Vacuum pumps

[Derek Voigt]

I have been toying with the idea of adding a vacuum pump to my collection of tools and have the opportunity to purchase one second hand 1HP Thomas pump
with a small tank. Apparently it is lightly used and was previously used for vacuum chucking previously. He is asking 300 for the set up. Is that a far deal? Is a tank really needed for this purpose, seems like tanks go with compressors and not for vacuuming? Is there a better "entry level" set up for the casual user that I should be considering instead?

thanks,
Derek332957

[Tom Albrecht]

You don't need a tank for vacuum chucking. Even if it is "lightly used" that's a high price for a used pump. Have you researched to see what it would cost new? A new Gast pump--the vacuum chucking benchmark-- would run you between $400 -$500.

[guy laizure]

That model vacuum pump is heavy duty and sells new for $1000.

[Sid Matheny]

I think that style of vacuum pump and tank would be used with flat work on a CNC. At least that is the only place I have seen them used. I see no reason it could not be used on the lathe also.

[Derek Voigt]

I just recently started looking into vacuum systems, but get confused with what I need to really accomplish this. I see the gast pump and the harbor freight pumps, but also see things like vacuum generators, and gauges, and a Hold Fast 6" Vacuum Chuck System. So I just end up doing nothing. It only camp up again because I came across this pump forsale

[Fred Belknap]

I got a vacuum system from frugalvacuumchuck.com and am very pleased with it. It came as a complete unit, like plug and play except you had to make the vacuum chuck but he sent a PVC coupler and a piece of wood to make it with. Nice person to do business with. It is a recycled medical vacuum pump. The price is right, forgot what it was as it been year and I have trouble remembering what I did yesterday.

[hu lowery]

I have been toying with the idea of adding a vacuum pump to my collection of tools and have the opportunity to purchase one second hand 1HP Thomas pump
with a small tank. Apparently it is lightly used and was previously used for vacuum chucking previously. He is asking 300 for the set up. Is that a far deal? Is a tank really needed for this purpose, seems like tanks go with compressors and not for vacuuming? Is there a better "entry level" set up for the casual user that I should be considering instead?

thanks,
Derek332957


Just finished putting together a vacuum system so I can tell you what I learned the hard way. Many places will airily claim all of the Thomas pumps are the same. The CFM varies from pretty marginal to a bodacious plenty while the vacuum will remain the same. Not unusual to have leakage including through the wood you are trying to hold, around various components of your system too.

If this is one of the high CFM pumps in good shape it is a good deal at $300 for it and the reservoir. A vacuum tank can come in handy if you lose power or hit the wrong switch, or if you get a sudden leak. Not a must but not a bad thing to have on a vacuum system going to a lathe.

Now the bad news: I went with locally sourced brass fittings to put my vacuum system together, over seventy-five dollars worth of bits and pieces of brass and hoses. You can make your own vacuum chucks but if you buy those I think they run about seventy-five apiece. Another big hit is the adapter to go to your spindle or a piece of lamp tubing to carry the vacuum. You can buy plastic fittings and save a lot of money but you need to be able to get all you need in a trip or two, fourteen trips to the hardware and supply house gets pretty expensive.

If the pump isn't quite as cherry as advertised it probably won't matter if it is a high CFM pump, even if it needs a top end kit they are only about $20. These pumps are intended to run for thousands of hours and the bottom ends are almost bulletproof, odds are slim of needing the bottom rebuilt.

Just at a SWAG you would probably be looking at $450-$500 by the time you completed your system. You might have the most killer system on the block when you do and be the envy of all your friends. However, if the idea is to get a vacuum system working without spending more than you need to, look up Frugal Vacuum Chucks or something like that. His best units will set you back about three hundred I believe as a turn key deal. I would have been ahead of the game had I went with one of his systems and wouldn't have spent several months puttering around back and forth putting it together. I do have the nicest vacuum system on the block now but not knowing what I told you about CFM, I bought a used pump that is on the low end of CFM. It will work but I have to be careful about leakage.

If that is a high volume pump it could be nice for your wood stabilizing system, your vacuum chuck for carving, and your vacuum table for flat work as well as your lathe chuck. I'm not advising to buy or not buy but I am advising to do your homework. What the pump is worth and what it is worth to you may or may not be the same thing. I needed a winch for a wrecker. I was offered a fantastic deal on a Tulsa winch that weighed more than my wrecker! A great deal but not for me.

