Looking for a Jack Plane

[Wade Holloway]

Need some ideas of where to find a good Jack Plane, maybe a Stanley pre WWII. Not sure I want to get into restoring them myself. So I am really looking for some place or some body that sells them for a reasonable price and is reliable. I have played with the LV and LN new planes but so many say the older Stanleys are just as good if not better. Any leads or ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[ken hatch]

Wade,

Type 9 thru Type 13 Stanley's can be very good planes. If you try to buy on eBay in many cases by the time you pay for shipping and the burn rate you could have bought a LV, LN, or Woodriver and gone to work with a plane that for the most part works out of the box. I've found if you include all costs buying new is often cheaper. Of course YMMV.

ken

BTW, I know what to look for and I will occasionally still get burned buying on eBay.

[lowell holmes]

I have to say that old Stanley planes that are clean, do a really nice job if you get all of the parts lined out, but ,IMHO, there's no way they will perform with a new Lie Nielsen . Neither will they match up with the Lee Valley planes.

I some of all three.

[Jim Koepke]

Just as good or better is very subjective. I really like my old Stanley/Bailey planes. To me they have a more appealing look, that is just my opinion. If properly tuned they may take a shaving off a piece of wood just as nice, but it is very doubtful they could ever do it better.

Do you already have any hand planes?

Are you familiar with Patrick Leach or Bob Kaune?

A lot of the sellers one would be referred to in the past are no longer with us.

Are there any flea markets or second hand junk stores in your area?

I have found planes everywhere from antique shops to pawn shops. Surely there has to be somebody that has one sitting on a shelf waiting for you to find it in your neck of the woods.

A quick search turned up this:

Dowd's Vintage & Antique Tools
1400 Williams Drive
Garland, Texas 75042 -

See more at: http://dowdstools.com/contact-us#sthash.2nALKjO5.dpuf

Not sure what they have on hand, but you might send them an email or give them a call.

That is a bit of a drive, but if you are out that way.

There is surely an old tools store or something in the Dallas - Fort Worth area.

There is also a LN Tool Event in Dallas in mid April:

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/hand-tool-events/USA/52

If you are the gregarious type you might meet someone there who is just the sale of an old Stanley away from being able to buy a new LN.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

If you were a contributor ($6 donation), you could post a wanted to buy in the classifieds here and somebody might dig one up that they could spare.

[Patrick Chase]

I have to say that old Stanley planes that are clean, do a really nice job if you get all of the parts lined out, but ,IMHO, there's no way they will perform with a new Lie Nielsen . Neither will they match up with the Lee Valley planes.

I some of all three.

You're just trying to drive down demand so you can buy more planes for cheap, right? :-)

[lowell holmes]

You're just trying to drive down demand so you can buy more planes for cheap, right? :-)

I already have 12 planes, I don't plan on buying more.:)

[Archie England]

Wade,

Type 9 thru Type 13 Stanley's can be very good planes. If you try to buy on eBay in many cases by the time you pay for shipping and the burn rate you could could have bought a LV, LN, or Woodriver and gone to work with a plane that for the most part works out of the box. I've found if you include all costs buying new is often cheaper. Of course YMMV.

ken

BTW, I know what to look for and I will occasionally still get burned buying on eBay.


+1 on everything Ken has said.

Now, for my 2 pennies worth...

I've rehabbed quite a number of vintage planes and like (no, love) the performance of the types 8-17 (even an occasional 19) of the Stanley line. Also, Millers Falls and Sargent planes can be quite wonderful, too.

LN are better made modern versions of the Stanley planes. The bodies are ductile, have better blades, cap irons, etc. They are just superior made. For all that, I can match my LNs (and many times beat them) with SOME of my rehabbed Stanleys, MFs, or Sargents (some with original blades, others with Hocks or Veritas replacements). IMO, once you take a LN apart and resharpen the blade, you really face the same issues as having to tune/fettle any vintage plane (that's still in good+ condition); so, buying a LN is not an automatic given that it will work without some tweaking. OTOH, that LN will come out of box tuned and sharpened to perfection. There's few vintage planes that can equal the LV performance without some significant fettling. Once done, and learned, then the vintage planes give modern planes quite the challenge.

My LV planes are a whole new, better class of engineering. LV has embedded screw stops, and added profoundly better adjustments and mechanisms. IMO, LV wins the contest for the better mouse trap! I don't like some of the ergonomic aspects or design lines on the LV planes as well as the LN planes; but, performance wise, they are superb and much easier to dial in and forget. Please don't misunderstand--I like (and have bought a few of each) LN and LV planes. I also like my vintage planes, as well.

