Newbie: which router table and lift?

[Brian Sommers]

I have the Dewalt DW618PK router.

I want to get a router table and a router lift for it.

I found the bosch RA1181
but I'm leaning toward the Kreg PRS2100 with the PRS3000 lift. My question is, how easy is it to take the router in and out of the table and lift? In case I want to use it with the plunger above board? Will this get old? Is this a pain in the rear?

Then I thought, maybe of keeping my dewalt router as my above the board router and getting the Bosch RA1181 with the 1617EVS router and RA1165 and then keeping this as my permanent router table setup.
It would be used for relative light work, round overs and for making frames. The only thing I don't like about this, is I miss my precision router lift.

But, I'm not sure how much I really need precision lift? I want to make small decorative boxes and signs and small bedside and chair side tables. Maybe the Kreg setup is over kill.

Any advice/guidance?

[John Grace]

Bosch is alright for rougher work, look at an incra fence and jessem lift if you're going to do a lot and want precision

[Marty Tippin]

It's more trouble than it's worth to take the router out of the lift - you'll quickly find you want a dedicated motor for the lift and a separate router for handheld use. For the Kreg lift, it's a matter of loosening a couple of set screws, but the spacer blocks that adapt to the router motor will slide out also, and putting them back in with the motor is difficult unless you take the lift out and turn it over.

[Mike Cutler]

I want to get a router table and a router lift for it.

My question is, how easy is it to take the router in and out of the table and lift? In case I want to use it with the plunger above board? Will this get old? Is this a pain in the rear?

It will get old very quickly, and you'll end up buying a dedicated router for installation.

It would be used for relative light work, round overs and for making frames. The only thing I don't like about this, is I miss my precision router lift.

You might start out with relatively light work, but once you realize how much functionality you have, you're scope in work will increase. Guaranteed. ;)

But, I'm not sure how much I really need precision lift? I want to make small decorative boxes and signs and small bedside and chair side tables. Maybe the Kreg setup is over kill.

Build this one time and possibly consider the Bench Dog CI top. Additionally, I would buy 3HP Porter Cable motor for it.
I don't personally believe it is possible to have to much precision in a router lift setup. You want ease of repetition, and the precision to return to a setting as accurately as possible. The more control you have, the finer the quality of work you will do. I could easily see spending upward of $600-700.00 on this setup.( Lift, Motor, table top.)

[Jim Becker]

It's more trouble than it's worth to take the router out of the lift - you'll quickly find you want a dedicated motor for the lift and a separate router for handheld use.

I honestly have to agree with this. Having a dedicated router motor for the table is really the best long-term solution. And do remember that the DW618 is not going to be the best for swinging "large" bits...you'll want a beefier 15 amp, variable/multi speed router for that if you intend to do panel raising, etc. You can sometimes buy them "motor only" without bases to save some money. I use a PC 7518 for this and it lives in the router table. I use the BenchDog cast iron top and their lift.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

After using a cheap aluminum tabletop router table for years, I built Norm's version 2 router table. I have a PC router I was removing and reinstalling as need required. I bought a Woodpecker PRL-V2 router lift and installed a PC 7518 motor in it. That motor lives in the table. I change bits above the table. I kept my original PC router for use outside the table.

[glenn bradley]

It is not just taking the motor out and putting it back. You want the bit perpendicular to the table and centered in the opening. I did not find this something I could achieve without a decent effort even when I knew it was semi-permanent. I also don't favor spending as much as one might to get a decent table and lift and then fall short on the motor. I would save your pennies for a bit longer and get a large dedicated motor and a lift that will hold it. that being said, it is always easier spending someone else's money. However, this is the advice I received years ago and after ignoring a few other suggestions and paying the price; I listened. Milwaukee 5625 and a Woodpecker PRL-v1 . . . Never been sorry ;-)

[Chris Hachet]

Bosch is alright for rougher work, look at an incra fence and jessem lift if you're going to do a lot and want precision

Incra works much better. I Swing a porter cable Router in mine and have zero issues with frequent use. You will not be sorry...

I would build my own router table actually.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Incra works much better. I Swing a porter cable Router in mine and have zero issues with frequent use. You will not be sorry...

I would build my own router table actually.

