Bandsaw question

[Paul Williams]

It is time to upgrade my 12 inch Sears bandsaw. Is there a difference in strength, rigidity, or dampening between a cast iron frame and a steal bar stock frame?
I was looking at the Rikon 10-25 which is a good size for my use. There were some things I didn't like about the guides and use of smaller blades vs the re-saw blades that they tend to talk about for this type of saw. I noticed the relatively new Jet 14 inch saw with a taller frame so you don't have to add a riser block. It looked good to me. Today I noticed that Rikon has announced a 10-326 that may address some of my concerns about their saw. So any experience with either saw, and is the frame material and design a consideration or are they equals?

[david privett]

I thought that the grizzly 17 inch 30 year anniversary model is a very good buy when I got mine it was 845 plus free shipping . It is a good performer.

[Allan Speers]

I believe the correct answer is:

A cast iron frame is better at absorbing vibration, but a well-designed box-steel frame offers more rigidity. The ultimate is a HUGE CI frame, but those are super-heavy and very expensive, so top-end saws today typically compromise by using steel frames with cast iron wheels, trunnions, etc.

This probably won't help you choose a saw, though, esp not in your price range. Better to ask users about vibration, and also what's the maximum width blade they can get away with. (And what brand, as thickness plays a big part in the tension requirements.)

[Peter Blair]

When I got rid of my small bandsaw, it was an offshore one as well I bit the bullet and went with a Laguna, I got the 14" SUV 3HP motor with all the bells and whistles. I have a Oneway that will only swing 16" over the bed and I don't do any outboard turning. Love the saw even though I had to make a few minor mods to get it to suck but would highly recommend it.

[John Grace]

When I got rid of my small bandsaw, it was an offshore one as well I bit the bullet and went with a Laguna, I got the 14" SUV 3HP motor with all the bells and whistles. I have a Oneway that will only swing 16" over the bed and I don't do any outboard turning. Love the saw even though I had to make a few minor mods to get it to suck but would highly recommend it.

Do you ever find the 14" saw insufficient...or perhaps more to the point, how frequently/infrequently do you wish you'd bought one of the bigger versions? I have a pretty nice Grizzly 14" bandsaw which is more than adequate for all the flatwork I throw at it but I've found it lacking lately with bigger blanks (and yes...the blade is good and the saw is relatively well tuned). I'm guessing (read hoping) that within the next five years I'm able to afford a good Laguna saw...just want to be sure of the size before dropping that kind of money. But really want to know if my concerns are over the size of my current saw versus quality in machining/guides etc.

[Reed Gray]

Well, it never hurts to have bigger than you need, just in case you need it. Bowls over about 14 to 16 inch diameter are more of a specialty market. There are upgrades you can do for bandsaw guides. Carter is the name that comes to mind. I do prefer the ceramic guides on my Laguna to the bearing type. Other than that, cutting 12 inches high with a 1 hp motor is really minimal. Over 12 inches high, 2 hp+, 220 volt is better.

robo hippy

[John Grace]

Well, it never hurts to have bigger than you need, just in case you need it. Bowls over about 14 to 16 inch diameter are more of a specialty market. There are upgrades you can do for bandsaw guides. Carter is the name that comes to mind. I do prefer the ceramic guides on my Laguna to the bearing type. Other than that, cutting 12 inches high with a 1 hp motor is really minimal. Over 12 inches high, 2 hp+, 220 volt is better.

robo hippy

I'd love to swap-out my Grizzly's OEM guide set for the Carter version but unfortunately Carter doesn't make a kit for my saw...only their universal one. I'm just not a big fan of anything that says 'universal' on it...they do most things sort of OK but nothing in particularly well.

[J.D.Redwine]

Plus one on the Grizzly 17 inch 30 year anniversary model.

[Dick Strauss]

You can cut 30" bowl blanks on a 14" bandsaw+riser block as long as you don't need it more than 12" deep. It is also rare for most folks to need to trim hollow form blanks on the BS. If you do, a 12" tall HF is beyond the ability of most folks on the lathe. With a 1hp motor you need to cut a more slowly but the gullets on a 3-4 tpi blade can only carry so much sawdust before they get full and you run into trouble.

