Let's keep politics off SMC

[Mike Vermeil]

After reading (I know, I could choose not to) all the posts regarding the price of drywall, oil, etc, I'd like to appeal to everyone to keep political discussions off SMC, or at least off the General Woodworking Forum.

Personally, I am politically active & a staunch ------- (you'll have to guess), but I don't come to this website for political insight or discussion. It always bothers me when threads such as that mentioned earlier morph into semi-political bash sessions. I'm as passionate as anyone about the issues facing our contry and world, but I come to SMC to learn about, share & discuss woodworking, not to get my dander raised by people making blanket statements about political issues that obviously will bring dissagreement from at least 50% of the SMC members (OK, deep breath). Lamenting the cost of drywall or oil is fine. Placing political blame for these price hikes is for talk radio.

There's enough stress in all our lives, especially with the modern 24 hour news media. Lets do ourselve's a favor and not add to people's stress here.

Thanks,
Mike

[Don Baer]

I agree with you on this one Mike. When I open a thread it is to either learn something about WW or to see if I can help someone with a WW question.

[John Shuk]

Ditto Mike and Don. I find this a refuge from alot of that stuff.
Thanks,
John

[Jim Fancher]

Amen. I come here to escape the outside world.

[Michael Ballent]

I completely agree... I looked at the dry wall post and saw where it was headed and I have not even looked at it since.... besides it's hard to keep up on a post that has more than 12 replies...

[Jim Becker]

I also have to agree with this...I do have stong political opinions but they have zero to do with the act of woodworking, design and home improvement. And it's not up to the "moderators" to police this...it's up to the posting members to remember where they are. And you can always have a nice exchange via PM or email with folks that have opposing views...something I've done any number of times and we all lived through what was really a pleasant exchange of dialog. (That includes my father, by the way...we are very much at different spectrums...)

[Donnie Raines]

Agree. I have got caught up in the moment a few times...easy to do these days I guess.

[Tim Burke]

I agree with all of the above comments. I have the same opinions and daily stresses that anyone else has. This place is my retreat from all of that. That's why I spend a lot more time here than other forums!

[John Stevens]

Quoting from the TOS:


D. Forum Moderation
The forums at SawMill Creek are moderated. [snip]
1. Religion and Politics
All members shall abstain from engaging in religious or political debate.

[Dev Emch]

I agree also with poly sci topics as well. Personally, I could care less. But unlike many hobbies, this one has a major flaw. Raw Goods! I think its great when fellow woodworkers find new and novel ways to keep the lumber costs down and to show us how to ship things cheaply. Sometimes, that brings some light political banter into play. I can tolerate some of this if a good deal is waiting at the end. Also, given certain national circumstances, should it be needed, it may be a good idea to hord lumber. But that is a concept already familar to many of us. How many woodworkers have their own barn in which they keep wonderful boards? They have no idea of what to use it for but they could not resist in buying it.:) I know that given certain political instabilities right now, I will be hording some nice hard wood for myself. Again, my skin is thick enough to withstand some politcal bantering if there is a nice plank of figured curly maple or ribbon mahagony or super fleck white oak at the end of the bantering.:D

[Lee DeRaud]

... besides it's hard to keep up on a post that has more than 12 replies...Look under "UserCP", "Edit Options", "Thread Display Options": one of the choices is "Latest First". Makes a world of difference...unless of course you come into a thread really late:eek: .

[Lee DeRaud]

Again, my skin is thick enough to withstand some politcal bantering if there is a nice plank of figured curly maple or ribbon mahagony or super fleck white oak at the end of the bantering.:DJust as long as I don't end up seeing it from way too close up, moving way too fast. :eek: :D

[Dennis Peacock]

I have to agree......

If we kept that stuff off SMC....we wouldn't have to police as many messages or threads.

[Donnie Raines]

Again, my skin is thick enough to withstand some politcal bantering if there is a nice plank of figured curly maple or ribbon mahagony or super fleck white oak at the end of the bantering.:D

Look me up...I have plenty of curly, birdseye and the like....hord all you want :D

[Keith Starosta]

After reading (I know, I could choose not to) all the posts regarding the price of drywall, oil, etc, I'd like to appeal to everyone to keep political discussions off SMC, or at least off the General Woodworking Forum.

