Plumbing in new 60 Gallon compressor

[Keith Downing]

Some may have seen my previous thread on what compressor to buy. Well I ended up upping my budget and getting the ingersoll rand SS3L3 60 gallon. It's huge and I love it already coming from an old 5 gallon.

Problem is, now I'm pretty much out of my depth on plumbing in the machine and the need for air control units, dry air systems, additional regulators, connecting the outlets. ETC ETC

I've been reading all morning and I'm pretty sure i want to go ahead and use the maxline 3/4" master kit to plumb the area. I know there has been a lot of debate on this in the past (I found a 2 page thread from about 6 years ago that seemed to make some good points then go in circles). This kit happens to be exactly the size I need at 100' and I want to go 3/4" for piece of mind. And I don't have the confidence/experience (or time) to do copper right.

The things i really don't know: What else do I need to add to the system? And in what order (ie after the tank but before the outlets? at outlets only for certain uses? etc)?

Do I need additional pressure controls for the individual tools that don't have them?

Also, I saw there are some timed water release drains? Are they really worth the $80-100? Or should I plumb in a pipe with a valve coming out from under the tank? I think the next size up on the IR line comes like that stock.

My primary uses will be basic air tools (nailers and maybe recip saw or sander) and spray finishing.

[Malcolm McLeod]

It has been a number of years, but spent some time as maintenance manager for a chemical company with BIG compressed air usage (we ran 75hp recip, 75hp screw, 100hp screw, and 150hp screw).

Any air system's weak point is water. You will always be pulling in humid air, and when it expands at a tool or process station, it cools below the dew point and you get liquid water. Quickly followed by rust in any steel pipe. An ADV on the compressor receiver tank is a good start. Properly sized FRL's (Filter/Regulator/Lubricator) at point-of-use are good investments and will bleed off some of the water and rust before it hits your process. You need to look at how much air in SCFM each station will use, and size FRL to suit. But, if you use very high volumes (perhaps at sander?), it will overwhelm the filter element.

If this is true in your case, you are probably looking at an air dryer installed between your compressor and the distribution lines. 'Refrigerated' type are the most common in industry. It cools 100% of the process air below the dew point before it even goes into the distribution lines (so you can safely use steel pipe). Most will have their own ADV as standard equipment, but it isn't a substitute for the same on the receiver.

...Sounds like you know what water could do to your spray finish operations, so will leave that alone.

Edit: Forgot, but the lubricator is optional at many stations. It does what you'd expect - puts oil in the line. It is adjustable, and perfect for adding life to tools and air actuators. ....Not so much for spraying lacquer!

[Charles P. Wright]

I just installed the Maxline 3/4" system for getting air from my shop to my garage. I added a valve to isolate the run from the shop to the garage and I also needed an elbow to negotiate the transition inside a wall. It went together pretty easily. One thing I needed to get, but didn't think of it until after I started, was 1/2" NPT to 1/4" reducers for the outlets.

[Mike Cutler]

Keith

Nothing wrong with the Maxline products. I've installed thousands of feet of copper airlines through the years, and wouldn't hesitate to use the Maxline Kits. I'd probably do copper myself, but that's really just because I've been doing it for years. ( I've also probably used just about every type of compression fitting for softline installations at one point or another.( Which is kinda strange, because I'm an electronics geek! At least that's supposed to be the main focus of my job.:eek: )

Malcolm is correct, moisture is your biggest enemy. In an industrial settings you would have huge drying towers on your compressor inlets, but in a small shop, or garage, that's just not economically feasible, so you need to control as much moisture as you can after the compressor. The ADV will help, but if you're banging a lot of air they're not going to be as effective as small bursts with a long recovery period. They're more for protecting the tank from accumulated internal moisture which collects in the bottom of the tank and can cause rust and corrosion over a long period of time.
Moisture control can be done at point of service, or at beginning of system, but will probably be a combination of both. A mechanical seperator at the beginning can remove a fair amount of moisture, but not enough, and would be be followed up next by an inline dessicant cartridge dryer. I would still recommend a mechanical moisture trap on the outlet for gross moisture to economize the use of dessicant in the inline dryer cartridge.
Trying to remove all the moisture from an entire system, even a small shop setup, would be difficult. It's better to control the final moisture content at the point of service, and most high quality spray suppliers have a wide range of products for this application. The pressure regulators for spraying are either built into the sprayer, or the regulator will be just ahead of the sprayer.
Any air system will generally incorporate some type of branch system. The main headers will be larger that the smaller branch service piping. A common method to aid in moisture removal is to install a tee trap on the outlet and run your initial compressor outlet piping vertical. The Tee trap would go the floor and help collect more moisture.
The horizontal main piping will have vertical drops to service ports, and once again it's easy and cheap to install a drip tee at each access port. These drip tee's won't remove much when everything is running, but when the system is static, condensation inside the piping will collect moisture in the drip legs.
You want to remove as much moisture as you can before any type of end point regulator save the regulator dessicant cartridge filter from doing any more work that it has to.
There are a lot of ways to "skin the cat". Start small and don't overwhelm yourself. Satisfy your immediate needs first and leave some room for future flexibility.