Hu

[Ken Glass]

Derek,
I have had both a Gast 0523 Vacuum Pump system (shop assembled with homemade vacuum chucks) and just recently I purchased a Holdfast System with a 3" and 6" vacuum chuck using a small Makita pancake compressor. Each has its advantages, but both produced very adequate vacuum between 22-29 HG's, which is enough for most Wood turning projects. It all about what your needs are.

[Thom Sturgill]

Another option is JT Turning Tools (http://www.jtturningtools.com/), Tom sells one of, if not the best vacuum adapters which generally include a handwheel machined to fit the standard adapter to your lathe. He also sells a pump, a hardware kit and vacuum hubs. I only own the adapter, so I can not speak to the others although I have seen many good remarks on SMC about his wares.

[Greg McClurg]

You might also check out Joewoodworker.com. He is another source for kits and instructions.

[Derek Voigt]

Derek,
I have had both a Gast 0523 Vacuum Pump system (shop assembled with homemade vacuum chucks) and just recently I purchased a Holdfast System with a 3" and 6" vacuum chuck using a small Makita pancake compressor. Each has its advantages, but both produced very adequate vacuum between 22-29 HG's, which is enough for most Wood turning projects. It all about what your needs are.

Here in lies more confusion for me.... where does a compressor come into play in this set up. I have a 30 gallon compressor in my shop, does that open up my options, or do I need a vacuum pump no matter what??

[daryl moses]

you wouldn't need a vacuum pump if you go the compressor route.

[Ken Glass]

Derek,
The Vacuum Generator of the Holdfast system converts air pressure from your air compressor into vacuum using its Vacuum Generator. See here for details. http://www.stickfast.net/holdfast/holdfast.html

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Now the bad news: I went with locally sourced brass fittings to put my vacuum system together, over seventy-five dollars worth of bits and pieces of brass and hoses. You can make your own vacuum chucks but if you buy those I think they run about seventy-five apiece. Another big hit is the adapter to go to your spindle or a piece of lamp tubing to carry the vacuum. You can buy plastic fittings and save a lot of money but you need to be able to get all you need in a trip or two, fourteen trips to the hardware and supply house gets pretty expensive.

My experience hasn't been quite as bad - I've put together two complete systems over the past several years - one for my bench-mounted carving stand and one for the lathe. Both pumps together cost less than $125.00. That got me an older Thomas/Reichle rocking piston type and a brand new, surplus inventory Gast 0523. If you look around enough, you can find good deals on pumps. And, as Hu points out, rebuild kits are cheap and readily available.

The hardware, fittings, hoses and gauges - including a portable air tank from HF to use as a reserve put me out about $100. I splurged on a good Adapter from JT Turning Tools - when I bought it several years ago with my AB it added $89 to the cost. I was able to put together two complete systems - minus the chucks which I made myself from shop materials and extra faceplates cost just a little over $300.

As for plans, the AAW Journal had a good article a few years back, it's available on-line for members, there's also a permanent link (or there used to be one) on their forum to information on vacuum systems from the same guy that wrote the article I think. Veneer Supplies has plans for systems that work well (also good prices on hardware and the bits and pieces).

It's not a difficult build, just do your homework and take your time to get the best deals.

[Walter Mooney]

+1 for frugal vacuum chucks. Great deal, set up and working in less than an hour. Got mine last year at SWAT, and I love it!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The compressor generated system, Holdfast is pretty much turn-key. You can buy all the parts from them, INCLUDING a MT adapter for your chuck. Take your piece (with the chuck) off and the adapter and chuck goes in the tailstock. Your piece wil be perfectly centered when you vacuum the piece to your headstock. I tried (failed) turning an adapter that would be perfectly straight, but I only could get it pretty close.

Holdfast system does have limits, biggest problem is that it does not pull lots of air, so holding porous woods is not possible. It is reasonably priced, IMO.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Here in lies more confusion for me.... where does a compressor come into play in this set up. I have a 30 gallon compressor in my shop, does that open up my options, or do I need a vacuum pump no matter what??

The vacuum is generated with a Venturi, like the Carburator on a engine that uses the airflow to make vacuum to suck the gasoline into the airstream to make the engine able to run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

So your compressor is used to make the vacuum and the Venturi becomes the “vacuum pump” with the moving air the only moving part.

