Workbench Advice

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Hello all!

I had a friend give me some lumber, and I need to make a workbench. I'm partial to a Roubo, but I'm not 100% sold on that style. What I got is 2 boards, both slightly over 10 feet long. 15 - 17 inches wide. One is 16/4 and the other is 12/4. I'd love the idea of using the big slabs and not having to laminate a bunch of stock. I'm not sure that this stuff would be thick enough once it's been dimensioned (is this the right term?). The wood is Ash, that has been air dried since 2000. We are in North Louisiana, and there isn't enough Ash around for the Ash borer beetles to be an issue. This is what I was told.

I have access to three more slabs that are roughly the same size in the 12/4. There is also some 8/4 stuff that is roughly 4' long that I could use for legs.

I was going to use some black locust, but decided to go with the ash. If I go Roubo, I may make the leg vise chop out of black locust. That stuff has got to weigh twice what the Ash does.

Anyone have any thoughts, or suggestions? I'm a complete newbie, and could use some advice. My friend also gave me some spalted sycamore. He's a pretty good friend :).

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[Robert Hazelwood]

How bowed/twisted/cupped are these slabs? You'll need to estimate what the yield would be in thickness. If you use the 12/4 I'm guessing a best case finished width of 2-5/8 or so. That would be functional but on the thin side for a Roubo bench. I think it would work fine unless you want a really long bench, but most people go for a thicker top, closer to 4". Too bad you don't have another 16/4 slab, that would be perfect!

Alternatively, I think you have plenty of material to do a laminated top of any thickness you want. You'll need a way to rip the slabs into strips of the appropriate width (the width of the strips will be the thickness of your benchtop). A good circular saw would probably work. And you'll need a way to joint the surfaces of the strips for glue-ing them up face-to-face. Hand planes will work. Lunchbox planer would be handy.

[Kees Heiden]

Or use the 16/4 for the front and add a piece of 12/4 to the back. It doesn't have to be same thickness. You just need to make the rear legs a little longer.

[john zulu]

You did mention that you are newbie.... I will keep the wood until I am more comfortable with this project. It is a big undertaking. Wood of such dimension are hard to come by.

[ken hatch]

I know a Roubo bench is in fashion today but your slabs are perfect for making an English style bench. The English bench can be easier to make and I prefer working on it to the Roubo.

[Robert Engel]

I'm in the middle of a workbench build myself, and not to discourage you, but for me it was a year long process.

The toughest was deciding what kind of bench to build. I settled on the Scandinavian style with a shoulder vise.

I strongly recommend one of the workbench books either Landis or Schwarz.

I also would snatch up the rest of that lumber ASAP and get it into your shop and sticker it and forget about for a month or so.

Take it slow with the milling and re-sticker each time and let set for at least 2 weeks.

I can tell you from experience that even as you start building the bench, you can expect some movement, even with timbers this big.
Flattening the top is one of the most tedious time consuming parts (depending on how flat you want it). You'll need winding sticks, a long straight edge and a 7 or 8 jointer plane -- unless you have access to some big machinery.

I suggest you decide on your vises and get all the hardware before you start building.

The Roubo is one of the simplest designs. Anything with a tail vise or the Scandinavian type bench are more complicated.
Lots of people like the wagon vise in lieu of the tail vise.

[Denny Tudor]

I also was wondering what people thought about the nailed down plank top english bench featured on the Englishwood worker.

[Matt Evans]

That might be perfect for a roubo with a traditional tail vise. The varying thickness of the top would be pretty normal in that design.


Ash is a great wood, as is black locust. Id personally go with an ash top, black locust legs , chops and endcaps, as long as the material worked out to accommodate.

[Jim Koepke]

Tim,

Surely everyone here envies your problem. I know I do.

I have been using what was an inexpensive Sjoberg bench for about 10 years. Other than its light weight it has been a fine bench. It has given me insights toward a bench design that will work for me.

Everyone who builds a bench has to consider what will work best for their own needs, methods and projects.

As others have mentioned using the 12/4 at the back and the 16/4 at the front of the bench is an acceptable plan.

I like an apron on my bench. Nothing as deep as the apron on the typical English style bench, but something that would allow the use of a holdfast along the front. This works better for me than a deadman to support long boards for edge joining.

Many feel an apron gets in the way when clamping.

Different methods of work.

At one time a wagon vise seemed a good idea to me. For me it came down to how accustomed I have become to using my tail vise. My tail vise is nothing special, but it gives me more holding options than a wagon vise.