For wet wood cutting, the rolller guides are not preferred IMO. The sap and sawdust tend to get pressed between the roller guide bearings and blade which results in the gunk sticking to the blade. With the OEM variety or cool block style, the blade is slightly scraped every so often that limits the blade and tire buildup. I have run tests using the same wood on the same saw with the guide gaps set to the proper specs (only changing the roller guidesand std guides along with their respective gaps to the blade) and the difference is like night and day. With dry wood, it doesn't really make a difference but wet wood is another story.

Bigger is better if you can afford it but a well tuned 14" BS will work just fine for most folks. You don't always need a 20" swing lathe but it is nice to have just in case you want to turn something bigger and having the extra mass and power can make the whole process smoother and easier.

Take care,
Dick

[Pat Scott]

For wet wood cutting, the rolller guides are not preferred IMO.

I agree completely and was just about to say the same thing. I spent a hundred or two bucks to upgrade a 14" BS with the Carter roller guides over the original cool block style guides. What a mistake that was for cutting wet blanks. Just like Dick says, the guides will build up with gunk. I had thrown the old guides away once I put on the Carters, and wished I had kept them so I could put them back.

My 14" BS was an old model Rockwell (Delta clone) that I inherited from my Dad. I put a riser kit on it, new guides, tension spring, link belt, and almost every other upgrade I could. I planned on making it my dedicated wet bowl blank BS. It could now cut 12" resaw, but it struggled and didn't do it very well because the motor was only 3/4 or 1 hp (I think it originally came from the manufacturer with a 1/2 hp motor and my Dad had upgraded it). Cutting 12" of wet wood is tough to do, and the little saw would scoot around on the floor as I was cutting - not good. That little motor stalled out quite frequently as well. And I could never get the blade tension tight enough.

So I sold it and bit the bullet and bought a big Italian made Agazzani 20" BS with 4.8 hp motor. Big, heavy, cast iron frame. Way more saw than I need, but I didn't want to spend that much money and some day wish or need something bigger. It hurt initially, but I've never looked back and never wished for anything else. That big saw runs so smooth, and it doesn't care how big of piece I'm cutting, it slices through it like sliced bread. I'm in the camp that says bigger is sure nice! In hindsight, a 16" or 17" saw would do what I want also. I've only cut thicker than 16" a couple of times, and those are the times I was glad I went bigger.

By the way, I looked at the Laguna but I got the Agazzani for a couple hundred less than the Laguna. Also the Agazzani has 2 dust ports and the Laguna only has 1. The Laguna does have their Laguna ceramic guides which are nice, but I can buy a kit to upgrade my roller guides to Laguna ceramic if I want. I know I said roller guides build up with gunk, but for some reason I don't have that problem with the roller guides on my Agazzani like I did the Carter roller guides on my smaller saw.

[Paul Williams]

Thanks for the input, and I am still interested in more if others would like to weigh in. While I firmly believe that bigger is better, I turn on a Delta 46-460 midi. The power and table size of my Sears 12" bandsaw has never been a problem. The 6 inch cutting height is just a little too short for my blanks. At my age I don't see getting into large blanks that I can not lift, so a really large lathe is not in the future. There is a wood working show in town this coming weekend. I should be able to get a closer look at several saws and perhaps even find a deal.

[Roger Chandler]

I have used a number of bandsaws over the years.....either in my own shop or a friends shop. I currently have two bandsaws, one an 18" Jet and the other a Grizzly G0555LX. The G0555LX has cast iron, computer balanced wheels, ribbed belt for power transmission, and a strong 1 hp motor. I have used this saw for a couple of years now, and with a good blade like the Highland Hardware Woodturners blade, that thing does a super job. Most of the time I do not even bother going to my big Jet bandsaw, as with the riser block the G0555LX will cut 12" height and of course is a 14" class saw.

It does have Carter style premium bearings top and bottom, but I have never had that to be problematic.....I just clean them occasionally when build up occurs with wet wood, same with the rubber tires on the wheels. The detensioning system on this saw is the best I have ever used on a 14" class saw. The thing is so smooth and resaws very accurately. Of course, I am a stickler for setting up and tuning my equipment for optimal performance.

