Cabinet raw materials

[Tom Peterson]

There is a lot of information on the construction of cabinets on the forum, of which I am very grateful. I would like to know if there is a compelling reason to use maple plywood versus birch plywood for the carcass of a painted cabinet. The maple is about $3.75 more per sheet. In regards to the face frames on these painted cabinets, poplar is about $1.80, soft maple $1.95, hard maple $2.25 and birch $3.05. All prices per board foot, select and better grade. Any comments would be appreciated. Hoping these are life time cabinets, so I do not want to cut any corners.

I am following udo schmidt's book on cabinets, but I am going to use a shallow dado for location instead of biscuts and pocket screws for assembly with a little glue. Buying the doors, drawers and drawer fronts.

thanks in advance

[jack duren]

use the birch, doesnt matter. dont like the softness of poplar use the soft maple. for paint the options are endless.....jack

[Steve Clardy]

use the birch, doesnt matter. dont like the softness of poplar use the soft maple. for paint the options are endless.....jack

Ditto.

Steve:)

[John Gregory]

Even painted you will want a harder wood for the face frames for durability. Since they will be painted any hard, close grained wood would work. You might check with a local wood supplier and see what they recommend for a material that balances price and hardness.

[Donnie Raines]

Birch ply is just fine. Poplar is used everyday for projects that will be painted...soft maple will work every bit as well.....so I bascily said everything that was stated above..... :rolleyes:

[Vince Sandy]

Several years ago I built some cabinets/book cases in our living room. Since the units were to be painted I used birch plywood for the shelves, MDF for the raised panels and soft maple for stiles, rails, shelf nosing, etc. I chose soft maple because it is harder than poplar (we have two kids) and as you stated, only a little more per bd ft. Worked great and looks good.

Vince in NC

[Charlie Plesums]

It is worth asking your lumber distributor what they recommend. I accidentally mentioned recent orders for paint-grade cabinets, and my salesman recommended "paint grade maple." Never heard of that, but it is maple that is largely heartwood (brown rather than white) but otherwise select grade, and only $1.50/bf - cheaper than any other hardwood. I got some, and it is stable, clear, and works great... other than the largely brown color where everybody thinks maple is white. Some of it even had some interesting grain (but I had already resawn it as drawer sides)

[Bill Fields]

Been really disapointed with how SOFT poplar is--not sure how this got labled as a "hardwood" in the borgs. Maybe it did not--and I was just hoping for something cheaper than oak.BILL FIELDS

[Dennis Peacock]

Tom,

I'm in the middle of a cabinet project at this very moment. Stain, dye or paint, use birch plywood...especially since you are painting the cabinets. One thing I can say is....please don't use solid birch lumber. It has a bad tendency to twist and "wave" on you and finding a good straight piece will become time consuming. Instead, use Alder for your faceframes, door siles and rails. Alder is much more stable and will be a lot straighter than the solid birch stock. Alder will give you the hardness of hardwood but still closely match the grain and color of the birch plywood.

I make all my drawer boxes out of 1/2" thick Yellow Poplar and I've had poplar drawers in use for years now and not a single issue with yellow poplar. Soft Maple is also a very good choice for the faceframes, door stile/rails and drawer fronts. You really can't go wrong with Maple.

I bough Solid Birch lumber for this cabinet project and once machined, It warped and twisted on me to where I wasted about 35% of the material. I then went and bought some Alder and have been able to use nearly 100% of the Alder....minus the sawdust from machining of course.

Pocket screws and a little glue will make it go quicker for you and it will be nice when done.

On the plywood.....? If you specify "Domestic" your veneer faces will be thicker and give you more to work with. The "non-domestic" plywood has "very thin" face veneers and you will need to exercise "restraint" on sanding them much at all or you'll get wood grain bleed through as the veneer will become so thin rather quickly that you'll begin to see the core layer of the plywood under the veneer face. DAMHIKT!!!!!

Hope this helps some as I hope others learn from my mistakes. :rolleyes:

[John Gregory]

Been really disapointed with how SOFT poplar is--not sure how this got labled as a "hardwood" in the borgs. Maybe it did not--and I was just hoping for something cheaper than oak.BILL FIELDS

I think "by definition" hardwoods are from deciduous trees and softwood are from conifers( Pine and such) Within each general classifications, there are varying degrees of hardness or density. I think Charlie's suggestion of asking about paint grade maple is a good one. I am going to check and see if my supplier has it.

[Jim Becker]

John is correct. By definition...Balsa wood is a hardwood... ;)

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Interesting thread. I'm curious why no one has suggested the use of MDO Plywood? I've found mdo to be quite hard and therefore takes the dings well, and paints extremely well. I have several bookcases that I used mdo for and they have held up quite well. If you're going to paint, why fight any grain at all?

I agree with the use of maple for the face frame and drawer fronts.

Doug

[Jim Becker]

Douglas, some folks have reported that MDO, being intended as an outdoor/signmaking product, may "telegraph" the grain of the wood under the paper. That's often not an issue for utility cabinets, but could be undesirable for use under paint in a residential environment. (Maybe there are different grades, however...I don't know)

[Tom Peterson]

Also, I was not sure how well the pocket screws would hold to the MDO. We considered MDF for doors, but my wife is really looking for a classic new england'ish kitchen. (JimB. I showed her your pictures and she was impressed)

[Jim Becker]

I don't think you'd have problem with pocket screws in the MDO...it's plywood...any more than you would with any other plywood!

[Scott Parks]

You really can't go wrong with Maple.

I bough Solid Birch lumber for this cabinet project and once machined, It warped and twisted on me to where I wasted about 35% of the material. I then went and bought some Alder and have been able to use nearly 100% of the Alder....minus the sawdust from machining of course.


Dennis, I've had some of the same problems with Maple that you describe with the birch. Is there a maple species, ei: soft, red, etc, that is less prone to internal stresses? I had 20" 1x6 peice of maple that has been machined and finished a year ago. I ripped off a 2" strip of it the other day, and it twisted up like a pretzel....

Is Alder plentiful in your region? I love Alder. It was easy to get when I lived in the Pacific Northwest, but I'm having a heck of a time trying to locate it in Denver. Woodcraft has to order it in, rough cut, for about $2/bd/ft.

All aside, I would use Alder for painted cabinets. It stays quite stable. It also stains quite nicely...