This I would NOT like to make with handtools only

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

Take a look at this floor

333189
333190

[george wilson]

That begs the question WHO would want such a floor? To what purpose was it made? To evoke some misguided sense of crudeness and simplicity,when it is anything BUT crude and simple? And,it wasted a lot of wood,too.

It reminds me of those joke crooked stemmed wine glasses: When they look STRAIGHT,you've had enough.

Things like this floor are simply decadent. It is not honest woodworking.

[Prashun Patel]

Maybe so!
I'm embarrassed to say that I like the way it looks.

[george wilson]

You haven't had enough alcohol yet,Prashun!!:)

[Prashun Patel]

...or too much???

[Art Mann]

I would not want to manufacture any flooring with hand tools only.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'm embarrassed to say that I like the way it looks.

I actually like the look as well. I'd just buy it though.

[Karl Andersson]

That flooring is job security for the manufacturers/ installers: it would be fairly impossible to replace any damage unless you just installed a square patch. I can barely figure out how they did it with power tools, let alone hand tools, and how they establish each edge profile. And yes, having spent most of my life living in and repairing old wood-floored houses, I find the appearance pretty ugly. Maybe a misguided attempt to appear more "organic", although the lines have to be machine-made on at least one edge of each joint.

[Pat Barry]

That is really innovative. I think it looks astounding (in a good way of course). What exactly is "honest" woodworking anyway George? I think it is only decadent to someone who realizes the work involved to create such a thing and who thinks there is no value in it to the customer. The customer on the other hand sees uniqueness and beauty in the nonlinearity.

[Bruce Page]

I like it. There's nothing wrong with "different", especially when it is well done like this is.

[Zach Dillinger]

This is the kind of thing that exists only because power tools make it easier to produce. I will pass no judgment on its merits other than to say that it wouldn't be high on my list of things to install in my own home.

[Sean Hughto]

Seems impractical as those pronounced grooves would be impossible to keep clean.

[John Sanford]

It looks to be "faux rustic", and it doesn't look like it would actually be very difficult to do. The key is simply starting with natural edge lumber that's been debarked. Put half of the tongue and groove on the natural edge, then use that as your template for the other half. If a separate template is necessary to take care of any offset concerns, that could be cut at the same time as the first half of the joint is done. Time consuming? Sure. But it should be easy enough to do using a shaper or even router.

[James Baker SD]

It screams at me, "fake, fake, fake." Guess you can put me down in the don't like it group.

[Prashun Patel]

I guess I can see how it's decadent, but isn't any kind of solid wood flooring in rather decadent?

Hank Gilpin made an "Applewood Wallpiece" that is on his website that uses this 'nested' live edge concept. I'm not saying this is on that level of sublime artistry, but that that spooning board effect is inviting and warm to my eye. It's not so much the 'live-edgedness' of this floor, but the grace and movement of the curves. They just feel more mesmerizing over an expanse than does a bunch of straight lines. If they happen to resemble a live edge, then so be it. I think I'd dislike it MORE if it were truly live edge planks left barky and live-edgy for live edge's sake, with NO thought of thoughtful finishing or refinement to make it pleasing to the eye. So much live edge work is just a shovel full of plank shoved down the Etsy shopper's throat. This doesn't feel like that at all.

At the very least, it certainly does not offend me to the point of compelling me to disparage it as fake.

To that point, fake doesn't bother me as much as unfinished does. I don't even really mind laminate or vinyl flooring with 'pictures' of wood that repeat every 5 planks. If it's clean and well-executed, it doesn't offend my sense of what's proper.

[Brian Holcombe]

This really isn't rustic flooring, so I think it should be judged accordingly. Rustic flooring implies that it is conservative with material use, using what's on-hand. So a rustic floor would have random widths, favoring larger planks to make it less time consuming to install. This is going to consume more material that straight planks and more time to install.

Nakashima's conoid studio comes to mind as one direction that could be taken with informal flooring. His is not truly rustic, being finely finished, but very conservative with material.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/59/07/0e5907b704a374edbd0837821b87dc4c.jpg

I tend to agree, Prashun, with regard to live edge and where it stands commonly at current. The over-arching theme of live edge is a play on timber frame, it should combine rustic qualities with rigid architectural form.

[Brian Holcombe]

This is closer to truly rustic, and they have one section that is actually hewn (not faux-hewn).
https://wewastetime.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/waterfall_2006_screen_painting_for_shofuso_usa_12. jpg

[Lenore Epstein]

That begs the question WHO would want such a floor? To what purpose was it made? To evoke some misguided sense of crudeness and simplicity,when it is anything BUT crude and simple? And,it wasted a lot of wood,too.