Personally, I am politically active & a staunch ------- (you'll have to guess), but I don't come to this website for political insight or discussion. It always bothers me when threads such as that mentioned earlier morph into semi-political bash sessions. I'm as passionate as anyone about the issues facing our contry and world, but I come to SMC to learn about, share & discuss woodworking, not to get my dander raised by people making blanket statements about political issues that obviously will bring dissagreement from at least 50% of the SMC members (OK, deep breath). Lamenting the cost of drywall or oil is fine. Placing political blame for these price hikes is for talk radio.

There's enough stress in all our lives, especially with the modern 24 hour news media. Lets do ourselve's a favor and not add to people's stress here.

Thanks,
Mike

Leave it to a ------- to start a thread like this!!

;) :D :) :p

Keith

[Keith Foster]

Being one of "the" posters in the afore mentioned thread (drywall) - I found the replies to be mostly non-political and a great general discussion on economics. If I offended anyone I assure you that was not my intention. But having reread all the replies once again, I really didn't see anyone slinging mud or calling names - just lots of insight from different folks across many states. Really one of the better threads I've posted on.

Still - I will admit it has taken a turn (like a bad hurricane) away from woodworking. And it certainly doesn't have anything to do with Power Tools. :D So, that being said I'll refrain from posting further in that particular thread.

Have a great day,

[Bill Simmeth]

I don't post a lot here; I mostly come to the Creek in absorb mode. That being said, I think political posts are perfectly fine -- as long as y'all agree with my political point-of-view. :p

[Jim Dunn]

I'll "vote" for limiting the posts to ww only.

[John Bailey]

I don't post very often either. (I'm exactly 9,817 behind Jim Becker) I hold very opinionated political views (voted straight Green Party in the last two elections). However, when I see posts on this site that get political, I immediately switch to threads like Terry Hatfield's BBQ thread to get a hoot, or gentleman Jim Becker's to get astute advice. For me it's meditative and stress reducing. (Although being retired, some might say I've no stress.) So, politic if you must, I respectfully decline.

John

[Per Swenson]

Hi Folks,

Personally, I could care less if

a thread becomes political or not.

(without intentionally violating the TOS)

I am a big boy and have a democratic mouse.

One click voting.

Per

[Don Baer]

I am a big boy and have a democratic mouse.

One click voting.

Per

My mouse is Independent....lol

[Jerry Ingraham]

I agree. In looking at other forums where it is allowed, it almost always gets, uh, heated.

[Rich Konopka]

I agree that we should keep politics off of SMC.

However, I wouldn't classify the thread "$9.63 Drywall " as a Political thread. Yes, there were a brief post with some political slant but the 99.9% of the posts were economic related and really did not violate the TOS. It strayed quite a bit but I don't think it should be label as a political thread. I actually learned a couple of things from it.

Cheers !!

[Lee DeRaud]

I agree that we should keep politics off of SMC.

However, I wouldn't classify the thread "$9.63 Drywall " as a Political thread. Yes, there were a brief post with some political slant but the 99.9% of the posts were economic related and really did not violate the TOS.I beg to differ: economics is political, has been at least since Hoover, if not centuries before.

And for a lot of people, economics (AKA politics) is a major-league Religion.

You want to talk about where to get the best price on drywall? No problem.
You want to talk (or rant) about why that price is so high? Problem.

[Frank Guerin]

I'm voting for Pat Paulson.

[Lee DeRaud]

I'm voting for Pat Paulsen.Uh, not that it necessarily makes him a bad candidate, but isn't he, like, dead? :eek:

(http://www.paulsen.com/)

[Joe Mioux]

I am in favor of political debate as long as you all agree with me.:rolleyes:

I started reading the thread in question, (I did not read it all) but for what its worth. I only read one political comment and a lot of Big Business Commentary.

Right or wrong, those comments do not belong here either.

I love political debate, but not here at SMC.