[Marty Tippin]

For casual hobbyist shop usage, you don't need to get too carried away (but you can, of course, if your budget and gadget-need allow).

I'd make sure you have a good regulator / dryer right at the outlet of the tank. I use one of these on my 60-gal tank and it works fine. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004P4569M

Add a manual drain valve on the bottom of your tank with an extension to make it easy to reach. Nothing fancy is required here - an elbow, nipple and ball valve are all you need. If you want to get fancy, an automatic drain valve can be added - I recently bought a very generic one that was shipped from China; haven't had time to install it yet but if it works, it'll be a good cheap solution. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018NCVSQQ

Personally, I set the pressure at the regulator on the tank one time a couple years ago and haven't touched it since. I don't use air for spraying finish (an Earlex HVLP system works way better), so I don't need a regulator at the end of the run or any additional driers, etc.

Your biggest challenge is to get a leak-free plumbing system installed - get a bottle of leak detector (in the plumbing section at the Big Box) and use it to check every joint. Leaks will make your system run more frequently, put more condensation in your tank and generally aggravate you when the compressor kicks on for now good reason.

If you haven't already, look into a floor mounting kit with vibration isolation pads that will keep the compressor from walking away when it runs and keep the noise level down a bit. I use a cheap Campbell-Hausfeld vibration isolation kit from the local Tractor Supply store and some 3/8" concrete wedge anchors from the Big Box.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Keith, sorry if I scared you ($$$). I just looked at specs of your IR SS3L3. (Gotta get new readers - thought it said S53, so was thinking large shop / industrial setting). Forget the refrigerated units, put desiccant on the spray finish system only. Good piping design, FRLs, and regular maintenance schedule will handle 99% of the rest.

All the compressors I used were IR and ran 24/7 - great units. Assuming their quality is unchanged - you got a battle wagon. Enjoy.

[Keith Downing]

Thanks guys, so much to process.

So it sounds like the starting point would be to put an air dryer system between the tank and the distribution line. What would you guys recommend that isn't going to break the bank?

Also, it seems like everything I see is going to be 1/4 or 1/2". But the extension hose I ordered and the maxline connections will be 3/4". Am I just not looking hard enough or is the drying going to be a roadblock in the system no matter what?

[Charles P. Wright]

Keith, the maxline blocks have a connection for the incoming tubing then 3 1/2" NPT connections (front, back, bottom). The valve that it comes with for for the bottom has a 3/8" NPT female connection. They also include a 1/2" NPT plug.

[Jim Becker]

I have the auto drain for my IR compressor and I really like it. It was worth whatever I paid for it, IMHO. But you can certainly use some small black pipe piece to construct an easy to access manual drain system off the bottom of the tank, too. I had that originally and reused most of it when I scored the auto-drain at an attractive cost. (I don't remember what that cost was at this point)

As to plumbing in, before you start, consider carefully where you'll "need" outlets as absolute musts and also where having them would elevate convenience. It's easier to do it all up front than add on later, although I'm not saying that adding on is "hard". Your system should have a slight slope back to where you can relieve moisture build up. That might be for the entire system or sections...every shop is different. You'll want a "soft connection" to the compressor itself to reduce noise and vibration to your distribution system. I did that with a short piece of flex hose. If you are going to be using your system with an HPLV conversion gun for spraying finish, it's convenient to put in a dedicated drop with a secondary regulator on it to reduce feed pressure to the gun to the manufacturer's specifications. I have a water filter on that dedicated drop, too.

