Cyclone Decisions....

[Marc Spagnuolo]

I will soon be upgrading my cyclone, thanks to Bill Pentz. Since he posts here, I would like to have some quick opinions (as much as I hate asking questions like this).
I am having difficulty deciding between Oneida, WoodSuckerII, and ClearVue. Obviously, fine dust and long term exposure are my concerns. So here is my situation:
I am fulltime, hobbiest gone pro. I am prepared to modify all of my fitting to 6" in order to get the best performance possible. Pretty much all the standard tools (PM66, 6" jointer, 20" planer, 16-32 belt sander, and mm16 bandsaw. I will be venting the exhaust outside with the unit inside. Any suggestions?

Thanks everyone!!!

[Roy Wall]

Well - I do know you'll need replacement air since your venting outside....I take it you don't use A/C in Pheonix???? Motors are rated continuous use at about 105*. So, if you're using A/C, you'll need that puppy inside!

[Marc Spagnuolo]

I will indeed be running this guy inside. And I do have AC. Well, I will in about a month or so. But my plan is to use the outside venting for the bulk of the year, when the big doors and windows are open. Once the AC is on, I will switch over to a filtered setup and close off the vent. I am hoping this idea works out. :)


But my real dilema is choosing which cyclone. I am leaning heavily toward clearvue at this time.

[Bill Pentz]

Marc,

I think this was just covered in our prior thread "Dust Collection - my latest two cents worth" on my 9/10/05 11:05 post.

All 2 hp or larger hobbyists cyclones make great "chip collectors", but for fine dust collection you have quite a bit more to do plus ensure you are delivering a real 800 CFM at 7" to 10" of pressure. Add the need to also have certified fine filters and the field narrows very quickly.

bill

[Jim Hinze]

I am having difficulty deciding between Oneida, WoodSuckerII, and ClearVue. Obviously, fine dust and long term exposure are my concerns. So here is my situation:


Marc,

Given your requirements and setup, you have only 2 reasonable choices, ClearVue and the WoodSucker][. To help support Bill, I'd say the ClearVue is your best bet... (and the best bet overall)

I have a 3hp double bag system now and am saving my pennies for a ClearVue later this year...

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I curious why you knocked Oneida off the list given their position in the industry and being dedicated to dust control in the small to mid-sized shop and having more options for sizing available.

[Ed Lang]

I ordered a ClearVue yesterday after looking and looking as well as talking or emailing many.

I could not find any negative press on Bill Pentz's design, the ClearVue, all others had it.

I also ordered the Wynn filters and smooth wall flex hose.

I have a contactor in mind and plan to run low voltage to each station for a start/stop switch. I am just not a wireless person but may change my mind before installing it.

I am also making my dust ports on all machines larger then the stock 4" I have now.

Good luck. It is a easy choice, it was just hard for me.

[Scott Coffelt]

I think all three would be good, I have a homemaid version myself based on the BP and Dust Eliminator design (let's leave it at that). I does a great job, I can tell you though if Onieda had what they have now back then I would have bought the Onieda Gorilla. I also understand the Grizzly looks like a good unit as well. Personally, I think you'll spend more on the others than you will on the big yellow boy.

Good Luck

[Allan Johanson]

Personally, I think you'll spend more on the others than you will on the big yellow boy.

Good Luck

...but remember that the ClearVue is much stronger than the 2HP Gorilla. At the very least it's in the 3HP Gorilla range. With that in mind the pricing comes out a little differently. ;)

Cheers,

Allan

[David Less]

Clearvue:

1. 5 hp Americam motor
2. Proven design, with countless hours of documented design and testing by a Woodworking engineer (Bill P.)
3. Great CFM for most shops (no need to worry about pressure losses, just install using S&D and common sence).
4. Delivered to your door less that $900.00

Seems to me like a no brainer.

Just my $.02

Davic

[Jim Hinze]

Jim, I curious why you knocked Oneida off the list given their position in the industry and being dedicated to dust control in the small to mid-sized shop and having more options for sizing available.

For overall performance as a fine dust separator, Pentz's design is on top (ClearVue), Woodsucker a close second, followed by Oneida.

Oneida is clearly the industry leader and the company that really made hobby shop cyclones common place, have more options for sizing, longer track record, etc. However, their design is not as efficent. That does not mean effective.... they get more dust being trapped by the filter than the others. That means overall less filter life, more frequent filter cleanings, etc. It's not just about moving sufficent CFM, but getting the dust out of the air prior to hitting the filter.

I guess it boils down to me beleiving in Bill's design, his research, his testing, etc. more so than advertising. I've also gravited toward the smaller company over the larger having been a small business owner.

Just out of curiosity, what's your sales comission %'age from Oneida???

[Jim Becker]

All three of these options are small businesses by the strictest definition of the word; two of them just happen to be smaller as they have a few employees rather than a few dozen. As to the efficiency issue...there will always be room for debate since it's largely subjective until an independent and qualitifed organization (not the designer...) performs scientific testing. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen. Please note that I am not saying one design is not more efficient; just that there is no authorative determination on that other than theory. There are also always approaches to improve performance no matter what the design and I believe all three of these entities have been and will continue to strive for whatever the "next level" happens to be. There are no losers here!

Edit:


Just out of curiosity, what's your sales comission %'age from Oneida???

With respect...zero. I've bought two systems as a customer of theirs over five years. (Upgrade due to a much larger shop) My point is that we all have opinions and none of us can unequivocally say that one system is "better" than another with regards to things like efficiency. I'd likely be perfectly happy with a ClearVue in my shop...but they didn't exsit when I made my purchase decision.

[Jim Hinze]

There are also always approaches to improve performance no matter what the design and I believe all three of these entities have been and will continue to strive for whatever the "next level" happens to be. There are no losers here!

Jim, I did not in any way imply that there were any loosers. In fact, I beleive I said they all worked and that one just emptied more dust into the filter... with the efficiencies of the filters (if they are what they advertise), this isn't an issue.

You asked why I chose the other 2 over oneida and I thought I explained my case fairly well. I'm sorry you chose to see it as an attack on Oneida.

BTW -- did you choose to ignore my quesiton?

[Jim Becker]

JBTW -- did you choose to ignore my quesiton?

No, I answered it.

---

And sorry...I'm having a crazy day today!

[Jim Hinze]

No, I answered it.

My apologies, I must have typed my reply as you were editing yours.

I beg to differ. I think clearly that one can say the Pentz design is more efficent... research, design, and testing have proven it.

Since Oneida is the leader, have them send Bill and eval unit for testing and lets measure the output of fine dust trapped in the filters. Bill has always been impartial in his testing... I know where I'd wager my $$$. If Oneida proves better, I'll buy the eval unit Bill used in testing.

So you have zero ties to Oneida beyond being a "paying" customer? I have it on good authority that your relationship somewhat different, but that's neither here nor there.

[Jim Becker]

So you have zero ties to Oneida beyond being a "paying" customer? I have it on good authority that your relationship somewhat different, but that's neither here nor there.

Your "good authority" would be very, very wrong...and I'd bet anything on that! Don't believe everything you hear... Enough of this, please.

[Jim O'Dell]

So that everyone knows I'm not trying to put anyone in his/her place here, this is said with a very soft voice...

I agree with Jim B. Please, let's tread softly here. (My pastor told me once that if you are pointing a finger at someone, you have 3 pointing right back at yourself, so I include myself in this) This forum has been void of the name calling that other sites have, and is the reason I enjoy my time here. Lets share information on product and woodworking, and ideas on how to do things better/differently, but we need to leave things that can be taken as antagonistc alone, or to private messages only. Thanks! Jim.