Just to ease the confusion, Incra does not make a lift. Incra modifies the Woodpeckers PRLv2 and the Jessem Mast-R-Lift II with their own insert plate and magnetic reducer rings. The lifts, or"guts" under the table, are the same respectively. Also, the Kreg lift is just a re-badged Woodpeckers PRLv2.

The main advantage of the Jessem (Incra/Jessem) is that the lift is designed to take various different sized router motors right out of the box. Your Bosch is one of them. Then when you upgrade (and you will) you will not need to by different sized pads. The Woodpeckers and Bench Dog may require pads/bushings to fit a smaller router - but these are both super solid.

Whatever lift you get you will be happy.

And as Glenn stated: definitely worth saving for a dedicated motor. Either Milwaukee 5625 or Porter Cable 7518.

[Marty Tippin]

I'd also suggest checking Craigslist for used PC 7518 routers - I found mine there in like-new condition for about $100 less than retail.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Much to say, very little time to say it.... I may have to leave qiuckly

1. I love my jessem lift, but, the inserts are more expensive than the Woodpeckers.
2. I love my Bosch 1617, but, I recently wished that I had a more powerful router to do raised panel doors. My current setup was expensive, but, if i want to upgrade to something more powerful, then I need to completely start over; new lift and a new router. Consider that.
3. yes, annoying to have to swap out the motor.

[Ole Anderson]

Plenty of recommendations for the router, lift and top, but next comes the bottom that it all sits on, and dust collection will be your next goal. Commercially, not too much out there with dust collection and bit storage in mind. Norm's seems to be the most popular, lots of folks design their own version of Norm's table or something from scratch. They do make a nice shop project. I did mine from a Wood magazine cover feature now available as an on-line plan: http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/routing/free-tilt-top-router-table-plan/ with some modifications of course. Excellent dust collection.

[Mike Henderson]

I put my router into one wing of my table saw because when I did it, I had a very small shop and didn't have room for a dedicated router table. I also use a 2 1/4 HP router. The problem with a router in your table saw wing is that when you need to cut another piece of wood, you have to tear down your router setup - then maybe go through the setup again to route that piece of wood you just cut.

One day I'm going to build a dedicated router table and put a big router into it.

But to answer one of your questions - you will get sick, very quickly, of taking the router out of the table and putting it back in. Get a dedicated router motor for your table.

If you start with a smaller router - say a 2 1/4 HP router - and then decide to go bigger, you can sell the lift and get a decent amount of your money back. You'll almost certainly keep the router that you used to have in the table. You'll put a commonly used bit in it and leave it dedicated to that function.

Mike

[Ben Rivel]

IMO the best and most stable router table setup is the Benchdog cast iron ProMaxRT with either a Benchdog cast iron topped ProLift router lift or the Incra Mast-R-Lift II from Rockler (which will fit the Bechdog table). Load it up with the every popular Porter Cable 7518 3.25HP router, add a good fence like the Benchdog ProFence and set it all on a steel frame like the Benchdog ProStand and youre rock solid.

[Daniel O'Neill]

I put my router into one wing of my table saw because when I did it, I had a very small shop and didn't have room for a dedicated router table. I also use a 2 1/4 HP router. The problem with a router in your table saw wing is that when you need to cut another piece of wood, you have to tear down your router setup - then maybe go through the setup again to route that piece of wood you just cut.

One day I'm going to build a dedicated router table and put a big router into it.

But to answer one of your questions - you will get sick, very quickly, of taking the router out of the table and putting it back in. Get a dedicated router motor for your table.

If you start with a smaller router - say a 2 1/4 HP router - and then decide to go bigger, you can sell the lift and get a decent amount of your money back. You'll almost certainly keep the router that you used to have in the table. You'll put a commonly used bit in it and leave it dedicated to that function.

Mike

Mike,
I was thinking of doing this. Is it too challenging to take the bit out? I'm in a 1 car garage and adding things is beginning to be a huge challenge so I was hoping to save space with the tablesaw router table combo.
Thanks for the input
Daniel

[Brian Sommers]

Well i'm not sure if I have enough for a room for a dedicated router table like most have. I don't have room to put it on the end of my tablesaw either. So I'm not quite sure what to do right now. I'm leaning on getting the incra lift and making my own table.

[Prashun Patel]

If you have a hankering to make your own table, do it.
Lots of people do just that and report that it's the best thing they did and that it's better than a commercial table. So, don't feel like you're skimping by doing that.

