Another 14" Laguna vs PM bandsaw thread - your thoughts?

[Mike Dowell]

I've got a Grizzly G055(I think) 14" band saw at my shop. It was a recommendation from you all here! - and my wife wants it for her shop:eek:. This presents a unique opportunity for me, and that opportunity is called UPGRADE! WOO HOO!

Actually, the Grizz is a pretty decent saw, and although it is overall a good value, it is clear that it's a "value" machine. Saws really well, but all the adjustments and such are not the way I would have designed them...

So, I don't really do much re-sawing, and I'm looking for something that runs 120v. Right about the $1000 range, give or take. I own a PM2000 Table saw which I absolutely adore, and therefore, my natural proclivity is to just grab the 14" PM shown here http://www.woodcraft.com/product/824315/powermatic-14-bandsaw-model-pwbs14cs.aspx.

However... I'm looking around and seeing that just because PM makes an amazing table saw, doesn't mean they can't be outdone; Enter the Laguna 14/12 http://www.woodcraft.com/product/854323/laguna-1412-bandsaw.aspx. At first glance, to be honest, the Laguna seems like a very superior saw to the PM, at least in terms of features, like the 12" resaw capacity right out of the box. Or, perhaps I'm completely leaving a machine out of my equation - but only you all would know.

I'd like some opinions on these machines. I would imagine I could be happy with either, but they are very different machines in their own rights. The Laguna has "ceramic" guides, where the PM has bearing guides which is what I am used to. So, before I sound like a fool asking questions that reveal my ineptitude, I'd be interested to get some feedback here.

So, in recap:

-14" bandsaw
-preferable 120v
-resaw is not primary use but will be done from time to time
-ease of changing blades and adjusting settings is a MUST

[Andrew Hughes]

I have the same Powermatic bandsaw.So I am going Gold.Plus it's a good saw.My resaw bandsaw is a 20 inch.
I also think a 14 inch wheel bandsaw is good for resawing 6or 7 inches.I don't care how far he guides go up.6 or 7 inches that it.

[Earl McLain]

My first bandsaw was a Ridgid 14" clone. Put a riser on it and it was marginal. Ran across a great deal on an older Laguna 14 HD (Bulgarian), bought it with the intent of selling the Ridgid. Ended up taking the riser off the Ridgid and using it for what it's meant to do--and it's an acceptable machine. With a 2 hp Leeson (240 volt) and steel frame, the Laguna is a good saw for me and does a very good job resawing at least up to 8" (haven't needed anything wider so haven't tried it). I very much like the ceramic guide system--as a relative novice to woodworking they simply feel more intuitive and easier for me to dial in quickly.

While this has worked for me, if i had it to do over again--i'd have been more patient and spent a little more to make the "big saw" an 18" instead of a second 14". On several occasions it would have been very helpful to have the bigger throat. The 14" steel frame does resaw better than the C frame, but if it would have been 18" it would have added another dimension for the space it consumes. I mightn't have used it much, but for a few more inches of footprint there would have been added capability.

I know i've only touched on your request to compare two machines, but if i still had access to the original 14" i'd have to be thinking about the 18" (having done the twin 14's myself). Unfortunately, if you do go bigger--120v will probably not work.

earl

[Bryan Lisowski]

Next weekend PM is having a 10% off sale. Both are good and sure you would be happy with either. I know big help.

[Dave Borrelli]

I own both bandsaws. I purchased the Powermatic first, a few years ago. I use it mostly for detail and curve cutting. I usually keep a 1/4 in blade on it and at times move down to a 1/8 in or up to a 3/8 in blade depending on what I am doing. I wanted to do some re-sawing and saw the advantage of the steel frame European style saws (vs the cast Powermatic) for re-sawing so I purchased the Laguna 1412 this past October. I have a detailed review of the Laguna up on my YouTube channel if you care to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGW73rSvP8c
I love both saws as each does what I use them for a little better than the other. If you are going to be doing a substantial amount of re-sawing then the Laguna is the way to go. If not than the PM is better suited for curved and detailed cuts as the table is much higher. If I was forced to get rid of one and keep the other I would keep the Laguna but it would be a tough choice.