When all is said and done, if and when my bench ever gets made, it will not be confined in style or features to the various benches with world known names. It will be made with the wood available to me including features borrowed from all the others I have seen and will be something working with the way I do woodworking.

jtk

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

There is already so many good ideas on this thread. Thank you so much! The slabs are pretty much dead flat, no discernible twisting or bowing. I have a friend who is going to help me build the bench, I'll include a picture of his Roubo bench. He thinks I should just buy some SYP and build the bench with it. Down here it's hard to find Ash this length and thickness, and he says he wouldn't use it for a bench. His is the only workbench I've used and so that's why I'm preferential toward the Roubo, and benchcrafted vises. As a newbie, I wouldn't tackle this project without his help or use of his shop and tools. He may own the entire Veritas catalog.

I like benches that use a mix of dark/light woods. I love the idea of black locust for the legs and end cap, but don't want to abuse the friend that is giving me the free wood. So many decisions...

[Jim Koepke]

He thinks I should just buy some SYP and build the bench with it.

If SYP was available in my area I think it would be my choice.

It might be good to build your 'first' bench with the SYP and get a feel not only for the process, but what features you like or want to change.

The ash and locust could be saved for the second bench or other projects.

Does the person who gave you the wood do woodworking? If not, maybe see what they would like that you could build for them.

jtk

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Tim,

Different methods of work.

At one time a wagon vise seemed a good idea to me. For me it came down to how accustomed I have become to using my tail vise. My tail vise is nothing special, but it gives me more holding options than a wagon vise.

When all is said and done, if and when my bench ever gets made, it will not be confined in style or features to the various benches with world known names. It will be made with the wood available to me including features borrowed from all the others I have seen and will be something working with the way I do woodworking.

jtk

I really liked Kees idea. However, the frustrating part is that I am new, so I have no idea what my preferences are. I've only tinkered around on a Roubo, so it's all I know. I liked what Ken said about the English bench. I had intended to go that route, but then my friend offered to help me build the bench, and I am torn. So far the only vises I've ever used are the benchcrafted leg and wagon. It's hard for my feeble woodworking brain to imagine any better vises.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

If SYP was available in my area I think it would be my choice.

It might be good to build your 'first' bench with the SYP and get a feel not only for the process, but what features you like or want to change.

The ash and locust could be saved for the second bench or other projects.

Does the person who gave you the wood do woodworking? If not, maybe see what they would like that you could build for them.

jtk

No, he's a Veterinarian and a hobbyist sawyer. He's not a woodworker though, but he's a really awesome guy. I do intend to make him something one day.

[Mark Fisher]

I was in the same position and just finished a Morovian bench. It is great for what I wanted. I don't have a lot of miles on it yet, but I find the leg vise fantastic. I used a Veritas inset vise instead of a wagon or tail vise. It holds surprisingly well and was easy to install. If I had to do it again, I'd go with a more traditional wagon or tail vise. I still don't understand why people would want a bench top in hardwood. I want my bench to dent before my project. I learned a lot in making the bench and it isn't as pretty....but it is solid and functional. I think it is a great way to learn hand tool woodworking, but I wouldn't want to use expensive wood if this is a learning project. The three designs I looked at were the Morovian, Roubo and English. I think they would all work great for my purposes, but the Roubo is a beast that I could never move out of my basement if I ever need to move. The Morovian knocks down easily, the benchtop can be replaced if desired and fit my reasonably small space. The English would have been fine too, but I wanted vises. Anyway, have fun with whatever you decide and don't be in a hurry.

[Kenneth Fisher]

I'd suggest building something like Chris Schwarz's knockdown English workbench out of SYP or 2 by material. It's a good inexpensive, solid bench. I think it's a great generic starting bench to let you start working and to figure out what you'd like or not like in a bench.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I was in the same position and just finished a Morovian bench. It is great for what I wanted. I don't have a lot of miles on it yet, but I find the leg vise fantastic. I used a Veritas inset vise instead of a wagon or tail vise. It holds surprisingly well and was easy to install. If I had to do it again, I'd go with a more traditional wagon or tail vise. I still don't understand why people would want a bench top in hardwood. I want my bench to dent before my project. I learned a lot in making the bench and it isn't as pretty....but it is solid and functional. I think it is a great way to learn hand tool woodworking, but I wouldn't want to use expensive wood if this is a learning project. The three designs I looked at were the Morovian, Roubo and English. I think they would all work great for my purposes, but the Roubo is a beast that I could never move out of my basement if I ever need to move. The Morovian knocks down easily, the benchtop can be replaced if desired and fit my reasonably small space. The English would have been fine too, but I wanted vises. Anyway, have fun with whatever you decide and don't be in a hurry.