Buying the lift is a good move IMHO. Get a good one and a good router motor with a remote variable speed switch.

You can always upgrade your fence and router table to one with more bells and whistles as you wish later.

If you're looking at your router for joinery, you'll want to think twice about your fence system.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike,
I was thinking of doing this. Is it too challenging to take the bit out? I'm in a 1 car garage and adding things is beginning to be a huge challenge so I was hoping to save space with the tablesaw router table combo.
Thanks for the input
Daniel
No, changing bits is exactly the same as if you had a router table. You crank the router up as high as it will go and use two wrenches too change the bit. Very easy.

Most people do not take the router out of the table to change the bit.

Mike

[Brian Sommers]

...If you're looking at your router for joinery, you'll want to think twice about your fence system.


I've got that covered with a straight edge jig for my table saw.

[Prashun Patel]

I wasn't speaking of jointing a straight edge; I was speaking more of dovetailing or box joints. Of course, these too can be done on the table saw!

[Brian Sommers]

I wasn't speaking of jointing a straight edge; I was speaking more of dovetailing or box joints. Of course, these too can be done on the table saw!

LOL, sorry, yeah.. like you said, will be doing that on the TS as well. I plan on getting the Incra box jig for that. I want to make lots of boxes.

[Prashun Patel]

"I want to make lots of boxes".

The plot thickens...

If you want to crank boxes out, then you might consider the Incra LS Positioner fence for your router table. It will allow you to do box joints and dovetails as well. I'm not saying it's the only (and certainly NOT the cheapest) game in town. However, it's a router fence designed for joinery. I would at least have a look. For the price of a router fence and a box joint jig, you may find this fence to be appealing.

This fence has a footprint the size of Sasquatch, so caveat emptor...

[Brian Sommers]

you mean this? http://www.amazon.com/Incra-LS17SYS-Positioner-Pro-II-Joinery/dp/B000VTPV6S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456867115&sr=8-1&keywords=incra+ls+positioner+fence

[Brian W Evans]

I 100% agree that you need a dedicated motor and a good lift. A few years back I bought the Benchdog cast iron top, Woodpeckers PRL v2 lift, a Porter Cable 7518 motor, and a Woodpeckers super fence. I got a Benchdog procabinet on clearance somewhere as well. This is my dream router table setup and definitely cost a lot, but I have never once regretted it. A router is a hugely versatile tool and using it in a table makes things safer, easier, and more accurate.

You don't have to go with something as high-end as my setup but don't skimp on the lift or the table. New motors can be added later, a decent fence can be made, and having multiple routers is never a problem - your old router will never go to waste. If you want to make boxes or do other fine work, stability is really important - hence the good table and lift.

Good luck with your decision.

[Wade Lippman]

Getting anything but a 3.5hp router (PC or Milwaukee) and a good lift is foolish. You will upgrade later and waste money; get them now.
You are a wood worker. Make your own table and fence. I have a Woodpecker fence, but only because I found it on CL for almost nothing.

[glenn bradley]

The thread has wandered a bit off the road. You state you are a newbie and ask about a couple of small bench-top style tables. forgive the responses about building your own or going with something more substantial. We mean well. Many of us have been through several iterations at greater expense and experienced greater frustration than we might have if we hadn't taken baby steps. I know for myself I sometimes forget that there are shops that do just fine with a smaller tool; a 9" bench-top drill press, a 4" jointer, etc. Our suggestions for larger or more involved systems is not really an attempt to spend your money. If you will end up there eventually, we are just trying to save you from wasting your money along the way in the manner that we might have ;-)


I was hoping to save space with the tablesaw router table combo.


Well i'm not sure if I have enough for a room for a dedicated router table like most have.

I have a bit of a hybrid situation. I started with a router table wing attached to a contractor saw. This really only saved about two square feet of floor space but, space is space ;-)

At about the time I was wishing for more 'table' in my router table, I moved to a cabinet saw. When I moved to a cabinet saw I got back all the room wasted by the contractor saw format. I put this space to use by expanding the router wing size. When the design challenge became support I realized that the router top took up the room it took up whether there was a cabinet below it of not.

Ten years ago I built this basic router table/cabinet.

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In this current pic it is attached to my Saw Stop PCS (it has been through 3 saws) so the whole assembly looks rather large (or small depending on your viewpoint). The entire top surface can be used for either tool. Probably not the exact answer you are looking for but, it may prevent you from "mis-spending" by trying to "save" money.