[Patrick Chase]

My LV planes are a whole new, better class of engineering. LV has embedded screw stops, and added profoundly better adjustments and mechanisms. IMO, LV wins the contest for the better mouse trap! I don't like some of the ergonomic aspects or design lines on the LV planes as well as the LN planes; but, performance wise, they are superb and much easier to dial in and forget. Please don't misunderstand--I like (and have bought a few of each) LN and LV planes. I also like my vintage planes, as well.

As much as I'm an LV/Veritas fan, I think that's a bit unfair to L-N. It's sort of like beating up on Porsche for continuing to produce the 911 as their top-of-the-line car, even though its engine is undeniably in the wrong place.

L-N's self-described mission is to produce "heirloom-quality tools", not "modern marvels of hand tool engineering" (that's LV's gig). Implicit in L-N's mission is a fairly rigorous adherence to traditional designs, and IMO they succeed magnificently when measured on their own terms. They've done a good job of figuring out where they can make improvements while preserving the essence of those classic designs, and their tools are superbly executed by any reasonable standard.

That brings me back to the Porsche comparison - They continue to produce the 911 because they have a customer base that loves that basic design and is willing to pay $$$ for the best possible implementation thereoff. Ditto L-N.

[Ray Selinger]

After I have tuned up an older Stanley, I think Veritas planes are quite inexpensive. I usually replace the blade and cap iron with a LV PM VII so the cost difference isn't that great.

[Stew Denton]

Wade,

Like Jim I have bought type 10, 11, and 12 Stanley Jack planes at a flea market. I paid an average of less than $20 for them. I bought a couple for $10 apiece. Unfortunately I only get to a big flea market once in a blue moon. The ones I paid that price for were in pretty good user condition, but the did not look pretty. I was able to buy both Jack planes and smoothing planes for that same money, less than $20.

I have partially, to nearly fully, restored several planes, but the truth is that only a very minimal amount of restoration has anything to do with practical performance of the plane. I try to restore the appearance of the plane as much is REASONABLY possible, but of course a 100 year old plane that has been used a lot will have dings, etc., that you can't fix that without some sort of heroic effort. I am not going to make a heroic effort on a plane.

The truth is that if you clean off the rust that can be progressing (ie: leave the patina that is not leading to further rust), flatten the contact areas of the frog and bed of the plane, flatten and polish the back of the iron, touch up the chip breaker so the point of contact is flat and tight against the front of the iron, remove any burrs or high spots from the top of the frog so that the iron will fit tightly against it, clean up the threads of the bolts and bolt holes so that the plane can be easily adjusted, and finally sharpen the iron until it is frighteningly sharp, the plane will probably preform very well. It may be necessary to flatten the sole, but a lot of the time, such is not really needed all that much.

This type of restoration is not all that time consuming. Trying to make one look really nice takes a GREAT deal more time, but does little to improve the performance of the plane more than the simple steps in the above paragraph will do. You should be able to do all of the performance improving steps in a day or so.

What I am saying is you can save a great deal of money over buying one of the premium planes if you purchase a vintage Stanley Bailey plane from a flea market if you can get it at a decent price, and doing the CRITICAL restoration steps to make it a performer.

Finally some advise on buying a user grade vintage plane, and getting a GOOD user from it at a low price: 1. don't buy a plane that is missing parts, as Ebay parts for vintage Stanley planes will drive up the low initial cost of the plane a LOT, 2. don't buy a plane with the chip breaker or iron strongly corroded on the business end, as this will make it difficult to sharpen the iron and to keep it sharp, 3. make sure the sole of plane is dead flat, as far as you can tell, and 4. don't buy a plane that is a rust bucket where there are machine screws, etc. Finally, look over the plane very carefully before buying it, checking the body carefully for cracks, as small cracks that may even be fairly long are difficult so see.

A broken tote or knob is not a deal breaker, if both parts are still on the plane, and it can be glued up cleanly. The last tote I glued up and then sanded after a few weeks of drying time, was such that the break could almost not be detected. The last time I glued up a tote, I cleaned up the glue surfaces with acetone to get the oils out of the glue surfaces, and then used Gorilla glue. After it dried thoroughly, sanded it, and refinished it, the break was very difficult to see, and mechanically the tote was very strong.

At any rate, I think if you look enough, you should be able to get into a good jack plane that will do good work for a total of less than $40, if you do the restoration and sharpening, and if you buy one that has good parts on it to begin with. Fortunately there are so many Jack planes around that a Jack plane is one of the lowest priced planes you will find, and I have even bought Bed Rock Jack planes in good condition for $50, but it has been a while since I bought one for that price.