I looked hard at the Morovian. I actually want to make one for one of my guest bedrooms, so that I can do some hand tool stuff inside in the summer. My shop is the garage, and I don't think I'll be able to afford to get AC in it this year.

[Curt Putnam]

Have you considered a split top Roubo?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

The Moravian sure seems to fit your needs as well as your wood. It can easily break down during the hot summer or cool winter. I am personally not a fan of tills, which I call "clutter catchers," but if you like the style then it seems like a nice fit.

http://www.woodwrightschool.com/classes/boaqucfyfffn7fih7mh5ffizdgin9g

[Mark Fisher]

The Moravian sure seems to fit your needs as well as your wood. It can easily break down during the hot summer or cool winter. I am personally not a fan of tills, which I call "clutter catchers," but if you like the style then it seems like a nice fit.

http://www.woodwrightschool.com/classes/boaqucfyfffn7fih7mh5ffizdgin9g

There is absolutely no reason it couldn't be built with a larger top and no tool tray. I made mine with a larger benchtop and smaller tray. I don't have enough experience to know whether I like a tool tray or not, but with this design, I could easily convert it to a split top similar to the split Roubo. I know that I've chipped a chisel or two from dropping off the bench so I started with a tool tray.

[David Eisenhauer]

I have a concrete floor in my shop and dread sweeping tools off of the bench when I swing or shove something around. FOR ME, a 4" wide tool tray in the middle of the split top was the way to go. My trays hold marking knives, gauges, a 6" ruler, a small square and a couple-three chisels when I am working with chisels. My Wood Is Good mallet can stand up in one if required to keep it from rolling off the table also. Yes the trays catch lots of plane shavings when I am working with planes but it is easy to either grab a handful of shavings or dump an entire tray out on to the floor with the rest of the shavings for eventual sweep up.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

What I have chosen in lieu of a till is a shelf just below the worktop with a very small lip to prevent rolling tools from hittin the floor. I have a terra cotta tile floor and I share your fears of tool landing sharp-down. I also often woodwork barefoot, so I also dread tools hitting my foot sharp-down. The shelf goes end to end and front to back, so no matter where I am working I have a place to rest tools. I also have a cabinet with wood top right behind the bench where I lay out tools as I work. This is especially handy when carving or doing work where multiple tools come in to play often.

I have considered a very small till in the center of the bench, perhaps two feet by 6 inches, with a cover so you could still have a full top when wanted.

Not arguing the case for or against tills- just a personal preference. They do have virtues.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I also often woodwork barefoot.

Must be tough to put on shoes where you live. I'm not jealous at all 😀.

[Chris Hachet]

Or use the 16/4 for the front and add a piece of 12/4 to the back. It doesn't have to be same thickness. You just need to make the rear legs a little longer.

This is an excellent idea.

[Chris Hachet]

I really liked Kees idea. However, the frustrating part is that I am new, so I have no idea what my preferences are. I've only tinkered around on a Roubo, so it's all I know. I liked what Ken said about the English bench. I had intended to go that route, but then my friend offered to help me build the bench, and I am torn. So far the only vises I've ever used are the benchcrafted leg and wagon. It's hard for my feeble woodworking brain to imagine any better vises.

I have the Benchcrafted leg vise, it is wonderful. Takes a bit of finesse to install, but is not overly complicated. I love the criss cross for keeping the chop aligned. That being said, if you really are a newbie, build a quickie bench out of construction grade lumber first and use it for a year or so. You will know much more about wood working and also about what you want in a bench.

Would probably build several projects involving mortice and tenon joinery and get good at hand mortice and tenon work...you will cut most of your joinery by hand in lumber that big.

I also would follow the previous advice and take the milling slowly. I still am waiting for my bench top to settle down a bit before a final flattening, and I finished the bench top a year and a half ago.

[Chris Hachet]

There is already so many good ideas on this thread. Thank you so much! The slabs are pretty much dead flat, no discernible twisting or bowing. I have a friend who is going to help me build the bench, I'll include a picture of his Roubo bench. He thinks I should just buy some SYP and build the bench with it. Down here it's hard to find Ash this length and thickness, and he says he wouldn't use it for a bench. His is the only workbench I've used and so that's why I'm preferential toward the Roubo, and benchcrafted vises. As a newbie, I wouldn't tackle this project without his help or use of his shop and tools. He may own the entire Veritas catalog.

I like benches that use a mix of dark/light woods. I love the idea of black locust for the legs and end cap, but don't want to abuse the friend that is giving me the free wood. So many decisions...

