55° 4 1/2 - Lee Valley Custom or Lie Nielsen?

[Stew Hagerty]

Decisions decisions...
I'm in desperate need of a 55° Smoother. I've checked out both the venerable Lie Nielsen 4 1/2, and it truly is a thing of beauty.

But i have also been looking at Lee Valley's new Custom line. I put together a 4 1/2 with the 55° frog, PMV11 iron, low mushroom knob, & large Veritas tote. I'm certain it would be amazing.

Unfortunately I can't afford to buy both. So that leaves me stumped.

Naturally it's all personal preference. I use Oil Stones so I do love the PMV11 steel and, unlike some, I also like the more vertical Lee Valley totes. On the other hand, the Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 is a beast. It is totally rock solid.

I have no doubt this is going to go back and forth a lot, but i could really use some input from folks that have been using these planes. Naturally, since the Lee Valley Custom line is fairly new, there will be fewer users here. Anything useful would be very helpful.

[Jim Koepke]

This gets down to your personal style and what you already have.

Almost all of my planes are Stanley/Bailey style planes. To stay with that style, the few new planes added to my shop have been from Lie Nielsen.

That is of course a personal choice. By the same token, some folks like to mix it up in the shop and have planes from multiple makers.

If this were my choice to make, I might be swayed to try the Lee Valley custom plane. The flat top Bedrock design doesn't appeal to me.

In reality, they are both great planes able to do fine work and give generations of satisfaction.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Decisions decisions...
I'm in desperate need of a 55° Smoother. I've checked out both the venerable Lie Nielsen 4 1/2, and it truly is a thing of beauty.

But i have also been looking at Lee Valley's new Custom line. I put together a 4 1/2 with the 55° frog, PMV11 iron, low mushroom knob, & large Veritas tote. I'm certain it would be amazing.

Unfortunately I can't afford to buy both. So that leaves me stumped.

Naturally it's all personal preference. I use Oil Stones so I do love the PMV11 steel and, unlike some, I also like the more vertical Lee Valley totes. On the other hand, the Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 is a beast. It is totally rock solid.

I have no doubt this is going to go back and forth a lot, but i could really use some input from folks that have been using these planes. Naturally, since the Lee Valley Custom line is fairly new, there will be fewer users here. Anything useful would be very helpful.

I have LN #2, #8, and #10-1/2 planes as well as a bunch of Veritas custom planes including a #4-1/2 with a 55-deg frog.

IMO you can't go wrong either way, but I would personally choose the Veritas custom for a couple reasons:

First, mouth adjustment is a lot easier because it isn't coupled with depth adjustment. In Bed Rock planes like the L-N changing the mouth also changes the depth (this is so because the frog<->sole interface is sloped), so you end up iterating back and forth until you get the mouth you want at the intended projection. With Veritas planes (both the older ones and the new customs) you just set your projection and then set the mouth. Having an easily adjusted mouth is a plus if you're also messing about with cap iron sets. IMO this is a case where L-N's rigid devotion to "classic" designs hurts them.

Second, the Veritas offers more choices in terms of ergonomics (totes, knobs), blade materials, and bed angles.

[Zach Dillinger]

I've heard a rumor that Old Street Tool is nearing the end of their backlog and that they may be taking orders again soon... so you could add their small 55 deg smoother to your list of possible acquisitions... :)

[Stew Hagerty]

I have LN #2, #8, and #10-1/2 planes as well as a bunch of Veritas custom planes including a #4-1/2 with a 55-deg frog.

Patrick, please tell me about your setup and experience with the 4 1/2 Custom.

[Stew Hagerty]

By the way...
Rob & Tom please feel free to jump in. Anything you can specifically tell me about your plane would help greatly.

[lowell holmes]

I've heard a rumor that Old Street Tool is nearing the end of their backlog and that they may be taking orders again soon... so you could add their small 55 deg smoother to your list of possible acquisitions... :)

You know you just started a stampede. I may have to go there.

I tell you what, lets don't tell any one untill we get in line.