Finally, if you are looking at the long term on the planes, I recommend buying Stanley planes because should you break a part and need one, you can usually find the part on Ebay. That doesn't mean that the Stanley planes are necessarily any better than some other brands, but I can speak from personal experience that parts on other brands of planes can be pretty hard to come by.

Regards,

stew

[Allan Speers]

You might even consider an old wooden jack plane, although in that case (unless you know what you're looking for) you REALLY need to buy from a reliable source.

There's a certain vibe one gets from using an old, well-used tool, and woodies amplify that feeling by quite a bit. For metal planes, and if cost wasn't a factor, then I'd rather have an LV all day long. - but I MUCH prefer my woodies, when everything is set right & when I'm not in a hurry.


You can even get new ones, from companies like Old Street tool, (Clark & Williams) HNT Gordon, ECE, Ulmia, etc. I'm VERY fond of the ECE Primus planes. Still, they don't have the vibe of something that's actually been making furniture for the past 200 years. :)

[Kees Heiden]

Hey guys, we're talking about a JACK plane here. A roughing tool. It can have all kinds of defects and still work perfectly well. Sole doesn't need to be flat, or square to the sides. Blade can have some pitting. Capiron can have a sloppy fit. Etc. Grind a bit of camber on the edge. Sharpen it and get loose.

[Derek Cohen]

Need some ideas of where to find a good Jack Plane, maybe a Stanley pre WWII. Not sure I want to get into restoring them myself. So I am really looking for some place or some body that sells them for a reasonable price and is reliable. I have played with the LV and LN new planes but so many say the older Stanleys are just as good if not better. Any leads or ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Hi Wade

What use do you plane to put your jack to? Is this to become a smoother or a roughing plane? If a smoother, then consider any quality plane ... although I must add that the #5 or #5 1/2 would not be my choice here. A smoother is better when shorter than this. If a roughing plane, the just about any #5 would do. Possibly better would be a woodie around 15" in length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Hachet]

I am with Jim K, my vintage Stanley #5 that I have used for three decades works as well IMHO for jack usage as any LN plane. There are a bunch of vintage #5 planes around, wood or steel. biggest thing is learn to sharpen if you don't already know and get a little camber in the blade. I ahve three jacks all set up differently....I have about $30 or so in all three....outside of the Hock Iron and chip breaker I put into the one I have had the longest.

[Jim Koepke]

This thread has given me an ear worm that is like "Leaving on a Jet Plane."

I'm looking for my jack plane
Gotta clean my sawing marks again
Oh hey, I could have used a froe...

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

My issue with the new planes is the weight. They are much heavier than their antique counterparts. Occasionally, a heavier plane is an advantage but I'd much prefer lighter. It's like comparing a truck to a sports car. Which is better? Depends on what you want to do.

I'll gladly trade my Wood River #4 for a vintage Stanley. It's smooth to operate, and nice to look at, but it's nearly as heavy as my Stanley #6.

[Chris Hachet]

My issue with the new planes is the weight. They are much heavier than their antique counterparts. Occasionally, a heavier plane is an advantage but I'd much prefer lighter. It's like comparing a truck to a sports car. Which is better? Depends on what you want to do.

I'll gladly trade my Wood River #4 for a vintage Stanley. It's smooth to operate, and nice to look at, but it's nearly as heavy as my Stanley #6.

The vintage Stanley planes are very under rated.

[Patrick Chase]

My issue with the new planes is the weight. They are much heavier than their antique counterparts. Occasionally, a heavier plane is an advantage but I'd much prefer lighter. It's like comparing a truck to a sports car. Which is better? Depends on what you want to do.

I'll gladly trade my Wood River #4 for a vintage Stanley. It's smooth to operate, and nice to look at, but it's nearly as heavy as my Stanley #6.

Yep, Rob Cosman (who reportedly designed the WRs) clearly subscribes to the "heavier is better" school. I have a #3 and a #5, and I find both of them to be a bit...um...obese. Others have the opposite reaction though.

[Patrick Chase]

The vintage Stanley planes are very under rated.

Particularly the Bailey-pattern ones. Bed Rocks on the other hand are highly over-rated IMO.

[steven c newman]

There are not just the Stanley ones out there. Millers Falls made a very good jack plane. Called a No.14

Sargent made quite a few excellent jack planes as well......VBM and Auto-set

Ohio and Union planes were so good...Stanley had to go and buy them out, twas cutting into Stanley's sales...

I might post a photo or two, just to show what styles to look for.

[Wade Holloway]

Wow, thanks guys for all of the advice. I think my head is kind of spinning right now. I do have a couple of planes already. I have LV #7 Joiner and a Woodriver #4 Smoother and a couple of block planes. I am actually going to a LN Hand Tool Event next week in Covington, so I will get to play with a few of them there.