It reminds me of those joke crooked stemmed wine glasses: When they look STRAIGHT,you've had enough.

Things like this floor are simply decadent. It is not honest woodworking.
I don't understand this moral opprobrium at all. The design is amazingly naturalistic; the eye is drawn across the surface in a pleasantly meandering path. It's whimsical, it's indulgent, it turns the visual rigidity of the usual wood floor on its head and inside out.

I'd love to live in a room with a floor like this!

[Patrick Walsh]

I like it.

And i tend to like more traditional furniture and reproduction type stuff.

I would love to get payed to mill that all up and instal it. Sure beats sistering rafter tails to accept trim because the idiot architect we use changes his mind on the trim detail at the eleventh hour. Either that or someoene screwed up and is burring it?

Either way i like the floor. Takes a very specific home or space to carry it though imop.

[Brian Ashton]

It would be quite easy to make. Overhead router with a few very basic paths programmed in to give the allusion natural randomness. The bed would need to have a number of predetermined stops to allow for joint overlap... You could do it by hand with tongue and groove spoke shaves but what would the point be?

Anyone that has even a basic eye for detail would spot the repeating pattern in a floor like that.

I don't mind it, but then again I've "aged" a few projects over the years and liked them also.

[Ron Bontz]

I would tend to agree with George on that floor. However, I am pretty sure I have seen a couple of those floors up close and personal, but only after hitting the floor in a some what inebriated state. Ah, those were to good ole days. Or maybe not. :)

[steven c newman]

Well, without the T&G stuff....it would just be another barn floor......seen a few around this parts. The first cuts from the sides of a log were used as floor boards in the barns around here. Usually, just an iron spike in the middle, at each joist. Allows all the dirt and other "things" to drop through a little bit better.

[Kees Heiden]

Hmmm, I don't think I would want this in my living room, but it sure doesn't look bad. I even kind of like it. Very modern type of look of course.

[Lenore Epstein]

I just realized why I like it so much. A long, long time ago, in another life, I spent several years seriously studying Zen, which involved spending an inhuman amount of time doing sitting meditation in the bright airy zendo, gazing down toward the light colored wood floor. So there's just something alluring about the fanciful one in the OP's photos.

[Jeff Bartley]

I can't say I love this floor, it's like trying to visit your next door neighbor by leaving your house and walking completely around the block. Not that I don't love a nice walk! But that response comes from knowing how it must have been made; the average person would only react to it's appearance. It's too much work to try to look 'faux'.

In Shepherdstown, WV there's a store called O'hurlys, at the back of the store they put up a timber framed addition recycled from an old barn. It's floor has 19' long boards whose wane edges were sawn off and which taper from one end to the other. By putting pairs of these tapering boards in place the overall floor is parallel but the effect is really cool. And it's pleasing to someone like me, and maybe some of you, by making good use of the entire tree. It's a really cool strore: they sell Treemont nails by the pound!

Another floor that I've only seen pictures of is in Wharton Eshericks house. It consists of scraps of every shape imaginable. The story that I remember reading was that he put down the floor over a period of time and literally just took a scrap board and scribed it into the puzzle. I don't know if it's tongue-and-grooved. Wharton Esherick was anything but traditional!

[Joe Tilson]

Not to change the subject all, but it's like low level lighting. Everyone likes them in a straight line or following a sidewalk. We have ours at random around our home and it looks pleasing, to us. I like this floor, but then I'm not everybody else. Most people like things in complete order and straight in line. This floor would really take skill to produce. Isn't skill what we are looking for? I really would like to take on a project like this, in order to improve my skills.

[george wilson]

Exactly,JEFF. IT IS PHONY. That is what I don't like about it.

Many years ago,when I worked at the museum,a group of us were sent to a special showing of various skills to be found in Williamsburg. Included was this guy from the furniture factory which made Colonial Williamsburg's reproduction furniture. He was the head DISTRESSER. He had his assemblage of chains nailed to blocks of wood,and various implements for scratching and denting surfaces of brand new furniture.

This guy was the most self satisfied and stuck up idiot I have ever seen. I can tell you,the ladies just loved him!! The only person they loved more was the head flower arranging guy from the Craft House!

Us ACTUAL craftsmen thought the scratch and dent man was ,well,I can't say it here!! Funny how someone who produced phony scratched and dented new furniture was found to be so exciting to his audience. I'll bet some of those women went home and tried beating up their own furniture! If my wife tried that(She never would even think about it,as she has better sense and a good art education),there would have been a whale of an argument!

This floor falls into that category. FAUX

To answer the above question about skill: No,it takes a template for the router to bear against,not personal skill.