JOE

[Phil Phelps]

Uh, not that it necessarily makes him a bad candidate, but isn't he, like, dead? :eek:

(http://www.paulsen.com/)

That makes him the best candidate of all :eek:

[Robert Mayer]

Oh stop whining. who doesnt like a little controversy now and then? You might even change your viewpoint!

[Steve Clardy]

doesn't bother me. If I'm not interested in the thread, click

[Jim Becker]

That makes him the best candidate of all

That's what I wanted to say, but it could have been construed that I was working on the campaign...

[Don Baer]

That's what I wanted to say, but it could have been construed that I was working on the campaign...

Now thats funney Jim.

;)

[Rob Littleton]

Isn't a Bush wood?

Is that a political statement or a stupid one :-)

I think very STUPID.......

hehehehe, don't shoot me, it's my sense of humor.....

I know, Im working on it

[Andy Hoyt]

Uh, not that it necessarily makes him a bad candidate, but isn't he, like, dead? :eek:

(http://www.paulsen.com/)

I was about to write something intended to be humorous regarding the "dead" factor and relate it to a certain incumbent who appears to suffer the same condition. But after a second thought, and not wanting to sound in anyway politcal, I decided to write this instead.:cool:

[Jerry Clark]

The drywall thread should have been moved to Off Topics anyway-- it is not wood related! My 2 cents worth:cool:

[Bill Lewis]

There used to be a saying that there are three things that you do not discuss in polite conversation, Politics, Religion and Sex. The TOS rules out the first two, so...... ok, i"m not going there either.

There are often off-topic discussions that crop up in this section, and the moderators do what they can to move them when appropriate, but it is really the responsibility for each individual poster to properly place his or her post in the correct section. Why make it any harder on the moderators, this isn't a full time job for them. It only takes a day or two, or three away from the creek to become really backlogged in unread (or unmoderated) posts. Even though they do a great job, sometimes a few posts can get by them. I spoke with Aaron on a related topic at the past spring get-together held at Keith Outten's place, and I got the impression that they were going after the blatent, and pretty much not sweating the small stuff. However, I was encouraged to report to them posts considered inappropriate, or misplaced.

Every individual has the ability to report a topic to the moderators if they think it is inappropriate, or misplaced. All you have to do is click on the litte "warning sign" on th upper right of each post. Possibly, if we all did a little more of this, we may have more members thinking (and I'm NOT pointing fingers here) first about Where they post, as well as What they post.

I pretty much spend most of my time here GW&PT or in the OT section, and I would guess that there are many people who pretty much stick to a single forum or two like me. I am glad there are other forums as well and there are people that participate in them. Otherwise that finishing question that I may have one day would get lost in the volume in no time at all.

Come to think of it, this topic should really be in the OT section as well, it has nothing to do with WW or tools.

[Craig Zettle]

Yes Bill that is true that we should put our posts where they belong.

For instance, my post on screwing up a cement job I just did I put in off topic, knowing full well that most of you guys won't see it, because most of you don't go anywhere but here. But I wanted to do the right thing. As it turned out, I got some good advice anyway. But that is the chance you take.

[Dale Rodabaugh]

I frequent another site,dealing with old trucks.Every once in awhile things get really heated with politics.I am retired and have very strong political views.I never post anything political,but if someone posts something against my views I will post my opinion.I did not read the drywall thread,so I have no idea what political jabs was in it.I have never read any political stuff on this site,and it is a plkeasure to just read things about woodworking.I dont give a damn about how you feel about the present administration,pro or con,I just dont want to hear about it here.I hear this crap every time I turn on the TV or radio.I have many friends with different political views than mine.We get along just fine cause we dont discuss them.So I say talk politics elsewhere and talk woodworking here.:mad: :cool: :)

[John Stevens]

There used to be a saying that there are three things that you do not discuss in polite conversation, Politics, Religion and Sex.

Yup, with very few exceptions I’ve regretted the political or religious conversations I’ve gotten into. Too easy to offend or hurt, and almost never does anybody learn anything positive.


economics is political [snip] And for a lot of people, economics (AKA politics) is a major-league Religion.<O:p

Yup, the more you learn about economics, the more you see the connection with politics. It’s one thing to gripe about prices--no different than griping about the weather. But take the next step and call for the government to regulate--or not regulate--how people run their businesses, then you’ve just started a political debate that can get ugly really quickly. I’d rather not have that here.