I had forgot about Doud Tools, have heard great things about them.

The main reason I was looking for one that was already cleaned up and ready to use is that I am not to sure that I would know what to do and how to do it at this point. I have done a lot of wood working in the past but really have just got into the hand tool wood working lately. You would think that using hand tools would be cheaper but it is not. :) So I am slowly working and building my collection if you know what I mean.

Thanks again guys for all the advice you have so freely given, it is really appreciated.

[Chris Hachet]

There are not just the Stanley ones out there. Millers Falls made a very good jack plane. Called a No.14

Sargent made quite a few excellent jack planes as well......VBM and Auto-set

Ohio and Union planes were so good...Stanley had to go and buy them out, twas cutting into Stanley's sales...

I might post a photo or two, just to show what styles to look for.


I am just starting to appreciate how good many of those off brand planes really were/are.

[Chris Hachet]

Yep, Rob Cosman (who reportedly designed the WRs) clearly subscribes to the "heavier is better" school. I have a #3 and a #5, and I find both of them to be a bit...um...obese. Others have the opposite reaction though.

One of the reasons I really enjoy wood planes for extended planing sessions.

[Chris Hachet]

Wow, thanks guys for all of the advice. I think my head is kind of spinning right now. I do have a couple of planes already. I have LV #7 Joiner and a Woodriver #4 Smoother and a couple of block planes. I am actually going to a LN Hand Tool Event next week in Covington, so I will get to play with a few of them there.

I had forgot about Doud Tools, have heard great things about them.

The main reason I was looking for one that was already cleaned up and ready to use is that I am not to sure that I would know what to do and how to do it at this point. I have done a lot of wood working in the past but really have just got into the hand tool wood working lately. You would think that using hand tools would be cheaper but it is not. :) So I am slowly working and building my collection if you know what I mean.

Thanks again guys for all the advice you have so freely given, it is really appreciated.

Just a thought....you already have two other useable planes. Get a cheap mutt and play with it, tune it up, try to restore it. Even if you destroy it in the process (difficult unless you do something stupid) your only out twenty five bucks. Much cheaper than taking a class on restoring planes at a woodworking school for a couple hundred bucks...

[Terry Beadle]

I recommend : http://jonzimmersantiquetools.com/
I've bought some planes from him and they are all keepers. Some times a little pricy but most times competitive for sure.
He doesn't sell any losers IMO.

Located in Portland Oregon.

[steven c newman]

Abandon all hope, once you start down this slippery slope..
.333034
And a few Jacks..
333035
Betchya can't buy just one......heheheheh..

[lowell holmes]

You might even consider an old wooden jack plane, although in that case (unless you know what you're looking for) you REALLY need to buy from a reliable source.

There's a certain vibe one gets from using an old, well-used tool, and woodies amplify that feeling by quite a bit. For metal planes, and if cost wasn't a factor, then I'd rather have an LV all day long. - but I MUCH prefer my woodies, when everything is set right & when I'm not in a hurry.


You can even get new ones, from companies like Old Street tool, (Clark & Williams) HNT Gordon, ECE, Ulmia, etc. I'm VERY fond of the ECE Primus planes. Still, they don't have the vibe of something that's actually been making furniture for the past 200 years. :)

Are Old Street selling planes now? Their site still indicates they are not taking new orders. If they open up, I will probably order one.

[Archie England]

Abandon all hope, once you start down this slippery slope..
.333034
And a few Jacks..
333035
Betchya can't buy just one......heheheheh..

Yep, that's the slope I'm on, too! Great "assortment" of "assembled" and "gathered" planes--did I successfully avoid using "collection"?

[Jim Koepke]

Yep, that's the slope I'm on, too! Great "assortment" of "assembled" and "gathered" planes--did I successfully avoid using "collection"?

The proper term is accumulation for us noncollectors.

I try to resist, but sometimes I fall off my wagon in to a pile of rust.

Haven't been kicking myself as much lately for not picking up the various tools. But sometimes a lay awake wondering why I didn't by those chisels that were only $1 a piece.

jtk

[Allan Speers]

The proper term is accumulation for us noncollectors.

I try to resist, but sometimes I fall off my wagon in to a pile of rust.

Haven't been kicking myself as much lately for not picking up the various tools. But sometimes a lay awake wondering why I didn't by those chisels that were only $1 a piece.

jtk


No, no - the proper term is "spares."

I think I have about a dozen Bailey #4's. (I swear.) Chances are pretty good that I won't run out any time soon! :)

[Archie England]

No, no - the proper term is "spares."

I think I have about a dozen Bailey #4's. (I swear.) Chances are pretty good that I won't run out any time soon! :)

Yes, I passed double redundancy quite a while back.....