[Stew Hagerty]

You know you just started a stampede. I may have to go there.

I tell you what, lets don't tell any one untill we get in line.

Yeah, Old Street's high angle smoother is too small. I think I really want a 4 1/2 size.
Unless you all think that a 55° bed angle is better on a smaller plane.
I do already have the Lee Valley LA Block Plane with their tote & knob setup (love it!!!). And i have a 50° blade for it. It works well, but it's kind of small for larger projects.

[ken hatch]

Yeah, Old Street's high angle smoother is too small. I think I really want a 4 1/2 size.
Unless you all think that a 55° bed angle is better on a smaller plane.
I do already have the Lee Valley LA Block Plane with their tote & knob setup (love it!!!). And i have a 50° blade for it. It works well, but it's kind of small for larger projects.

Stew,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you posted you use oil stones to sharpen. LN no longer sells O-1 iron, only A-2. Without modification most non LN irons will not fit LN planes. Just a thought if you use oil stones to sharpen your plane irons.

BTW, I have several LN planes in need of O-1 iron including a 4 1/2. Sure is hard to find someone selling used or NOS LN O-1 iron.

ken

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you posted you use oil stones to sharpen. LN no longer sells O-1 iron, only A-2. Without modification most non LN irons will not fit LN planes. Just a thought if you use oil stones to sharpen your plane irons.

ken

Yeah I know Ken. That is a bit of a drawback, but i do have some A2 irons and I'm able to hone them nicely. It just takes a bit longer. Fortunately, A2 does keep an edge longer than O1 though. In case one gets really banged up, I have course, medium, & fine India stones and to do really major repairs i have a blue norton wheel in my variable speed grinder. But to your point. Yes, that is another point for the LV Custom.

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick, please tell me about your setup and experience with the 4 1/2 Custom.

I use it with the medium-size standard (upright) tote, medium knob, and PM-V11 blade. I also have 40, 45, and 55 deg frogs for it. Right now it has the 55 installed. Parts (blades, frogs, totes, knobs, adjusters) are interchangeable between all of the custom planes with 2-3/8 blades. When I say I "have XX deg frogs for it" what I actually mean is that they're in my parts pool for my collection of customs. I believe that L-Ns have similarly interchangeable HW.

Like all of the custom planes it's made to very high standards and "just works". The base was flat to within a mil, sides were flat and perpendicular, etc. There are a couple things to pay attention to though:

1. Like all metal planes (including my L-Ns) the frog has a small amount of rotational play relative to the bed. If you want to have the option of running a tight mouth then you'll want to partially loosen the frog ("partially" so that it will stay where you put it) and dial in the rotation to align the blade to the mouth. It takes about 5 minutes.

2. The custom line use a new-style "solid" cap iron with a low bevel angle just like L-N. If you want to use a close-set cap iron for tearout control (and you should) then you'll want to hone a higher secondary bevel at the very tip, maybe 0.5 mm high, and create a rounded-off transition into the primary bevel. It's worth it to take your time and get this step right. If your frog is at 55 deg then you'll probably want a 40-45 def secondary bevel on the cap iron.

As with all Veritas tools the blade took minimal work - just hone the bevel and ruler-trick the back on polishing stones and it's ready for business.

It's not the most beautiful or traditional plane around, though not as starkly utilitarian as the previous "East German Swimmer" design (I wonder if Rob regrets having said that by this point? Those were/are very good planes BTW). If tool aesthetics are your thing then it may not be for you.

[Derek Cohen]

H Stew

I cannot compare apples with apples, however I do have the LN #4 1/2 Anniversary (bronze), which came with a 50 degree frog, and I later added a 55 degree. I found the higher angle frog too much effort to push unless the sole was waxed. Then I began using the chipbreaker (which dates my transitions) and the 4 1/2, which did not get much use anyway, stayed on the shelf. Until I can find someone to trade a 55- for a 45 degree frog, it is likely to remain there.