[Lee DeRaud]

Based on a quick (and very unscientific) scan of the data:
There are 30+ participants on this thread so far.
There are 30+ participants on the "drywall" thread so far.
There are only about 4 participants common to both threads.

Not sure either group is getting its point across.
For that matter, not sure either group has a point at this point.:p

We now return you to your regularly scheduled whatever.

[Aaron Koehl]

Politics are prohibited by our Terms of Service (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terms.php)-- there are plenty of arenas for it, but not SawmillCreek. There is also a lot of subjectivity in what constitutes politics, but ultimately it is up to our moderators and I to take action.

The most effective remedy to an offending post (political, religious, obscene, advertising, etc) is to click "Report Post" which will alert our moderators. This will send us an email and we can then choose to take action. We rely on our members to be self-moderating--we all get out of line from time to time. Only when posts are silently reported can any action be guaranteed..

I promise it's much more effective than any other method!


Also, we do the best we can to move threads (like this one) to their proper forum. (SawmillCreek-related posts go to the Support Forum.) We catch most of them and silently move them. I strongly urge anyone who doesn't do so already to use the "New Posts" link at the top of the screen.. ;)

[Lee DeRaud]

Also, we do the best we can to move threads (like this one) to their proper forum. (SawmillCreek-related posts go to the Support Forum.) We catch most of them and silently move them.Just my opinion, but I'm not sure "silently" is the best approach: it lacks any "behavioral reinforcement" that might help to prevent the problem in the future. And silent thread deletion certainly leaves way too many questions unanswered.

[Don Baer]

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure "silently" is the best approach: it lacks any "behavioral reinforcement" that might help to prevent the problem in the future. And silent thread deletion certainly leaves way too many questions unanswered.

I agree with Lee on this one. On another forum where I am one of the managers, we delete the contents of certain threads but always leave a "Moderator Note" giving a reason for the deletion. Just a thought.

i..e "Thread was deleted because it contianed a commercial"

[Aaron Koehl]

We do give notices on deleted threads. What I said about Silently Moving had to do with putting the threads in the proper forums.

On another note, any threads moved to the Moderator's Forum are there specifically because they violate our Terms.

Pretty simple system, I think.

[Lee DeRaud]

We do give notices on deleted threads. What I said about Silently Moving had to do with putting the threads in the proper forums.

On another note, any threads moved to the Moderator's Forum are there specifically because they violate our Terms.

Pretty simple system, I think.Only reason I mentioned it was that there were a couple that disappeared in the last two days with no notice. When a thread gets moved from one forum to another, there is usually a "moved thread" placeholder left in the forum it came from.

"Silently moving a thread to the Moderator's Forum" and "silently deleting a thread" look pretty much the same to a non-moderator.

[Aaron Koehl]

Again, my reference to silently moving threads didn't have to do with the threads that got moved to the moderator's forum. E.g. It has to do with threads in the GWW that get moved to OffTopic, Support Forum, Classifieds, etc.

I may move a thread without notice on occasion, but it is rare, compared to the sheer volume that I move on a daily basis.

The fact of the matter is, we do give notice when we take moderator actions. It is a courtesy we provide, but are not bound to it, especially when we are particularly busy, as I have been the past 3 days.

[Bob Weisner]

What is the moderator's forum?

[Don Baer]

It's a secret.....:D
It's a private forum for moderators only.

[Lee DeRaud]

What is the moderator's forum?Don't go there.

Oh wait, you can't.:eek: :D

[Andy Hoyt]

Geez! Whaddya say we reboot!

[Aaron Koehl]

Don't go there.

Oh wait, you can't.:eek: :D
And for good reason. It simply a subforum where we move all the spam, violations of Terms of Service, people ranting and raving, etc.

It's called the Moderator's Forum because in order for moderators to move threads "to the penalty box", they have to have access to it.