Epoxy or ??? to secure a handle on a MF 980

[Robert Hartmann]

I'm working on a MF 980 and have an issue with the handle. When I removed the handle the threads had been completely striped (on the handle) and the threaded shaft had been wrapped with tape to fill the gap. So now I have a handle with a pretty big gap to fill.

I think I have two options:
1 - Epoxy. I've never used epoxy, but assume I could fill it with that and put the handle back on. It would probably be permanent at that point, but I guess that's ok.
2 - Plug. My other option is to make a plug and glue it in and then drill it out to the right size. Making and fitting a plug is not an issue, but I'll have to free-hand drilling it out. Would the handle screw on to the threaded shaft (self-tap)?

I don't have a lathe and don't plan to buy one until I return to the states (I'm stationed in the Netherlands). This brings up the other issue of getting an epoxy. I've already had difficulties getting some things here. I'll probably have to get it locally, which means I'll have no real clue what I'm getting. If only my Dutch or German was better...

I seem to be doing more tool restoration these days than woodworking, but then my shop is in the cellar of the Dutch home we're renting. 64-72% year round humidity...ugh!

[Jim Koepke]

1 - Epoxy. I've never used epoxy, but assume I could fill it with that and put the handle back on. It would probably be permanent at that point, but I guess that's ok.
2 - Plug. My other option is to make a plug and glue it in and then drill it out to the right size. Making and fitting a plug is not an issue, but I'll have to free-hand drilling it out. Would the handle screw on to the threaded shaft (self-tap)?

The handles on my Millers Falls hand drill are also loose. They are not as bad as yours. I am not sure if you could make an epoxy threaded insert to eliminate the permanency aspect.

It is very doubtful the screw on shaft with self tap. The iron frame was made to accept a threaded handle, not to make threaded handles.

Maybe you will get lucky and find another one for parts.

jtk

[Malcolm McLeod]

Take a look at 'heli-coil' insert kit. No idea if they're available locally (or other competing products), but they are designed for stripped thread repair.

Typically, you cut the female thread bigger with supplied tap and screw in a hardened spiral insert. The ID of the hole now matches the original thread spec.

Not sure if this applies to configuration you describe - - you might have to cut the (stripped) male thread smaller, and use heli-coil to 'shrink' the female....?

[Ray Selinger]

When faced with stripped threads on a #3 plane handle, they had been drilled and retapped , I used JB Weld, the overnight cure version. JB Weld is steel filled epoxy and very easy to use and find. For the rod I coated the threads with paste wax.

[Cody Cantrell]

Paste Wax the threaded portionand and any other metal portions the the epoxy may come into contact with and it should create an epoxy thread attatched to the wood and should be free from the metal.

[Tyler Arsenault]

Fill with JB weld and tap is probably what I'd do.

You could drill through the whole thing and clamp it with a nut/bolt of the same thread of the shaft. Leave a bit of space on the nut or get one of those long joining nuts. Thread it on the original shaft and bottom it out. Red loctite the whole thing. Just an idea. Nail polish works in a pinch.

If you can't track down the chemicals that mechanical method might work.

[Robert Hartmann]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like plugging it will not work since I can't tap it (I gave my dad a 100+ piece tap set when I stopped restoring cars, I'm missing them now). Amazon will ship the JB Weld to me, so I'm going to try it with some paste wax as suggested. If it can be removed fine, and if not that's ok. I'll post back in a few weeks with the results.

[Ray Selinger]

Sorry,I didn't notice you were in the Netherlands. We had a local epoxy formulator, if you read Wooden boat, one their products was Cold Cure. They all buy the epoxies from the big chemical companies. He also put out papers on use, which is where I get this from. When using epoxy as screw threads into wood, epoxy needs a filler. While it doesn't need pressure it does needs a good fit. But with filler it becomes a gap filling structural . I would use one measure G2, an aircraft grade epoxy, 2 measures mini fibers and one measure Carb-o-sil. The carb-o-sil will add hardness as well as fill. It's also a stiffener.

