Now what is the best articulated system?

[Brian Kent]

Now that the owners of Monster Lathe Tools have gone on to other tasks in life, here is my follow-up question:

What are your recommendations now for best hollowing system?

My needs:
I will put it on my future Grizzly 0766.
Purchasing by the summer.
Something that does not extend far beyond the end of the lathe.
I do not need one of the specialized systems for 18" reach. My largest vessels are 11" reach on a pitcher 12" x 5". (I make these now in 2 parts using a hand-held John Jordan hollower).
I had planned on getting the Monster articulated system with the largest bar.
I was planning on spending $540. I do not want to spend much more than that, but I have some flexibility if needed.
My emphasis on all of my equipment is on smoothness and reliability.

Thank you for your good advice.

[John Keeton]

This thread is somewhat dated, but I doubt the field has changed much - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194517-HELP-in-choosing-a-hollowing-system

[Jeramie Johnson]

This thread is somewhat dated, but I doubt the field has changed much - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194517-HELP-in-choosing-a-hollowing-system


That thread lead me to here: http://www.tobinhillturning.com/tools/ now I want to know more! lol

[Brice Rogers]

Brian, thanks for starting this thread.

I am also considering a hollowing system and am interested in identifying the "best of class" from which I can base my own design. I intend to build my own. I picked up 10' of 1" x 1" hot roll (steel) bar yesterday for the articulated bar. My starting point is the "Capt. Eddie Castelin Snake hollowing system".

I have also seen the ads and video's from Harrison specialties and think that it looks nice and is reasonably priced. http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/simple-hollowing-system-with-or-without-laser-for-woodturning/

In the past I built a captive hollowing tool rest loosely based on the Carter system and found it useful for smaller vessels. It does not use an articulating arm and its low mass allows it to chatter a bit.

I will be eagerly following the responses to your post. I am hoping that there may be some responses from people who have actually built something. But it seems (IMHO) like serious wood turners seldom have much interest in welding and machining.

[Dale Bonertz]

It I was choosing today I would go with Trent Bosch system. In light of the Kobra being hard to get and monster out of business. Trent sells other tools also so he doesn't solely rely on just the hollowing system. He is pretty young as well so I don't think he is going anywhere any time soon. I admit I am biased he is in our club and I have worked with him on projects. Great system though.

[Russell Stanton]

I have the JT Turning Tools Gizmo system and now that I better understand it really like it. You can either get their Transformer" cutting bar system or you can put any 5/8" or 3/4" cutting bar into the articulated arm.

[Thom Sturgill]

JT Turning tools rig is a bit above your price, but it is without a doubt the best made system I have seen. Trent's system was described by him as a 'training' system not a production system when I saw him at a symposium.

I have not seen the Harrison Specialties system in person, but it appears to be much lighter than the JT Turning system. It has a 1/2" boring bar as opposed to the 5/8" or 3/4" of the Gizmo. As such I would suspect that its hollowing depth is more limited. The tools as advertised claim a 12" total length. Part of that length would be inside the receiver. I'm not sure what the length of the transformer bar is.

I have a Captive system (part Lyle Jameison, part home brew, part other manufacturers boring bars) that will do if hand held gets too difficult.

[Scott Hackler]

I have the Gizmo and is like a Monster on steroids, but it is a bit pricey. Trent's system is fairly reasonable on price and has a small advantage of easy of set up. Once the height collar is set for your banjo, you shouldn't have to adjust it again. It is also pretty beefy. One down side to it (small) is that it has a small platform that the "arm" glides across instead of a tool rest and so the metal to metal contact is slightly less "fluid" than a true articulated system like Monster of JT Tools' Gizmo. I don't think it is enough to worry about but thought I would mention it. Similar to a captured rig in some aspects.

I use Trent's boring bars in my Gizmo but had to have a reducer (or two) made to fit those 1/2 bars. I like a small opening and so use small diameter bars.

[John Beaver]

That thread lead me to here: http://www.tobinhillturning.com/tools/ now I want to know more! lol

I have the JT Turning Tools Gizmo and am quite pleased with it. Quite a bit stronger then the Monster. I particularly like the strength of his square bars.
The negative is you can't do a super small hole with them. But for deep reach they're very solid.

The one you mentioned by Alan Trout of Tobin Hill Turning is very impressive. The machining is excellent and it is smooth as a baby's behind. I think the price is pretty steep but you get what you pay for. I don't hollow enough to need that level of system, but if I did I would seriously consider it.

[Tom Brouillette]

I've got this one. I've been very pleased with the result. It's the only one I've ever owned or tried. Beefy and well built with a 3/4" bar.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008D5H88G?keywords=hollow%20fast&m=A2F8KAB7F15GZF&qid=1457560014&ref_=sr_1_3&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008D5H88G?keywords=hollow%20fast&m=A2F8KAB7F15GZF&qid=1457560014&ref_=sr_1_3&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3)

[Robert Willing]

Go with the Harrison system I have it and really like it. I went with the goose neck version and I would get the 9/16" straight tool as well.