Look at what you might spend to get 60% of the way to what you are really after. Now subtract that from the cost of going a bit further down the 'upgrade' road that many of us have traveled. Divide the resulting amount over the next 10 to 15 years and it isn't all that much.

Over the years my workflow has morphed so that I rarely find one setup in the way of the other. This problem is mostly noticed when I am winging it through an ad-hoc build of some sort.

[Ellen Benkin]

I have the Rockler table and lift. I'm a hobbyist and these meet my needs. They are probably not enough if you are going to do heavy work. For the table I would recommend a Porter Cable router. Everyone make accessories that fit the PC. I rarely take the router out of the table. I did it a couple of years ago and it took me a long time to remember how to put it back. I have a separate router for hand held and plunge work. I also have a trim router for really light work. Good luck.

[Prashun Patel]

You are a wood worker. Make your own table and fence.

This is certainly a viable option, and I will not argue that you may be able to make a high quality table and fence yourself.

What i *will* argue is the popular insinuation here @ SMC that commercial tables and fences are as a rule inferior in function or quality to shop built ones (or more sinister, that they are morally inferior). I build plenty of stuff, but purchased a fence/table system and I am every bit as happy with it as the diy'ers are with theirs. The FACT is that there are good options both ways.


Brian, yes, I was talking about that the Incra LS Positioner you linked to.

[Sam Murdoch]

OK - I need to bookmark this thread. Have been putting this project on hold for tooooooo long. Keep getting side tracked by the idea of buying a small shaper instead. Have lots of router bits AND shaper bits but no good table solution these days. Very very limiting. Been doing the router in the TS outfeed table thing. Very aggravating set up though effective enough after the aggravation - UNTIL - I need to make adjustments or change the bits. :mad: This YOU ALL KNOW :D

[Kevin Groenke]

I would strongly suggest that NOBODY buy the BenchDog ProLift. The acme threads for elevation adjustment cast into the aluminum housing fail over time. Ours failed three times, the first time BenchDog/Rockler replaced the parts, the second time they sold us the parts, the third time I replaced with an Incra Mast-R-Lift. This is with a PC 7518 motor under a BenchDog cast iron top.

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[Don Sundberg]

I would strongly suggest that NOBODY buy the BenchDog ProLift. The acme threads for elevation adjustment cast into the aluminum housing fail over time. Ours failed three times, the first time BenchDog/Rockler replaced the parts, the second time they sold us the parts, the third time I replaced with an Incra Mast-R-Lift. This is with a PC 7518 motor under a BenchDog cast iron top.

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Good to know. Aluminum is not a good long term wear surface unless properly lubricated and preferably hard anodized.
Thanks!

[Bill McNiel]

After having built and used a wide variety of setups over the years I now have a combo that works very well for me. Master Lift ll, Incra Clean Sweep inserts (these are expensive but really good), Incra Positioner, PC 7518 all mounted in my TS extension. Cannot imagine being happier unless I really expand my shop and have significantly more room.

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[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I would strongly suggest that NOBODY buy the BenchDog ProLift. The acme threads for elevation adjustment cast into the aluminum housing fail over time. Ours failed three times, the first time BenchDog/Rockler replaced the parts, the second time they sold us the parts, the third time I replaced with an Incra Mast-R-Lift. This is with a PC 7518 motor under a BenchDog cast iron top.

The Bench Dog used to be cast iron.

[Ed Rarick]

You don't need a lift if you get the Sommerfeld Router Table system. Watch his videos on YouTube. I have had the system for two years now and love it every time I use it. It is far superior to my previous router setups. My neighbor saw the system and bought his own. My log furniture buddies saw my system and bought their own. It is a very well thought out system.

[Marcus Waddell]

Hey all,
Hate to revive a (2yr) old thread, but it seemed the most relevant to my question. Fairly certain I'm going to build my own router table and add Incra's LS super system to it. As far a router lift, people clearly like the Incra/JessEm Mast-R-lift II. Before I cut the hole in the table top...has anyone tried the Rockler Pro Lift with the "pop-out" rings? It would seem it's nearly the same thing as the JessEm/Inca lift, but has the ability to lift faster with the extra gear. I welcome thoughts and opinions on the two setups. Thanks.