My air system is copper, but if I were doing it today, I'd absolutely consider the new, easy to install systems that are available, especially with the elevated cost of copper.

[Ronald Blue]

I would suggest starting with just the main plumbing with the vertical drops below the outlets initially along with the ADV. Going from a little portable to the big stationary I think you should see what you have before laying out more on a dryer system you might not need. Having the ability to clear the vertical lines is important and you want that either way. It gives you a good idea how well the system is working. Just my .02 worth.

[Keith Downing]

That's probably good advice Ronald, although I would like to get the basic setup done and feel good about running for awhile.

Another question, I've seen a lot of plans for how to layout a system with the T traps at each outlet. However, am I wrong in assuming that the maxline system has the drain plug built into the bottom of each air outlet? (see attached picture).

If so it would seem really redundant to add another T and valve just before each outlet. Right? I was thinking maybe it was designed this was as the condensation would occur more around the metal outlets than in the synthetic pipe or plastic connectors.

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[Don Sundberg]

Keith, the maxline blocks have a connection for the incoming tubing then 3 1/2" NPT connections (front, back, bottom). The valve that it comes with for for the bottom has a 3/8" NPT female connection. They also include a 1/2" NPT plug.

Do not plumb into the bottom shutoff but leave the shutoff valve there. I would actually put an extension on it and then use that volume as a drain cavity. As the air flows through the lines to your air block it cools and water starts to come out of suspension. If you plumb your FR(L) into the side ports the air will make a sharp corner and the water will tend to go straight down (due to being denser) and get slung into this cavity. Then all you have to do is crack them open from time to time. You'll be surprised how much water you catch.

Check out TP tools for some design ideas. They sell blast cabinets and lots of other stuff but they do have some illustrations of a proper iron pipe distribution system. Some of the same principals are applicable to copper or Maxline installs.

[Keith Downing]

Do not plumb into the bottom shutoff but leave the shutoff valve there. I would actually put an extension on it and then use that volume as a drain cavity. As the air flows through the lines to your air block it cools and water starts to come out of suspension. If you plumb your FR(L) into the side ports the air will make a sharp corner and the water will tend to go straight down (due to being denser) and get slung into this cavity. Then all you have to do is crack them open from time to time. You'll be surprised how much water you catch.

Check out TP tools for some design ideas. They sell blast cabinets and lots of other stuff but they do have some illustrations of a proper iron pipe distribution system. Some of the same principals are applicable to copper or Maxline installs.

Think you answered my question as I was asking it. But when you say plumb the FR(L) into the side ports, which are you referring to? Sorry if that's a dumb question.

[Don Sundberg]

Think you answered my question as I was asking it. But when you say plumb the FR(L) into the side ports, which are you referring to? Sorry if that's a dumb question.
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It looks like the 3/4" blocks just have one on the front, so tap into it with your FR(L) and I would add some pipe to the bottom port above the drain valve for capacity.

[John K Jordan]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it here but air directly from the compressor is hot and can contain water vapor. Water separators work best if the air is allowed to cool first so the water can condense out of the air before it hits the separator. This can be done by putting the separator some distance from the compressor, say 25 ft or so. (This is the recommendation that came with the water separator I installed.)

From the compressor I run a long line (a bog loop) to a "T" trap, a water separator, a large desiccant cartridge dryer, a regulator, then to a manifold with distribution cutoff valves to three lines supplying seven outlets in the shop (and one outside), each exactly as you show in your photo. I have never had water in any of the drain valves since the air in the lines is quite dry.


BTW, I don't like the type of quick connect shown in the photo which needs two hands to operate. There is another type (available in the big box stores) that can be connected with just one hand. It looks almost the same but you can recognize it by a small gap (1/8" or so?) between the sliding sleeve and the flange on the end. MUCH easier to use! Even better is the grey Milton with the release button on the side but those are expensive.


JKJ

[Mike Heidrick]

John can we see a pic of your 3 zone manifold what do you recommend as a source for that? I too wil run maxline 3/4. I am doing some ceiling retractable hose setups too.

[Jerome Stanek]

I just installed a new compressor as motor caught fire on my old 5hp 2 stage 60 gallon unit. I use 1/2 as that is the size that came on my old unit and that is what the outlet is on my new one. I don't need a bigger pipe as most of my hoses are 3/8 anyhow. I did get a auto drain from Harbor Freight that seems to work as it should and was under $10.00 and in stock.