[Glen Blanchard]

Another vote for JT Turning Tools 'Gizmo'. It's extremely stout and built to last. Customer service is great as well!

[Brian Kent]

I have sent an e-mail to find out about costs. What price range is the Gizmo?

[Thom Sturgill]

I have sent an e-mail to find out about costs. What price range is the Gizmo?



If I remember correctly, it was about $625 when I priced it at the GA symposium. That includes the TransFormer bar. Check with Tom Steyer. I think the price varies a little depending on the base.

[Tom Megow]

do most systems nowadays have the laser option?

[Tom Brouillette]

Mine came with a laser. Our club had a demo last month with a camera/monitor system for hollowing. I must say it was impressive.

[Brian Kent]

If I remember correctly, it was about $625 when I priced it at the GA symposium. That includes the TransFormer bar. Check with Tom Steyer. I think the price varies a little depending on the base.

$625-ish is fine. I knew if I listed a $750 limit, my friendly advisors would recommend $1,500 systems. :)

I see the "Transformer System" but I do not know which part is the "Transformer bar".

[Ray Bell]

Does anybody here use the Trent Bosch visualizer?

[Sparky Paessler]

Does anybody here use the Trent Bosch visualizer?

I use one I put together myself using a small video camera and a TV. Love it and would not go back to a Laser!

[Ray Bell]

Very nice setup, and thank you for the reply.

[Tom Giacomo]

333592 Home made version, cost $50, with laser $8 more. Works great.

[Dave Bunge]

I see the "Transformer System" but I do not know which part is the "Transformer bar".

Ron, the red circled part in picture below is the transformer bar. It can be used in the Gizmo articulated hollowing system. Other hollowing bars can be used in the Gizmo too.
333603

I have the Gizmo and like it a lot. I use it with John Jordan hollowing bars. I bought the transformer bar, but never got the hang of using it in the Gizmo.

[Russell Stanton]

The transformer cutter adjustment is the tricky part. As you change from cutting across the bottom to cutting the side you must adjust the twist of the carbide cutter to keep it from self feeding. The carbide cutter is like a Hunter cutter so it is a round disc edge. You need to keep the edge parallel to the surface being cut. It is difficult to explain in words on the forum. I went to a one week class at Campbell with Rudy Lopez and learned to visualize the cut and make the needed adjustment. Really like the Gizmo but prefer other cutter bars that are so particular about their adjustment. I have a shielded hook tool that works really well.

[Vince Welch]

Hold on a second folks... I understand Monster my not be finished just yet! I think they might have underestimated the response they receive concerning closing the business. I can't say for sure at this point but I hope they reopen!
Vince

[Brian Kent]

I had a very good correspondence and call with Tom at JT Tools about the Gizmo. It looks great, but the 3 parts total over $1,000 (Transformer, Gizmo, and Laser). So at this moment, I am planning two directions - to see if I can afford it, and keeping my eyes open to see if there are other options.

[Mark Greenbaum]

Can you send me a list of parts, or a drawing for your system? (PM me if you can). I would love to get back into hollowing on my new G0766, but costs are prohibitive. Thanks.

333592 Home made version, cost $50, with laser $8 more. Works great.

[Mike Goetzke]

333592 Home made version, cost $50, with laser $8 more. Works great.




Tim - are those hooks on the ends of your turning tools?

Thanks,

Mike

[Matt Schrum]

Can you send me a list of parts, or a drawing for your system? (PM me if you can). I would love to get back into hollowing on my new G0766, but costs are prohibitive. Thanks.

Tom, at this point you might as well start a new thread-- your rig has caught my attention too!

[Jeramie Johnson]

Tom, at this point you might as well start a new thread-- your rig has caught my attention too!

And many others.

[Roger Chandler]

Hold on a second folks... I understand Monster my not be finished just yet! I think they might have underestimated the response they receive concerning closing the business. I can't say for sure at this point but I hope they reopen!
VinceVince....I sure hope they reconsider opening. I had planned to purchase several cutters, scrapers and a captured system from them and another boring bar. I have the articulated system now, and with my bigger lathe, I could use a new post that fits inside the base to extend the reach on my 22" swing lathe.

I believe there are a lot of turners who would get a monster system if they felt the company would be able to continue support and parts.

[Rick Bailey]

Vince....I sure hope they reconsider opening. I had planned to purchase several cutters, scrapers and a captured system from them and another boring bar. I have the articulated system now, and with my bigger lathe, I could use a new post that fits inside the base to extend the reach on my 22" swing lathe.

I believe there are a lot of turners who would get a monster system if they felt the company would be able to continue support and parts.

Me too,

Seeing I just bought Allan Trouts two Monster systems from him,
I would like to be able to get a few more things from them myself.
I hope they reconsider.

[Jon Nuckles]

I have also been considering adding the captured system to my articulated. Hope they continue.