[Mike Dowell]

I have a detailed review of the Laguna up on my YouTube channel if you care to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGW73rSvP8c


That's funny, I actually watched your review last night before I even saw this reply here in the thread! Great review by the way.

It's a hard choice indeed. PM on sale next week, and Woodcraft has the Laguna on sale right now - for $987! That, and the fact that I've got a Woodcraft a little over an hour from here might push me into the Laguna zone. Buying tools is a horrible double edged sword. Lots of times I end up choosing not to choose because I can't decide. It was easy to choose my PM2000 table saw because it was either that or the Saw Stop, and oddly enough, the safety system in the Saw Stop was what turned me off! But, in the case of a bandsaw, so much to consider. The Euro steel frame over the tried and true cast C shape. Ceramic guides(which I hear wonderful things about) vs roller guides which I'm used to. Then you've got the fact that Laguna revamped the 14/12 and made the 14bx which has a few nice features on it, one of which is an extra 4" dust port. However, that model is $1400 which is at the very, very top of my budget, and I sort of feel like many here feel, in that a 14" Bandsaw is a 14" bandsaw. It's designed to perform general cutting duties well. If I really wanted to resaw a bunch, I'd be looking at a 17 or 20" saw instead. Much like every other decision in my life, I'm likely over-thinking this.

AHHHHH!

[Al Weber]

I don't own the PM but just purchased the Laguna. I needed a 120 v unit and the old Rikon 18" I had previously was not a high quality machine. I haven't fully assembled the Laguna yet but I have everything except the fence attached and I am impressed with the quality of the machine compared with my ex-Rikon. As soon as the weather warms a bit, I will finish assembly and start to align everything but I think this was a smart purchase based on my initial views.

[Bob Murphy]

Nice Laguna review.

[Dave Borrelli]

Thanks. Glad you guys enjoyed the review! Mike, I know it is a tough choice. I labor over new tool purchases the same way you are. I do a lot of online research (reviews, YouTube etc.). The Euro steel frame models became popular right after I purchased the Powermatic. I never regretted my purchase but became intrigued with the new style of bandsaw. I am on the East Coast as well (New Jersey) and this past June we had a major storm that provided me with an ample supply of some free lumber. When I got around to cutting it up in the Fall I just had my doubts that the Powermatic would be up to the task. I had a birthday coming up and the wife bought me the Laguna along with a Re-Saw King blade. I used a timberwolf blade to mill the logs and bring out the Re-Saw King for fine projects. I am so impressed with the power that the Laguna saw has. It tore through everything I fed it with ease. Throw a 1/4 in blade on it and is very accurate for detailed cuts. By the way the ceramic guides are a pure pleasure to work with. All that said I just could not bare to part with the Powermatic. None of this probably makes your choice any easier. Bottom line is both saws are high quality and I believe you will be thrilled to own either. Good Luck with your new bandsaw, whichever one it is.

On an interesting note....I frequent the Woodcraft in New Castle De.. About a month ago I asked them why they no longer had the Powermatic 14in bandsaw on display. The reply was that everyone was buying the Laguna's so that's what they have on display. Speaks volumes!

[Art Mann]

I own the Laguna 14/12 and my review would sound just like Dave Borrelli's.

[Mike Dowell]

Just bought the Laguna 14/12. Woodcraft was out of stock but will call me when it comes in. Got it for $987.30! I couldn't pass that deal up. Thank you all for weighing in.

[Dave Borrelli]

Congrats on your new bandsaw. You will love it. Assembly and set up are breeze. Let us know how you like it.

[Mike Heidrick]

Congrats Mike. Glad you got what you wanted.

If anyone else reads this looking for a 120V bandsaw, the 17" G0513ANV 2HP Grizzly will run on 120V and is $994 shipped to your shop. Why PM charges $1200 for that bandsaw escapes words.

[Mike Dowell]

I'll be back with my thoughts. Thank you all again!