I much prefer the LN #3 as a size for a high angle frog. This is a nimble plane and copes better with the extra resistance from the blade. One of the advantages of the higher frog is that you can fit a #4 handle, which better suits those with larger hands. Anyway, I purchased mine with the 55 degree frog. It was not high enough for our local woods, and went onto the shelf until I learned to use the chipbreaker, when it resurfaced. The combination of 55 degree frog and chipbreaker is not great. Too much of a good thing :). I tried the 50 degree frog since I could still use the #4 handle, but this was still a compromise by then as I was seeking a lower cutting angle for the cleaner surface it produces. Eventually I got a 45 degree frog and modified the #4 handle to fit. (If anyone is interested, I will show this). This is a great combination, and I love using this plane. I switch between the LN A2 blade and a Clifton O1 blade. The latter takes a great edge very quickly, but also loses it far sooner than the A2.

I have the Veritas/LV Custom #4. I'd rather have a #3, but LV have not produced one. A #3 can cover large expanses as well as a #4 1/2 - there are just more overlapping strokes. Anyway, the #4 was originally ordered with the 50 degree frog. The reason was that I believed that this would be a better all round angle, and had advised LV of this when asked my opinion prior to production. I decided to put my money where my mouth was. It could be used with the chipbreaker or not. As in life, our experiences modify our choices, and as my skills with the chipbreaker improved, I again was influenced by a lower cutting angle. I purchased a 42 degree frog (note that both the 50- and 42 degree frogs are custom sizes). The combination of 42 degree frog and PM-V11 blade is sublime. I have the "Stanley" style handle, which is still more upright than a true Stanley.

The LN and the LV are used fairly interchangeable. I love using either. I would tip the performance towards to LV, and the on-the-fly adjustment to the LN - but the latter is not a big factor as I use a small steel hammer to do fine adjustments on both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Stew,

One more factor: the wider planes (with wider blades) restrict the depth of cut owing to greater resistance. High cutting angles do the same. This is not a big deal on a smoother, where the finish takes but a few strokes. It is evident with BU planes where the performance comes from a high cutting angle. Fine shavings are the order here.

I want to remind you that the LV BUS is a great plane. I was using mine over the past weekend (62 degree cutting angle) and it is utterly reliable, easy to set up, and of all the smoothers, it remains the one that can be put to the work piece without a test shaving. It is that easy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stew Hagerty]

I use it with the medium-size standard (upright) tote, medium knob, and PM-V11 blade. I also have 40, 45, and 55 deg frogs for it. Right now it has the 55 installed. Parts (blades, frogs, totes, knobs, adjusters) are interchangeable between all of the custom planes with 2-3/8 blades. When I say I "have XX deg frogs for it" what I actually mean is that they're in my parts pool for my collection of customs. I believe that L-Ns have similarly interchangeable HW.

Like all of the custom planes it's made to very high standards and "just works". The base was flat to within a mil, sides were flat and perpendicular, etc. There are a couple things to pay attention to though:

1. Like all metal planes (including my L-Ns) the frog has a small amount of rotational play relative to the bed. If you want to have the option of running a tight mouth then you'll want to partially loosen the frog ("partially" so that it will stay where you put it) and dial in the rotation to align the blade to the mouth. It takes about 5 minutes.

2. The custom line use a new-style "solid" cap iron with a low bevel angle just like L-N. If you want to use a close-set cap iron for tearout control (and you should) then you'll want to hone a higher secondary bevel at the very tip, maybe 0.5 mm high, and create a rounded-off transition into the primary bevel. It's worth it to take your time and get this step right. If your frog is at 55 deg then you'll probably want a 40-45 def secondary bevel on the cap iron.

As with all Veritas tools the blade took minimal work - just hone the bevel and ruler-trick the back on polishing stones and it's ready for business.

It's not the most beautiful or traditional plane around, though not as starkly utilitarian as the previous "East German Swimmer" design (I wonder if Rob regrets having said that by this point? Those were/are very good planes BTW). If tool aesthetics are your thing then it may not be for you.

Thanks for all the great information Patrick.
How does the high angle 4 1/2 push? I am disabled and dont have the strebgth in my right arm that i once did. Or the stamina for that matter.