Venturi type pumps come in many sizes, and can move lots of air, often very noisy for the fast flowing and turbulent air, they are very good at moving volatile fluids for instance, as theres are no combustion hazards with these pumps.

HTH :)

[Derek Voigt]

But then I just realized that if I use my compressor to vacuum chuck, then I won't be able to power sand at the same time.

I did find the spec on this specific motor, but not really sure what specs a motor should have:
333038

[Derek Voigt]

Also, could the same vacuum pump for turning be used to run a vacuum press? The function of "it provides vacuum" is the same, but is one more demanding then the other that would require different things.

[hu lowery]

But then I just realized that if I use my compressor to vacuum chuck, then I won't be able to power sand at the same time.

I did find the spec on this specific motor, but not really sure what specs a motor should have:
333038


These same pumps can be used as a vacuum pump or compressor. The unit this chart is for was used as a compressor originally best I can read. I don't know how to translate possible CFM of pressure to possible CFM of vacuum. However the one horse motor is the larger motor and seems to have only been offered on one unit. Best I recall, the most CFM of vacuum was over six CFM which would pull a fair sized vacuum table I believe. I assume if you had issues you could just throw a sheet of rubber over some of the open holes on the top of a large vacuum table to reduce leakage. CFM measures volume of course not vacuum strength so it has more to do with how quick a vacuum is pulled than how much as long as the leakage isn't too great. A small pump will eventually pull the same load as a large one if there is no leakage as a very embarrassed plant worker discovered when he sucked a tank that held hundreds of gallons flat with a very small vacuum pump!

These pumps are often used as the compressors that you stick money in and air tires with at most self-service stations now to give some idea of volume.

The venturi type vacuum units that run off of a compressor pull a lot of CFM, seven to fifteen. Many compressors can't even power one and the annoyance of a compressor running nonstop to power the very inefficient seeming venturi unit doesn't seem a plus to me. The wear and tear on a compressor is considerable too. The vacuum pump runs full time but isn't nearly as noisy. I'm sure a vacuum switch could be had to cut it off but mine at least would still be running most or all of the time with the leakage I have. I open a valve to a filtered inlet to let in outside air to control vacuum pressure.

hu

[Larry Matchett]

The Frugal systems are great. The one I have has a Gast pump. Since the one you are looking at one that has a tank the pump will not need to run continuously which is a real plus especially if you decide to get into using a vacuum chamber for casting or if you do some laminating. One of my club members made one and it is terrific. I also have a holdfast system and it works but not nearly as well as my frugal system. Anything that pulls 27" will work very well. Don't buy a pump that uses oil unless you want oil mist all over the place especially the cheap ones from the Chinese store.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Also, could the same vacuum pump for turning be used to run a vacuum press? The function of "it provides vacuum" is the same, but is one more demanding then the other that would require different things.

A sealed vacuum chamber, like a bag used as vacuum press needs only to be brought to the vacuum pressure that is wanted/needed, and then can be left, this is of course for as long as there is no leakage in the bag.

So there is very little work to be done for that.

For vacuum chucking on a lathe there is always leakage, some through the wood, some through the chuck seals and also through the rotary adaptor, so you can’t turn the pump off as you can in a good vacuum press.

As for the tank on this unit it would give you very little time before that small amount of vacuum is replaced with leaked air, though it can give you a few seconds to safely stop the lathe if your vacuum pump quits, (like when overheated, as the unit is protected and will quit when it gets too hot)

[James Combs]

I have been toying with the idea of adding a vacuum pump to my collection of tools and have the opportunity to purchase one second hand 1HP Thomas pump
with a small tank. Apparently it is lightly used and was previously used for vacuum chucking previously. He is asking 300 for the set up. Is that a far deal? Is a tank really needed for this purpose, seems like tanks go with compressors and not for vacuuming? Is there a better "entry level" set up for the casual user that I should be considering instead?

thanks,
Derek
Hi Derek, You have gotten some great info here but I still sense some confusion. I have built my on system from a pawn-shop vacuum pump, it has been a while but I did a basic diagram of a wood shop vacuum system that covers chucking and using the pump for a vacuum chamber. Perhaps it will help, see this PDF file (http://www.jnjwoodsmithing.com/web_documents/vacuumsystemdiagramjnj.pdf). My original thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?162882-My-New-Vacuum-Chuck) may also help. If you do a search on "vacuum chuck" you will find similar threads from other DIYers.