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

This same debate is raging in my head. I was just told that the ceramic guides on the Laguna require carbon blades. Is this true? The powermatic is 10 percent off next weekend. I'm wondering if it plus the riser block would be a better purchase. There are a number of negative reviews about lagunas customer support. The Laguna is vastly superior in the color scheme department though. Argh. I can't decide.

[Art Mann]

The Laguna ceramic guides will work with whatever saw blade you choose. Someone provided you with erroneous information.

I have bearing guides on my other band saw and I like the ceramic guides much better. They are almost trivial to adjust. The bearing guides take more fiddling with to get them right.

[Dave Borrelli]

Exactly what Art said! Also, I believe they may have had support issues in the past but I think they are bending over backwards to change that image. I have found their support to be excellent. It's funny, as great as the Internet is, it has it's flaws. If some people had a problem (or a perceived one) with a company or an individual in the past others read it and keep on repeating it until it becomes gospel. I have seen it all over the web including great forums such as this one. People and companies can learn a lesson and change for the better.

[Mike Dowell]

Well, I've had the Laguna 1412 for a couple of weeks now. Overall quality seems higher than the Grizzly, and I do like the blade tensioning system and guides better than the Grizzly as well. I absolutely *hate* the fence system though. It seems very cheap and non-precise compared to the Grizzly which had a T style fence like my PM2000 TS has. This fence has a chrome rail, and you tighten the knob on the fence guide in order to lock it down. I can't really describe exactly how I feel about it, but I think the best way for me to put it into words is to say every time I lock the fence down, I have this overwhelming urge to check the fence to the miter gauge for square. Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me, most of this saw seems top-notch until you get to the fence. The grizzly fence is superior in every way.

The other thing that feels cheap on this machine is when I raise and lower the guide, once I lock it back down with the knob, the whole guide post/rail/tower/(not sure what it's called) moves a little. This is something else that makes me want to check the setup every time I change a setting. I feel like I need to check the guide setup for good measure, because it just seems unlikely that the actual position of the guides is in a perfect plane with the blade no matter how high or low I have it set - make sense?

So, I'm going to just run through a quick list of gripes and likes. I know one of you is going to smack my wrist, and I welcome the feedback.

Laguna 1412 -
Overall happiness with purchase - 8.7/10

Likes-
-Blade tensioning system
-Blade tension and Blade tracking windows
-Large table
-Ceramic guides
-Dust collection port location/effectiveness
-Amazing smooth curve cuts with 1/4" blade due to such a solid guide system
-Price - got it on sale at Woodcraft for $987.50 in DE which has N O S A L E S T A X ! ! ! ! ! (plus I picked it up myself and got to see the store)

Dislikes-
-Fence - the entire fence system
-No levelers on the feet(luckily didn't need them but feel it should have been standard)
-Slop in guide tower/rod/post

Well there you have it. An opinion from the weeds.

[chris gizmunt]

I'm also shopping around for 14" bandsaws and am wondering why a jet model was never a consideration? Are they viewed as being inferior to both PM and Laguna? They're in the same ballpark from a price respective...

[Mike Dowell]

*folks please correct me if I'm wrong* - Chris, JET is PM's value line. I try to prioritize tool funds with the idea of how much I will use them. Using that train of thought, I was going to go for the top of the bar with a band saw. When I break down and buy a planer and jointer, I will definitely look at JET because I think they have an "almost as good" line compared to the PM.

[chris gizmunt]

*folks please correct me if I'm wrong* - Chris, JET is PM's value line. I try to prioritize tool funds with the idea of how much I will use them. Using that train of thought, I was going to go for the top of the bar with a band saw. When I break down and buy a planer and jointer, I will definitely look at JET because I think they have an "almost as good" line compared to the PM.

Makes sense Mike. Though I never would have guessed it due to the rather narrow price gaps between the two lines. WC has the PM 14" C-frame listed for $1200 and a similar model Jet for $1000. But then again, it isn't really an apples to apples comparison as the jet has 12" resaw capacity and no fence while the PM is 6" resaw and a fence.
Regardless... Thanks for the info.