SYP is much easier to work and has one more advantage I never thought of....it is quieter. My work shop is in my garage, and my sons bedroom is over the garage at my house. A hardwood bench seems to transmit more noise than an SYP bench when I use mortice chisels or do heavy chiseling.

[Wade Holloway]

Your have some great ideas here. You mentioned that you are new to wood working so I will say this i would not use your good Wood on a bench just yet, because what ever style bench you go with it will not be the bench you will want in a few years. Save that really good Wood for when you really know what you want and like and what works best for your style of woodworking. I would suggest get a copy of Chris Schwarz book on bench or a set of plans and build one out of SYP for now. He even has plans on how to build one for 250 dollars, it used to be 175 I think :) Either way it gets you started out there building stuff only then will you learn what you like and what works best for you, then make one of the really good wood you have.

[Brian Holcombe]

I think that you owe it to yourself to hang onto that wood for a few years until you find yourself at a level where you are comfortable utilizing that quality of material.

I used some good stuff early on that I now kick myself for using when I should have been using something inexpensive. Ash is not exotic, but big flat slabs in 12 and 16/4 thickness are worth hanging onto.

I think you should grab up the remaining slabs and ear mark it for a dining table or similar project. Those slabs have some nice character.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I think that you owe it to yourself to hang onto that wood for a few years until you find yourself at a level where you are comfortable utilizing that quality of material.

I used some good stuff early on that I now kick myself for using when I should have been using something inexpensive. Ash is not exotic, but big flat slabs in 12 and 16/4 thickness are worth hanging onto.

I think you should grab up the remaining slabs and ear mark it for a dining table or similar project. Those slabs have some nice character.

I think I will leave these slabs for a later date. I would never have attempted to do a roubo build with them on my own. With my friends help, I think it would turn out fine. However, since he and some others think SYP is the way to go...I'm inclined to go that route at this time. At this moment, I'm hoping my house doesn't flood. It's not looking very good here in NW Louisiana.

[Brian Holcombe]

Keep those boards up and out of harms way. Hope that you do alright! I helped my parents through flooding, it's not easy.

An SYP workbench can be a work of art as well, softwoods can spoil you with how enjoyable they can be to work with handtools (so long as you keep your blades very sharp).

[David Eisenhauer]

Hoping for nothing but the best outcome on the possible flooding for you Tim. I have been involved with lots of the aftermath of flooding for friends in S Louisiana and can only advise to not wait until the last minute to prepare and/or do not blow off the warnings. If you guess wrong, it is an effing mess and heartache. Oh yeah, another vote to hold on to the slabs and go with SYP.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I read a post somewhere that said the front of the bench takes the most damage. Some folks used SYP but with the first board being hard maple. I'm a sucker for light and dark wood being used together. I was planning on using black locust for the leg chop and the end cap. I hope these are the right terms. I am going to go Roubo. I do want to make sure I use something that will move well with the SYP if I'm going to laminate the first board with something different. Hope that I am making sense.

[Jim Koepke]

I read a post somewhere that said the front of the bench takes the most damage. Some folks used SYP but with the first board being hard maple. I'm a sucker for light and dark wood being used together. I was planning on using black locust for the leg chop and the end cap. I hope these are the right terms. I am going to go Roubo. I do want to make sure I use something that will move well with the SYP if I'm going to laminate the first board with something different. Hope that I am making sense.

You are making good sense. I do not know that what ever the front piece is will have to move the same as SYP. Wood usually moves with the grain and not over the length.

Most of the work gets done on the front of the bench. Things like mortise and dovetail chopping.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Most of the work is done on the front of the bench. If you are sawing or chiseling, or doing anything that might result in damage to the bench surface, you should think about using a bench hook. That way, the damage is to the bench hook (which can be quickly and easily replaced), as opposed to your bench top, which you are about to put a lot of time and effort into building, and which you would have to go to a lot of time and effort to repair.

[Jim Koepke]

Most of the work is done on the front of the bench. If you are sawing or chiseling, or doing anything that might result in damage to the bench surface, you should think about using a bench hook. That way, the damage is to the bench hook (which can be quickly and easily replaced), as opposed to your bench top, which you are about to put a lot of time and effort into building, and which you would have to go to a lot of time and effort to repair.

My bench hooks have saved the top of my bench from a lot of damage.

If you lift your saw handle a little, a bench hook can redirect the damage to the middle of the bench. DAMHIKT!

Damage to the bench top is one reason my planes are usually on their side on my bench. Same with chisels being on the bench bevel down.