[Tom M King]

Refrigerated driers might be out of budget, but they now cost the same number, or fewer, dollars compared to thirty years ago, and dollars are worth a lot less now. Filters stop filtering, and trap loops only work so good. If the refrigerated dryers sold today are built half as good as they were thirty years ago, it will be a one time purchase. That and a cheap conversion gun will get you as good, or better, a system than spending close to two grand on a top quality HVLP setup. Spend a few hundred more on a good gun, and you will have the best system there is.

[Harry Holzke]

I came up with a good solution for drying the air. After reviewing the drawings on TP Tools, I made a switchback manifold that is about 25' long and has a drain before it hits the trap. I can run my blast cabinet for hours and never get any water in the traps. Easy to move the whole contraption if necessary.

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[Keith Downing]

I came up with a good solution for drying the air. After reviewing the drawings on TP Tools, I made a switchback manifold that is about 25' long and has a drain before it hits the trap. I can run my blast cabinet for hours and never get any water in the traps. Easy to move the whole contraption if necessary.

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I like that design. But will it be effective with the maxline, which is basically insulated aluminum?

My assumption, whether correct or not, was that very little heat would dissipate even in long runs with the insulation on the pipe. I also assumed that was why there was no discussion of needing 25' of pipe out of the compressor before your first outlet, and also why the drains come out of the bottom of outlets with the maxline setup as opposed to running T's on all the designs I've seen.

Can anyone confirm or deny this assumption?

[Keith Downing]

For anyone who doesn't know, this is how maxline is actually made. Thus my question on the heat dissipation

333618.

[John K Jordan]

John can we see a pic of your 3 zone manifold what do you recommend as a source for that?


I just built up a manifold with brass fittings. I thought about using the aluminum RapidAir manifold but I liked this method better for several reasons.

This picture is from an angle since the controls are in a hallway and I can't get a straight-on shot:

333619

The 5-hp 60 gal IR compressor is in a sound-insulated closet behind the wall and the air comes through to the left. I used a brass nipple to collect any condensate, then a water separator feeds a desiccant dryer, then a regulator feeds three valves. I plumbed in zones so I could cut one off in case of a problem. I plumbed the shop with 1/2" RapidAir tubing and outlets and it works fine, even when feeding a hungry impact wrench for vehicle work.

The switch to the left is a heavy-duty disconnect rated for a 5-hp motor. I made the controls accessible from the main shop because I figured if I had to go into the closet to attend to things I would be more likely to neglect things.

The air is dry enough to feed the plasma torch in my little weld shop.

I did buy an automatic drain on a timer which I will install when I get a Round Tuit.

JKJ

[Keith Downing]

Another question no one really seems to have addressed that I had in one of my replies:

If the first thing I'm doing is going to a filter/regulator/dryer that has 1/2" npt connections, did I just defeat the entire purpose of using the 3/4" tubing? I have a hard time seeing how that would not be the case. Kind of wondering now if I should not have just gone with the 1/2" kit and saved the money.

[Harry Holzke]

My thought was to use something like the set up I made with pipe and then connect the Maxline to that. I would use black pipe though, the galvanized pipe I had laying around.

[John K Jordan]

I like that design. But will it be effective with the maxline, which is basically insulated aluminum? My assumption, whether correct or not, was that very little heat would dissipate even in long runs with the insulation on the pipe. I also assumed that was why there was no discussion of needing 25' of pipe out of the compressor before your first outlet, and also why the drains come out of the bottom of outlets with the maxline setup as opposed to running T's on all the designs I've seen. Can anyone confirm or deny this assumption?

Is a thin cladding of solid HDPE that good of an insulator? Maybe look it up or run some warm water through a piece and see if it feels warm on the outside.

I think the length I mentioned came from the installation instructions for my desiccant dryer. From other reading, some recommend a large diameter vertical pipe out of the compressor which can drain straight down into a trap, then a down-sloping line "as long as possible" before the dryers and regulator. When the air enters the large pipe the pressure drops suddenly and some of the water can condense on the inside and since that pipe is vertical the water can run down into the trap. The end of the sloping line has another vertical section going down with a trap at the bottom and the air outlet somewhere above the trap.

