, thanks for taking the time to demonstrate that with sufficient skill, one can make repeated flat passes with a plane. I don't doubt that the the geometry of the sole might tend toward a hump but that doesn't mean we cannot compensate with the proper technique and negate this.

There is nothing wrong with working the way David Charlesworth describes. I've tried it and it works but I think I can (eventually) do as Warren describes.

For me, this is not an academic question. I know it can be done because I've seen it, at times I've done it, and I've talked to other who do it as a matter of course. My goal is to I learn to do it consistently.

On a related note. I've read many posts with people struggling to plane a square edge. I struggled too. After much practice, it became simple muscle memory. Today, I trust the squareness of an edge I made with a plane more that anything off my table saw or jointer. IMO, It's simply a matter of identifying the correct technique and practicing.

[Jim Koepke]

IMO, It's simply a matter of identifying the correct technique and practicing.

That is the story of woodworking whether it be, carving, turning, sawing, planing, cutting dovetails or other joinery. It takes discovering the mistakes and correcting them.

Once it is learned how to do it right, it is difficult to figure how it was being done wrong.

jtk

[Stanley Covington]

There are many excellent suggestions so far. The point someone else made about a bowed plane staying bowed is very important IMO. If you place a bowed board on your flat work surface, the force of the plane will push it down so that your plane won't take a full thickness shaving. Therefore, if the board is bowed, shim the gap between board underside and work surface with wood slips or newspaper or whatever it takes to keep the board from deflecting down.

Of course, if your work surface is not flat, crap is the reward,

[david charlesworth]

Well, I would be interested to hear from people who can reproduce Warren's "magical" result.

That experiment has been done thousands of times here, and a minute bump always returns. It gets slightly worse the more through shavings are taken.

David

[Derek Cohen]

Indeed David. Most of us have seen your demonstrations, and recognise what you are referring to.

Making statements of "I have no problem" without an explanation is just an empty comment.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

If one was to build a machine to plane an edge with this plane, I expect it could be built to either plane the edge into a hump, or cut a straight slice off of it leaving the edge straight. I think the trouble comes when you have to think about how to keep it straight. If you have to think about how to do it, you probably won't be successful. I believe the variations in pressure at landing, and takeoff of the plane are so subtle that language can't explain to you how to do it to keep the plane in the perfect plane. I also believe that it's quite possible for someone to be able to do it, and not be able to explain to you how to do it. In fact, the people who can do it are probably the ones who have the least possible chance of explaining it to you how to do it. It can be done repeatedly. I can't tell you how you will be able to do it.

[george wilson]

Generally,I am one of those who can do it without a hump. But,if I do get a hump,I take as few licks in the middle of the surface,and then plane the whole surface to re smooth and correct it.

As Tom mentioned,I think planing does involve innate pressure variations while planing which have been perfected from a lot of years of practice,and which the operator may not be consciously aware of.

I am teaching a student to play guitar right now,and it has caused me to become more aware that exceedingly small variations in "touch" when strumming the strings make a huge difference in tonal quality. The Standel amplifier,as the maker told me,will make you a better musician. It is so sensitive that it shows up the slightest mistake.

[Kees Heiden]

Today I was planing material for a wedge for a plane. I got it square all around. Still a bit too wide, and because one narrow side had some worm damage I decided to plane that side until the damage was gone. I think it took something like 20 medium thick shavings. I remembered this thread, so I checked if it was still straight.

Well, it was still straight. I have no idea really what I do to make or keep surfaces flat and straight with a handplane, but obviously I am doing something that is helpfull. I think putting pressure in the right spots plays a large role in this. I still remember very well when I wasn't able to do this and I invariably ended up with a bow in the surface.

[Scott Stafford]

I believe Allen is right.

Long ago when I was infatuated with my plane's ability to take .001" shavings, I would often create this hump. With each whisper thin pass I would exacerbate the situation. More passes... more hump.

Adjusting my depth of cut to better accommodate the correction I was trying to make mostly alleviated the problem. Maybe .005" or .01" passes. After all, it takes a lot of .001" passes to remove an 1/8" of wood.

BTW, I most always just settle my stock up to a stop or bench dog.


Scott in Montana

PS I am still infatuated with .001" shavings... just saying.