Even with all that care, there are still plenty of nicks and scrapes.

jtk

[Lenore Epstein]

DAMHIKT!
jtk
We need an acronym dictionary for SMC! I've been active on dozens of forums over the years, but I've never had to research as many internet-isms as I have here. 😳

[Jim Koepke]

We need an acronym dictionary for SMC! I've been active on dozens of forums over the years, but I've never had to research as many internet-isms as I have here. 😳

DAMHIKT = Don't Ask Me How I Know This

There is a list as a Sticky at the top of the Off Topic Forum

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?17995-List-Of-Acronyms

It comes in handy.

jtk

[Lenore Epstein]

Nice! So far I've done well with Google, I'm just not used to feeling so ignorant about Internet jargon.

[Jim Koepke]

Nice! So far I've done well with Google, I'm just not used to feeling so ignorant about Internet jargon.

I do a quick shot of Googling or head scratching when one comes up that I haven't seen.

I do not have a cell phone anymore. When I did, I didn't do texting. It was weird when my son's family visited last December. They all had mobile devices. My son set us up with a Wi-Fi router and they would all have out their iPods, iPhones and iPads tapping away.

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

My bench hooks have saved the top of my bench from a lot of damage.

If you lift your saw handle a little, a bench hook can redirect the damage to the middle of the bench. DAMHIKT!

Damage to the bench top is one reason my planes are usually on their side on my bench. Same with chisels being on the bench bevel down.

Even with all that care, there are still plenty of nicks and scrapes.

jtk

I actually prefer the look of a well used bench...

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Hello Creekers!

Bench update: I had planned to use SYP and go with a split top Roubo, but then I saw some pictures and well...desire sometimes wins. Cherry and Soft Maple split top Roubo. It was going to be soft maple top, with cherry gap stop and end cap. Due to some supply issues, the bench dog row was changed to cherry, and the front laminate is hard maple. Still more work to go, but this is the benches current status:

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[Brian Holcombe]

Beautiful work Tim!

[Mike Holbrook]

Tim, can I borrow your friend and his shop to make my bench, please! Actually I am holding of due to a planed move. I have a small Hammer bench I bought. I have also been waiting for my bench wood to dry, a water pipe broke/was damaged in the ceiling of the room housing my wood. This thread has given me some good ideas. Still trying to decide whether to use my Adjust A Bench base for my main bench or use it for a work table. I like the Moravian bench design mentioned early in this thread, it reminds me of the 21st century workbench design I also like but may work better in a smaller shop.

[Luke Dupont]

Hey Tim,

I also second everyone else's advice to build your first bench out of SYP.

I've built several "junk" benches just to gain experience and figure out what I like. I'm about ready to build a good bench, now! But, I'm glad I made the cheap ones - I've learned a lot about what I do and don't need.

Your experience will probably be different, but I've found I don't need:

1) Height. I made my first benches far too low, and I still would prefer something just a bit taller than what I'm using now. I'm not a tall person - only 5'8", but doing small detail work on a low bench (wrist or knuckle height) was absolutely killing my back. Even planing on a 30" bench was killing my back. I've found 36" to be ideal for my height - it's still just short enough that I can comfortably plane, and high enough that I can do detail work without being in pain. I'd recommend making your bench on the higher side - you can always cut it down to size, but it's hard to go back and make it taller.

2) Much weight. I need some, of course, but honestly, I don't do a lot of super heavy work, and my benches, though very light, haven't exhibited much of a problem at all with movement or tipping despite only being in the 50-60lbs range, which is ludicrously light by many people's standards. Again, this is probably in part because I prefer to do somewhat smaller, more delicate work, though I still do bigger projects on occasion.


And I've found I do need:

1) A tool well. Haven't had one in any of my benches, and they've all had narrow tops. Nowhere to put one's tools makes for a perpetually cluttered benchtop in my case - worse yet, with things occasionally falling off!

2) A portable bench that can break down, fold up, or some combination of the two. I work in different places a lot. A huge, weighty, bulky bench that is permanently together and permanently stationary is not for me.


That's just an example of what I've learned; your experience, and your preferences will most likely be different.

What part of Louisiana are you in, btw? I'm in Hattiesburg, MS - may be relatively close.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Hey Luke. I am about 4 hours NW of you :). I've never been to Hattiesburg, but I should visit to show homage to the greatest football player of all time. SYP would have made a good bench probably, but it's too late now hehe.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I still need to choose and apply a finish. Other than that...finished!

[Allen Hunt]

Tim, Your bench looks fantastic. I like the look of the cast hardware, I went with the same, but I haven't started my bench yet. I hope mine comes out as nice as the one you've made.