A wandering sidewalk is in a different category. It isn't trying to match up to another sidewalk via contrived joinery.

[Pat Barry]

Exactly,JEFF. IT IS PHONY. That is what I don't like about it.
How is it phony? Is it because the wavy lines are implying something to you that is not true or that doesn't fit with your own design criteria. I really don't think it is any more phony than dovetail joints. Those are phony aren't they? I mean, you don't see nature produce dovetail joints. So for example is all of woodworking phony in that some man decided that was how he was going to manipulate the wood for his own means. No, I think you mean it is non-traditional. I do agree with that but I see it is innovation not phoniness.

[Alan Schwabacher]

If you discovered that these floorboards were machined in such a way that they allowed a more efficient use of lumber than does cutting them straight, would that change your appreciation of them?

[Brian Ashton]

Exactly,JEFF. IT IS PHONY. That is what I don't like about it.

Many years ago,when I worked at the museum,a group of us were sent to a special showing of various skills to be found in Williamsburg. Included was this guy from the furniture factory which made Colonial Williamsburg's reproduction furniture. He was the head DISTRESSER. He had his assemblage of chains nailed to blocks of wood,and various implements for scratching and denting surfaces of brand new furniture.

This guy was the most self satisfied and stuck up idiot I have ever seen. I can tell you,the ladies just loved him!! The only person they loved more was the head flower arranging guy from the Craft House!

Us ACTUAL craftsmen thought the scratch and dent man was ,well,I can't say it here!! Funny how someone who produced phony scratched and dented new furniture was found to be so exciting to his audience. I'll bet some of those women went home and tried beating up their own furniture! If my wife tried that(She never would even think about it,as she has better sense and a good art education),there would have been a whale of an argument!

This floor falls into that category. FAUX

To answer the above question about skill: No,it takes a template for the router to bear against,not personal skill.

A wandering sidewalk is in a different category. It isn't trying to match up to another sidewalk via contrived joinery.


Sorry you guys in your (pink) ivory towers can't see the "forest" for the trees. If someone asked me to produce and or lay a floor like that, the last thing I would do is brow beat or put them down for wanting it because I "knew" better. I'd be doing the smart thing and asking them, when they would like it by, what wood they preferred and what's their budget. But then again, 35 years at this stuff and not minding the faux look clearly indicates I don't know anything at all.

I can remember doing a job for an outfit where the houses they built started at about 2 million. One time a costumer wanted nothing more than 4x8 sheets of MDF laid with bull-nosed edges, then given a satin finish... It wasn't to my taste, but I'm certainly glad I didn't let that cloud my judgment, cause the premium I got paid for doing the job was.

Didn't you once say you've "aged" a few things over your many years as a woodworker? Have you ever done any graining on a project?

Your right about the wandering sidewalk not being phoney cause, unless it's following the random contours of the land, the point of one usually is to break up the straight lines and give a bit of character - sort of like making wavy floor boards.

[Brian Ashton]

How is it phony? Is it because the wavy lines are implying something to you that is not true or that doesn't fit with your own design criteria. I really don't think it is any more phony than dovetail joints. Those are phony aren't they? I mean, you don't see nature produce dovetail joints. So for example is all of woodworking phony in that some man decided that was how he was going to manipulate the wood for his own means. No, I think you mean it is non-traditional. I do agree with that but I see it is innovation not phoniness.


If you want to get into the Symantecs of the words phony and faux neither are even remotely appropriate in this case.

First phony means the intention of the floor layout was deliberately to deceive. You'd be hard pressed to say there was deception here, unlike selling distressed new furniture as antiques...

Faux also implies that the floor is fake. It's a solid wood tongue and groove floor - how is that fake. Unlike if someone were to split MDF and glue it up on a wall and paint it to mimic bricks and mortar... Or spraying a grain pattern on MDF to mimic oak...

[Art Mann]

Definition of "authentic": something you like
Definition of "phoney": something you don't like

[Brian Ashton]

I can almost bet that there was an argument like this 400 years ago when the price of exotic woods began to rise so high that someone had the audacity to cut the rosewood, ebony... flitches into thin leaves and glue them over much cheaper pine or poplar solid wood sub-straights.

[Prashun Patel]

Definition of "phoney": Something that resembles a phone... Couldn't resist ;)

[Lenore Epstein]

Definition of "authentic": something you like
Definition of "phoney": something you don't like
+1

(Shoot, why do I need to type ten characters?)

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Eh. I'm no expert, but it comes off as pretty fake looking to me. I also understand how some might find it very aesthetically pleasing. I think really slim guys can pull off an argyle sweater vest. I'm too plump, the only argyle that I wear is on socks. To me, that floor is trying too hard to be something it's not.