[Kees Heiden]

There is also something like "being in control". I was also doing some roughing work with a jackplane today. To be honest, I wasn't quite in control! Shavings were too thick, the plane bucked sometimes. When you're not in control, chances that you are not getting a flat surface are high. Getting a concave surface is almost impossible. So you end up with a bow, a convex surface. It'll probably be out of wind, skewed and wedge shaped too.

[Mark Maleski]

Let us say you want a straight edge in something 15 to 20 inches long.

Taking stop shavings, till the plane stops cutting, is a good way to start. i e. deliberately hollow the length. Preferably with something like a 5, 5 1/2 or 6. Not a smoother.
A stop shaving starts and finishes just inside the ends, say 6 to 10mm.
......
This technique is demonstrated in my second Lie-Nielsen DVD.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

I learned to do this via David's video when I was first learning and it still serves me well. I mostly avoid creating a hump these days but if I find I've added one I use this technique to get rid of it. Obviously you need to do this in the context of working to a line.

One other technique that I initially read from one of the {dreaded} bloggers, and that I think works well for beginners: visualize yourself trying to scoop out the center of the board with your plane. You won't be able to, but it's a good way to trick yourself into using the right mechanics. It's a little simpler than focusing on shifting downward pressure between hands as you progress through the slice.

[Christian Thompson]

There are several comments to weight the toe when starting and then the heel when ending which is important. If you do it the other way around the plane will climb up onto the start of board and fall off the end. I read somewhere to think of each stroke like you are trying to make a hollow. The flat sole of the plane won't let you, but the thought helps me transition the pressure correctly throughout the stroke. At least for me it's easier than thinking of pressuring the toe then the heal.

I also do what others are suggesting to work out the high spot in the middle and then work my way out to a final full length pass or two.

Edit - just reading through this thread again and noticed that I pretty much exactly duplicated Mark's post from directly above...

[Adam Cruea]

Huh. It's nice to see some of the old-time masters here have (or had) similar issues with that hump in the middle of planing.

Here I thought it was just me and I learned to start on the inside to create a small hollow, then plane the length of the board to level it out.

[david charlesworth]

This was exactly the technique, I was taught, 45 years ago.

David Charlesworth

[Warren Mickley]

I think a jointer plane that will not plane flat reliably and repeatedly is flawed. There are many times when we get the edge flat in length and then have to correct for wind, which could take several strokes. If those strokes are so bad that the edge is then humped, we would have to start over again.

If I had a jointer that would not repeat a flat surface, I think I would switch to a beech plane, jointer or trying plane, and alter the sole so that it would then plane flat. If the board's edge is humped to start with, planing just the high area in the middle is called for. However, I can't see constantly having to plane just the middle of the edge because of a faulty plane.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Somewhere I read that perfectly flat sole is not so good as slightly out of flat... If that is the case then I guess sole should have little hump to it.

[Daniel Rode]

I've read that a sufficiently skilled woodworker can make a flat surface reliably with a plane that has a slightly concave sole but a plane with a convex sole is a nightmare for all. The idea seems plausible but I can't prove it one way or another.

Somewhere I read that perfectly flat sole is not so good as slightly out of flat... If that is the case then I guess sole should have little hump to it.

[Kees Heiden]

This sounds like the wrong way around. With a concave planesole you certainly make a bowed edge. It also hampers the ability to take thin shavings. A slightly​ convex sole is less of a problem.

[Daniel Rode]

You are right. My response was backwards.

This sounds like the wrong way around. With a concave planesole you certainly make a bowed edge. It also hampers the ability to take thin shavings. A slightly​ convex sole is less of a problem.

[Robert Engel]

In trying to do a spring joint, I discovered it actually became nicely jointed after a couple full length passes. Wow.
For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what was going on till I realized maybe this is a better way to joint a board!

The Warren experience is, I believe, an illusion that begs the question what his definition of "flat" is.

[Daniel Rode]

The Warren experience is, I believe, an illusion that begs the question what his definition of "flat" is.

Re-read Warren's post. His two boards were fitted to one another without a gap. He then planed them and compared the edges. Unless he was able to plane a bow in one board and an exactly matching hollow in the other, it's a solid demonstration of flatness. I fail to see the illusion.