Here's the deal... See if have an ECE Primus 711 Improved. It's iron is bedded at 50°. When I get it dialed in, it is fantastic! The problem is that it's a pain in the butterfly to GET set up right.

Turn, try, turn, try, loosen hold down, back off, tighten hold down, turn, try, turn, try, tap to straighten blade, loosen hold down, etc, etc.

When I do get it set, I can take whispy .001" shavings off of tiger maple. But I have to spend way too much time getting it to that sweet spot. So I want a plane style I'm more familiar with and used to using. It is my only European style plane. The reason are a combination of vintage Stanley's, LV's, and LN's.

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew,

One more factor: the wider planes (with wider blades) restrict the depth of cut owing to greater resistance. High cutting angles do the same. This is not a big deal on a smoother, where the finish takes but a few strokes. It is evident with BU planes where the performance comes from a high cutting angle. Fine shavings are the order here.

I want to remind you that the LV BUS is a great plane. I was using mine over the past weekend (62 degree cutting angle) and it is utterly reliable, easy to set up, and of all the smoothers, it remains the one that can be put to the work piece without a test shaving. It is that easy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ok... Thank you Derek. I had not thought of a bevel-up smoother. Which is interesting because i aleady stated that i have a LV block plane with an optional 50° iron.

[Stew Hagerty]

OK Rob Lee,

Tell me what you think. I have a lot of curly maple and figured mahogany in a job coming up. I don't want to fuss with that Primus plane every time I pick it up for this. Your BU Smoother with the 2 1/4" iron and a 50 degree total pitch (optional 62 degree available), or your Custom 4 1/2 with 55 degree frog & 2 3/8" iron? Give me pro's and con's.

[Patrick Chase]

Ok... Thank you Derek. I had not thought of a bevel-up smoother. Which is interesting because i aleady stated that i have a LV block plane with an optional 50° iron.

The big question here is: How do you want to mitigate tearout?

The BUS is as Derek says a "fire and forget" option (I have one of those, too). A BD bench plane with a close-set chipbreaker will allow you to use a lower cutting angle on any given wood and therefore yield a somewhat better surface, but that's not the easiest setup to perfect.

When I mentioned that my 4-1/2 currently has a 55-deg frog I probably should have disclosed that I seldom use it in that configuration, and I'll probably switch it over to a 40 deg frog before long. As Derek says a wide plane with a high-angle frog is a lot of work. I personally am reasonably comfortable pushing it, but it's not my first choice.

[Patrick Chase]

OK Rob Lee,

Tell me what you think. I have a lot of curly maple and figured mahogany in a job coming up. I don't want to fuss with that Primus plane every time I pick it up for this. Your BU Smoother with the 2 1/4" iron and a 50 degree total pitch (optional 62 degree available), or your Custom 4 1/2 with 55 degree frog & 2 3/8" iron? Give me pro's and con's.

If you want to ask Rob a question like that then you should move it to a separate thread that does not solicit comparisons between his planes and those of a competitor. He's not allowed to post in a thread like this, and even if he were allowed to I'm quite sure he would refrain out of respect for the forum's integrity.

[Tony Wilkins]

Patrick is right about Rob and threads between he and a competitor.

however, as Derek is someone who was the test pilot for several of the Veritas planes, I'd give his advise a good d long thought.

[Stew Hagerty]

If you want to ask Rob a question like that then you should move it to a separate thread that does not solicit comparisons between his planes and those of a competitor. He's not allowed to post in a thread like this, and even if he were allowed to I'm quite sure he would refrain out of respect for the forum's integrity.

Ah, yes. Thank you. I should know that.

[Patrick Chase]

Sorry, I missed this before and just noticed it now while looking in this thread for somebody else's comment...


Thanks for all the great information Patrick.
How does the high angle 4 1/2 push? I am disabled and dont have the strebgth in my right arm that i once did. Or the stamina for that matter.