[Kees Heiden]

In the end it is a matter of taste, and that's hard to argue about. When you ask me, I'd say most 18th century furniture is phoney. I am sure there will be one or two forum members who don't agree with me.

https://p.dreamwidth.org/81ee0a43dccc/-/www.artfinding.com/images/lot/_263/adrian_alan_louis_xv_style_marquetry_commode_12277 177188190.jpg

[Tony Zona]

I've laid, sanded and finished only a couple hardwood floors. And sanded and finished many others for friends and my dad's customers. The most racy patterns I've seen are random width boards and parquet, if I recall.

I've never thought of patterns like the one shown by the OP, and at first it was startling. But I really like that floor.

It's not for every room, but it is pleasing to my eye. And would be fun to talk about with visitors. It's whimsical and makes me smile. It tells me not to take myself so seriously.

[george wilson]

Pat,I'm really not so sure you couldn't find dovetail joints somewhere in nature. I can't remember where,but I seem to recall something of that nature. Well,I made a pun accidentally.

[steven c newman]

For all the haters of that floor.....get a carpool set up, drive over there, rip that floor up, and put down a floor that pleases YOU, and NOT the floors owner...easy.

[Scott DelPorte]

I have seen pictures of floors done like this where they tried to make the edge of the boards follow the waviness of the grain lines at the edge. They lay boards that have similar undulating edges next to each other before they cut the edges. So when the edge lines are going concave on one board, they are convex on the adjacent. Done this way, it looks organic to me, and in fact I have seen them use the term "live edge" flooring, even though its not live edge as we would think of having sapwood or bark. This would be different that programming several random and repeating curves and cutting boards without thought to the grain lines of each individual board. When I look at the picture in the OP, it looks like there is some attempt at that, but its difficult for me to really tell from the picture.

[george wilson]

Sorry,Steven,I don't hate it enough to go to that trouble. But,maybe if YOU supply the wood.... And,I DON'T mean barn wood!!:)

[steven c newman]

Doubt IF I have enough handy...
333416
That's about all I have as far as a wood supply....

[Mark AJ Allen]

I think to make by handtools only would be pretty straight forward.

1. Gang the matching boards and cut the curve
2. Cut the T&G with a beader-like tool.

Granted, you would have to make a said specialized beader (because I don't think you would do that with a scratch stock, but would want a plane blade) but I don't think it's beyond the skill of anyone to do so that already makes some of their own hand tools.

I think the look is unique and interesting and probably works very well in a very natural looking room, with timber beam framing. Personally, I think some of the curves are a little extreme in the picture and something more subtle would work better.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I'm still trying to figure out what a fake/faux/phoney floor is? If I step on it, do I fall into the basement?
Or, does it mean you actually walk on the wall? (..one of those optical delusion rooms.):confused:

[Bill McNiel]

Hey people, it is ART and real art creates controversy and conversation. Just read the posts by Lenore and George, actual passion was evoked. Yippee! Kudos to Lenore for expressing her thoughts and feelings so articulately. Everyone has their own set of aesthetics and honest opinions as to what they find appealing. It is diversity that fuels a democracy, there is no right or wrong in art, just opinions.

I personally find the floor interesting, appealing and most certainly the work of a fine craftsman or woman. But then again the majority of my projects involve curves so I too may have my own personal prejudices. Just because wood comes from the mill with "straight" edges does not dictate that what we make has to have straight edges.

Peace, love and spare change - Bill

[george wilson]

Actually,I'm starting to like it better by now!!:) Guess I'm in a "What the heck" mood.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I'm still trying to figure out what a fake/faux/phoney floor is? If I step on it, do I fall into the basement?
Or, does it mean you actually walk on the wall? (..one of those optical delusion rooms.):confused:

If someone told you that a fake mink coat fell into the FAUX category, would you wonder if that meant that it wasn't a real coat and instead it was a sleeveless tank top? Regardless if you liked George's comments or not, I am pretty sure that everyone hear is intelligent enough to understand the point. I have never understood arguing semantics to try to win an argument, especially when it's clear what was being conveyed. However, I do think that your comment is pretty funny :). The floor is actually starting to appeal more and more to me.

[Lenore Epstein]

I think the look is unique and interesting and probably works very well in a very natural looking room, with timber beam framing. Personally, I think some of the curves are a little extreme in the picture and something more subtle would work better.
I'm certainly not known for my subtlety! I'd love to know what the rest of the room looks like, though. Maybe there are other elements that makes the floor look subtle by comparison.


Actually,I'm starting to like it better by now!!:) Guess I'm in a "What the heck" mood.
Hey, it happens. 😎