The price is reasonable, for this unit, so do your homework, and make sure you get a saw that has the cast iron wheels, and other features you want, and stay away from the cast aluminum wheels.....they do not have as much torque in the cut as the cast iron.

If you want to go big, then the G0636X is a 17" class saw, but has high end features designed to compete with the big European saws that cost a lot more. It has a 16" resaw height, and loaded with features for around $2500. If you want an even bigger saw with 5 hp motor and a 19" height resaw capacity then the G0701 is a beast and will power through most anything you put into it. It is priced at $3450. and is heavy duty and made for production work. If I ever decided to upgrade this is probably the saw I would want, but my 14" G0555LX does a really super job, and I am very happy with it!

[Terry Hatfield]

I believe the correct answer is:

A cast iron frame is better at absorbing vibration, but a well-designed box-steel frame offers more rigidity. The ultimate is a HUGE CI frame, but those are super-heavy and very expensive, so top-end saws today typically compromise by using steel frames with cast iron wheels, trunnions, etc.

This probably won't help you choose a saw, though, esp not in your price range. Better to ask users about vibration, and also what's the maximum width blade they can get away with. (And what brand, as thickness plays a big part in the tension requirements.)

Good advice here. I had a Grizzly 14" and upgraded to the Grizzly 17" and there is no comparison in my opinion. The 17" is all the band saw that I will ever need.

[Peter Blair]

John, the 14" is plenty for me. it will cut 14" under the guard as well as 14" to the left of the blade. I always cut my blanks on the right side of the blade and with a 16" swing on my lather it works excellent!

Do you ever find the 14" saw insufficient...or perhaps more to the point, how frequently/infrequently do you wish you'd bought one of the bigger versions? I have a pretty nice Grizzly 14" bandsaw which is more than adequate for all the flatwork I throw at it but I've found it lacking lately with bigger blanks (and yes...the blade is good and the saw is relatively well tuned). I'm guessing (read hoping) that within the next five years I'm able to afford a good Laguna saw...just want to be sure of the size before dropping that kind of money. But really want to know if my concerns are over the size of my current saw versus quality in machining/guides etc.

[Reed Gray]

Well, along with the dust ports not sucking, a 'round 2 it' project will be more table space add ons for the bandsaw. Outfeed, and to the right of the blade....

robo hippy

[Paul Williams]

Reed, Looking forward to seeing what you do for a table on the right side. I have thought of doing that and supporting it with legs from the floor. For one blank I just sawed to the middle of a 3/4 inch plywood and clamped the left edge to the table. Not well balanced and a little loose on my 12 inch saw, but helped hold the blank.

[Reed Gray]

Well, thoughts have been around a one piece that will fit around 3 sides of the table, and covered with formica/laminate for ease of slicing wet wood across, or maybe a 2 piece as in out feed, and side table. If my saw wasn't up on wheels, it would be easy to have a permanent station and built up table. Need to have some thing portable. Probably have to build about 5 versions before I get it right. Any ideas from the rest of you all out there?? Probably another thread in the future...

robo hippy

[Ray Bell]

I'd love to swap-out my Grizzly's OEM guide set for the Carter version but unfortunately Carter doesn't make a kit for my saw...only their universal one. I'm just not a big fan of anything that says 'universal' on it...they do most things sort of OK but nothing in particularly well.

I'm with you John. I much preferred the block guides on my 14" Delta over the bearing guides on my 19" Grizzly. Would love to find a Carter set that would fit.

[Peter Blair]

Reed and others, I am not sure how much help this is but here is a bad shot of my extensions. I just used some plywood I had laying around and applied a finish to help the wood slide. I did have to cut out a slot for the right side to allow my log mill and other tools to run past the edge of the table. At the back of the table groove on the left side I cut a small hole to allow me to get dust out of the groove.
My saw is located next to a work table which allowed me to rest it on that and in addition I use a bench vise to clamp the whole thing in place. the corner at the right front side has a small section of angle aluminim that I screwed to that table to allow the extension to rest on it.
332930
If anyone is interested in more photos I could take some today and post later.

[Reed Gray]

Nice Pete! That would make a good short clip on You Tube, or an article for the AAW Magazine or More Woodturning. Half the reason for posting here, at least for me is to see how others solve problems I have, well, we all have to greater or lesser degrees.

robo hippy