Given your situation I wouldn't recommend a 4-1/2 at all, much less one with a high-angle frog. I have decent arm strength and overall stamina and I still find the cutting effort fairly noticeable with the 4-1/2 at 55 deg. I'd also be a little concerned about the Veritas bevel-up smoother as that's almost as wide as a 4-1/2. The custom #4 and low-angle smoother (2" blade, same as a #4) might be a better option.

If must have high cutting angles then you should look at the #3 as Derek suggests or the Veritas small bevel-up smoother (a 3-sized BU plane). Both of those have 1.75" blades and will enable you to use high pitches with reasonable effort.

You haven't mentioned whether you have a Jack, but with your strength issue you might be a good candidate for a 5-1/4, which is a slightly shortened Jack with #3-sized blade. Somebody stated in another thread that L-N still makes those on a special-order basis. The Veritas 5-1/4W is the same width as a regular Jack so it doesn't help with the strength issue (though I have one and it's a great plane).

The other thing to keep in mind is camber - if you're willing to get creative with cutting-edge shape then you can reduce the effective width and therefore the effort associated with any plane. This takes moderately advanced sharpening techniques though, esp. if you also want a ~flat shaving in the middle of the plane (it can be done, but it's not simple).

[Derek Cohen]

Stew, ditto on all that Patrick recommends, especially the LV Small BUS. This is a #3 sized bevel up smoother. With its low centre of gravity, and low centre of effort, it is lighter to push that a LN#3 with a high angle frog.

This pic was taken several years ago (when I was timing different drawer-making techniques, hence the watch in the background, and the old bench) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20BU%20Smoother/Clocked27.jpg

Alongside a LN #3 (with 55 degree frog) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20BU%20Smoother/BUand3-1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stew Hagerty]

Sorry, I missed this before and just noticed it now while looking in this thread for somebody else's comment...



Given your situation I wouldn't recommend a 4-1/2 at all, much less one with a high-angle frog. I have decent arm strength and overall stamina and I still find the cutting effort fairly noticeable with the 4-1/2 at 55 deg. I'd also be a little concerned about the Veritas bevel-up smoother as that's almost as wide as a 4-1/2. The custom #4 and low-angle smoother (2" blade, same as a #4) might be a better option.

If must have high cutting angles then you should look at the #3 as Derek suggests or the Veritas small bevel-up smoother (a 3-sized BU plane). Both of those have 1.75" blades and will enable you to use high pitches with reasonable effort.

You haven't mentioned whether you have a Jack, but with your strength issue you might be a good candidate for a 5-1/4, which is a slightly shortened Jack with #3-sized blade. Somebody stated in another thread that L-N still makes those on a special-order basis. The Veritas 5-1/4W is the same width as a regular Jack so it doesn't help with the strength issue (though I have one and it's a great plane).

The other thing to keep in mind is camber - if you're willing to get creative with cutting-edge shape then you can reduce the effective width and therefore the effort associated with any plane. This takes moderately advanced sharpening techniques though, esp. if you also want a ~flat shaving in the middle of the plane (it can be done, but it's not simple).

Thank you Patrick,

I actually have several Jack Planes. I have 3 vintage Stanleys: #5 1/4, #5, & #5 1/2. I also have the new style Stanley Premium Line #62 LA Jack that came out 8-9 years ago. I used to use the 62 as a shooting plane, until I got my dedicated shooter from LV. I use the #5 with a moderately cambered iron all the time, Although I do use the #5 1/2 on occasion, few of the projects I typically find on my bench are of the size that necessitates its use. As for the #5 1/4, I did tune it up and give it a test drive after I first got it, but I don't believe that I've touched it since.



Stew, ditto on all that Patrick recommends, especially the LV Small BUS. This is a #3 sized bevel up smoother. With its low centre of gravity, and low centre of effort, it is lighter to push that a LN#3 with a high angle frog.

This pic was taken several years ago (when I was timing different drawer-making techniques, hence the watch in the background, and the old bench) ...