[Rick Bailey]

Just maybe.:cool:
Stay tuned.:)

[Brice Rogers]

333592 Home made version, cost $50, with laser $8 more. Works great.

Nice set up, Tom. Is the arm square tubing or is it solid? Have you ever had any issue with the end going into the tail stock rattling loose? Is this based somewhat on the Eddie Castelin snake hollower ? I'm getting ready to start assembling a Capt. Eddie hollower and will be changing the base mount. I'm going to do something a bit more similar to Harrison Tool's base.

[Roger Chandler]

Steve posted in the other thread that Monster will be resuming business! Great news, indeed!

[tony tomlinson]

Hi Brian

I took delivery of the TMI Products articulated, post mount system 2 weeks ago and have been very pleased with the system. Built with some stout heavy steel components, a 3/4" hollowing bar, an excellent laser set up (no jiggle, no wiggle, no vibration) a HSS cutter and a carbide cutter included - all for $329.00 including shipping. I'm certainly not an authority but this system does a great job for me. They have sime excellent videos on line, and their customer service for my stupid questions was top rate

[Brian Kent]

It's not that I can't make up my mind. I make it up often. It's just that each time I make up my mind a different direction.

I would love to try out a couple of systems to see how comfortable and cumbersome they are. In the long run that is as important to me as hollowing depth and price.

Are there any wood turning shows coming up in the San Diego area?

[Alan Trout]

Brian,

If hollowing depth and price are your biggest concerns really your best option is a captive system. That will save you a bunch of money and frustration. I built my system out of frustration because none of the affordable articulated systems work well much past 6 to 8 inches on hard materials. Plastic, dry hardwood etc. is a challenge with a typical articulated system. You can do the same thing with a Monster or Jamieson captive system but there is a bit more work in the setup. Its just not as slick to use. If you want a articulated/multi axis system to go deep you are easily looking at spending more than 1K. You can go with bigger bars but at some point the limiting factor in a arm type articulated system is the hinge points in the arm. That will start flexing and the bar size becomes a non issue. There is just no getting around that without expensive bearings and or fabrication. The way that I would hollow before I built my system was, I would use the articulated system for the top and the shoulder of the vessel and then use the captive system for the depth because of the rigidity.

Good luck with you search I hope you find something that works for you.

Alan

[Brice Rogers]

Brian, I understand where you are coming from - - you are ready to pay a fair price for what you want but you want to get the best that you can afford within your budget; and you don't want to buy something (a discretionary expense) with which you won't be satisfied. I've been in this same train of thought several times.

But consider the "Harry Truman" 51-49 logic: if there are two choices that roughly equal but one - - perhaps - - is slightly better, it really doesn't matter which one you choose as they are both basically the same. Both are reasonable decisions with good merits.

Me? I'm a fabricator. I'm starting to build a Captain Eddie Castelin snake hollower (google it). But I'm one of those individuals who is as comfortable working with metal as I am with wood.

Also, I keep in mind that when I watched the well-known Mike Jackoffsky hollowing demo (he is really quite an artist !! ), he showed how to successfully hollow without any apparatus. So, if I add a hollower, I'll probably do at least okay.

Good luck on your decision. Let us know what you decide and why.

[Brian Kent]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your encouragement and perspective.
I really do this with every bigger purchase, thinking through things dozens of times from different angles. Then I make a decision for the best overall balance of needs and I'm happy with it.

Mike Jackovsky actually lives less than 10 miles from my house. I was sorry to miss his recent workshop at our San Diego Woodturners Club.

[Rick Bailey]

Here's one Brian,
Look at the top of the page.:D
Turning forum announcements.
Not SD but you can fly to Santa Rosa from SD .:)

[John Sincerbeaux]

My hollowing rig evolved from hand-held to a TB Stabilizer to a "Hybrid" system. Like Alan Trout says... an articulated system starts flexing when they get loaded up. I bought the TB stabilizer because it is so stout. But it was really never designed as a stand-alone rig. That is why it is called a stabilizer. It is a perfect fit for my VB 36 because it incorporates a toolrest and mounts to the VB's "beam".
However I wanted a rock solid rig that could handle large HF's so I designed a "captive" system that could be mounted on the VB's tailstock support post. I had a machinist make the components and the double 1" boring bar all in SS. I still use the Stabilizer but combined with the captive trap. I call it my "Hybrid" rig.
I also upgraded from a laser to the TB "Visualizer".
I regularly hollow 24" logs......effortlessly. 334062

[David Delo]

That's a very nice set-up you've got there John. Can see why you like it.

[Mark Levitski]

The Gizmo is very very good. One does not need the tooling if you already have hollowing tools that are hand held. It accepts any tool just like any handle with grub screws (set screws) on the market. The laser is a nice addition, but needs occasional adjustment, as is well known, as tool presentation changes with the curvature.

I recommend Gizmo for sure. Has resale value ( for a reason) in the very least. Wanna buy mine? Sorry, I like it to much.

Mark
heartwoodcreations.net

[Russell Stanton]

My sentiments exactly. I have the Gizmo and love it now that I fully understand it, thanks to a class at John Campbell school with Rudy Lopez., I used it with the transformer and also with a conventional hollowing cutter bar that was 3/4" dia and had a scraper cutter mounted in the tip