One guy recommends:
1. To use black gas pipe which has a higher ID than galv water pipe
2. Use 2" pipe for the riser, and make the main line as long as possible before the first filter/regulator

I found this picture of a professional installation:
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This article on "Air Compressor Piping Diagrams and Tips" says at least 25' but 50' is better.
http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5
This has a air line diameter chart and indicates a too small line will decrease the air pressure some. For a commercial garage this could be a problem. In my shop I use 1/2" line and I'm satisfied. A 1/2" restriction in a 3/4" system might reduce the volume of air some which might be make things like sandblasting less efficient. This can be fixed to some extent by putting an aux tank (just the tank) near the high volume drop.

JKJ

[Keith Downing]

Found this buried on the Maxline website. Looks like they recommend 20' before the filter, but then in the diagram they contradict that and add a note that says: For small shops this isn't practical and the filter will have to be mounted closer.

Another interesting thing they added I hadn't thought of. They say making a loop or halo with the pipe will avoid pressure drop. I'm not going to be using multiple tools at once, so it doesn't really affect me. But thought some might like to know that.

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[Mike Cutler]

Another question no one really seems to have addressed that I had in one of my replies:

If the first thing I'm doing is going to a filter/regulator/dryer that has 1/2" npt connections, did I just defeat the entire purpose of using the 3/4" tubing? I have a hard time seeing how that would not be the case. Kind of wondering now if I should not have just gone with the 1/2" kit and saved the money.

Keith
No worries, you didn't waste your $$$$. Virtually every tool you plug into your system will have a final orifice restriction of ~ 1/4" or less. The initial restriction you're concerned with will be more than capable of keeping up with end point demand.
Flow (CV) in any system is equal to the square root of the differential pressure drop (D/P) across any orifice, (which is why 90 degree elbows count as such a huge penalty in air flow systems because the appear to the system as an orifice restriction.) Factor into the equation the Reynold's effect of wall friction, and piping cross section. (The larger the piping, the lower the friction numbers for a given volume at a static flow rate.)
You will have an initial D/P across your filtration system, and possibly at any downstream drop ports, but the flow rates will still exceed the flow requirements of the end device. If nothing else, look at the larger diameter tubing as reserve volume.
You want that larger diameter tubing. I promise. ;)

[Keith Downing]

Keith
No worries, you didn't waste your $$$$. Virtually every tool you plug into your system will have a final orifice restriction of ~ 1/4" or less. The initial restriction you're concerned with will be more than capable of keeping up with end point demand.
Flow (CV) in any system is equal to the square root of the differential pressure drop (D/P) across any orifice, (which is why 90 degree elbows count as such a huge penalty in air flow systems because the appear to the system as an orifice restriction.) Factor into the equation the Reynold's effect of wall friction, and piping cross section. (The larger the piping, the lower the friction numbers for a given volume at a static flow rate.)
You will have an initial D/P across your filtration system, and possibly at any downstream drop ports, but the flow rates will still exceed the flow requirements of the end device. If nothing else, look at the larger diameter tubing as reserve volume.
You want that larger diameter tubing. I promise. ;)

That's a really good point Mike. I hadn't thought about how small and restrictive the L and T's probably are on the 1/2" system. So it probably is worth the extra couple bucks to go with the 3/4".

I'll be starting the install tomorrow and will be doing something similar to Harry's switchback to start to see if it helps with the heat dissipation. Then going to the filter, then T-ing off to the outlets on both sides of the room.

I don't have enough pipe coming for the full loop, but maybe I'll add it in the future if I ever get to a point at which multiple tools might all be running at once.

[John K Jordan]

Another interesting thing they added I hadn't thought of. They say making a loop or halo with the pipe will avoid pressure drop. I'm not going to be using multiple tools at once, so it doesn't really affect me. But thought some might like to know that.


I have heard that before. I suspect it would help some with the flow and pressure even if you only used one tool at a time. Consider a tool the furthest distance from the compressor - it would have two lines going to it, effectively doubling the cross section of the piping.

Something I discovered years ago - using more hose/piping effectively increases the size of the compressor tank. When building a horse shelter about 500 ft from power I ran 100 ft of power cord to a small pancake compressor and 400 ft of air hose. Our nail guns had a lot more air AND this eliminated the voltage drop from a very long power cord (which can cause real problems with an electrical motor).

JKJ