[Robert Hartmann]

I would use one measure G2, an aircraft grade epoxy, 2 measures mini fibers and one measure Carb-o-sil. The carb-o-sil will add hardness as well as fill. It's also a stiffener.

Thanks for the info. I looked up cabosil and read a bit on the woordenboat forum. It seems the cabofil is used more because it adds virtually no weight. It sounds like it's not something I want to breath. Since I'm not worried about weight I can use alternative, but do I really need a filler? I would assume the epoxy would harden enough. If it hardens enough to be able to tap, then it should be good by itself in my opinion.

Is G1 or G2 better than JB Weld? In general, is there much difference between epoxy products?

[Kees Heiden]

In Dutch shops it is sold as "twee componenten lijm". Maybe that is helpfull. The usuall double syringe packages are not so expensive, the brand Bison is available "everywhere".

[Robert Hartmann]

In Dutch shops it is sold as "twee componenten lijm". Maybe that is helpfull. The usuall double syringe packages are not so expensive, the brand Bison is available "everywhere".

I've seen Bison at Gamma and Hubo, but was unsure of the quality compared to other brands. I'm not sure if one is better than another.

Are you by chance near me (Brunssum)? I've had a hard time finding a source for lumber. I've found two places, the best one is in Schin op Geul, but it's a bit of a drive.

[Kees Heiden]

No sorry I am at the other end of the country near Leiden. When you post at woodworking.nl, then I am sure there will be help nearby. You can post in English, most people understand that well enough.

I'm not very knowledgable about epoxy. Bison seems good enough for me. It allready contains fillers I think, because straight epoxy is very runny stuff, and this isn't.

[Jim Koepke]

I would assume the epoxy would harden enough. If it hardens enough to be able to tap, then it should be good by itself in my opinion.

If you have the correct tap, that would change the equation.

Do you have the correct tap?

jtk

[Ray Selinger]

I would not think epoxy resin on it's own would be strong enough for threads. It's a glue. Even sawdust can work as a filler,but not my choice for threads. Epoxy formulations will vary their characteristics. The 5 minute cure stuff isn't even waterproof. It's also at the low end of strength,too. That was why I used the overnight cure version of JB Weld on the #3 plane.

[Robert Hartmann]

Do you have the correct tap?
jtk

Unfortunately no. I gave my tap and die set to my dad when I stopped doing car restorations. That would have been too easy. My plan is to fill the handle with epoxy and let it set. Then drill it out the size of the threads on the drill. Then put more epoxy in and insert the handle and put the pin in and let it harden. Since the handle has been hollowed out a bit larger than the drill (threads), I don't want to risk assembling it and having the handle off center or at an angle. Hopefully it works.

Kees, I was on woodworking.nl, which is where I was given the recommendation for the two lumber sources I have. I was told by someone that woodworking is not very popular in the Limburg area.

[Robert Hartmann]

I finally finished up the drill. I went with JB Weld (had to wait on Amazon to deliver it). I did a test with an old #1 shaft in a block of wood. I put paraffin wax on the threads and was able to unscrew it after it set. This would have been perfect, but I realized due to the mechanics of it all it would end up being a lot more work. I ended up making a new ferrule from a copper pipe fitting (the original was shot) and then filling the handle with enough epoxy until it oozed out from every crevice. I then put the pin back in through the ferrule and let it set. It is incredibly solid now. The JB Weld can be tapped, so it is pretty solid. Of course the handle will never come off voluntarily, but if it ever needs to come off it will be time for a new one anyway.

Attached are some pics. It was actually easier to disassemble than I expected. I stripped it all down and painted and polished everything inside and out. I think I'm getting pretty decent at these restores, but it's probably time to do some actual woodworking.

335366335367335368335369335370

[Jim Koepke]

Looks gorgeous Robert. I have two #2A Millers Falls drills. One of them is in pretty good condition. I do not use it much since it looks too nice to use. The other one is my beater eggbeater.

jtk