Alongside a LN #3 (with 55 degree frog) ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I have LV's LA Block Plane with the optional tote & knob. It's blade is just 1/8" narrower than the small BU Smoother. In addition to the standard 25 degree iron I also have the 38 degree, 50, degree, and the 38 degree toothing blades. I have used the 38 and even the 50 degree blades before without any problem. Although, granted, I did not go at it for hours with one of those blades in. In fact, when ever I would get frustrated with the Primus, I would almost always pop in one of the high angle blades and start making shavings. Two things though, it is a bit small, and I work with figured woods a lot so I want a dedicated high angle plane that I can just grab and go.

Since I started this thread, I had a conversation with Rob Lee and I ended up ordering the larger BU Smoother (which actually just arrived and I am about to go unpack it). He told me to try it out and if I don't like it, we can try a different plane until I find one that works well for me. Thank you Rob! So I will let you guys know what I think. Off to smooth some wood...

[Jim Koepke]

He told me to try it out and if I don't like it, we can try a different plane until I find one that works well for me. Thank you Rob! So I will let you guys know what I think. Off to smooth some wood...

Wonderful.

What is that old saying? "If you can't bring the customer to the showroom take the showroom to the customer… "

jtk

[Stew Hagerty]

Well,with nothing but a quick stropping only it woks great on both curly maple and figured mahogany. It very easily dials in from a heavier .0025" shaving to whispy thin .001" pillows. Yes, it is a bit harder to push than either my vintage #'s 4 or 4 1/2 but neither can pull shavings and leave a silky smooth finish on this curly maple like this does.
Just for kicks, i pulled out some birdseye and some beautiful quilted maple and it whizzed right through those as well, leaving that same silky smooth surface. When i have a chance, I'm going to pull out some figured jatoba that i have squirreled away and see how it does on that rock hard, grain switching stuff.
So far I'm giving this LV BU Smoother with a PM-V11 iron a big thumbs up!

Hmmm, for some reason it won't upload a photo from my phone. I'll post one later.

Oh.... And another huge thank you to Rob Lee!

[Patrick Chase]

Well,with nothing but a quick stropping only it woks great on both curly maple and figured mahogany. It very easily dials in from a heavier .0025" shaving to whispy thin .001" pillows. Yes, it is a bit harder to push than either my vintage #'s 4 or 4 1/2 but neither can pull shavings and leave a silky smooth finish on this curly maple like this does.
Just for kicks, i pulled out some birdseye and some beautiful quilted maple and it whizzed right through those as well, leaving that same silky smooth surface. When i have a chance, I'm going to pull out some figured jatoba that i have squirreled away and see how it does on that rock hard, grain switching stuff.
So far I'm giving this LV BU Smoother with a PM-V11 iron a big thumbs up!


I take it that this is with the 38-deg iron (50-deg cutting angle) that comes with the plane? Stropping might have added a couple more deg depending on the surface and your technique. It's probably safe to say that you were somewhere between 50 and 55 deg net cutting angle.

[Stew Hagerty]

I take it that this is with the 38-deg iron (50-deg cutting angle) that comes with the plane? Stropping might have added a couple more deg depending on the surface and your technique. It's probably safe to say that you were somewhere between 50 and 55 deg net cutting angle.

Yes, I was using the standard 38 degree iron. I strop on the rough side of one of T4WW's "Genuine Horse Butt" strops. I have green compound that has been rubbed into one side over the 6 or 7 years I've had it and I spritz the smooth side with some DMT Dia-Spray every 2 or 3 times I use it. You're probably right about the angle. I typically strop just up a hair from the honing angle. I try to match or just excede whatever the primary bevel,or microbevel, I have on a particular iron (I typically have not used a microbevel on a bevel up iron).

[Stew Hagerty]

Ok, here we go. Trying again to upload the photos.

Curly Maple:

332917


Figured Mahogany:

332918



And FYI, this is me:

332919

[Patrick Chase]

Ok, here we go. Trying again to upload the photos.

Curly Maple:

332917


Figured Mahogany:

332918



And FYI, this is me:

332919

Yep, nice results indeed. I have that plane and as Derek has said a number of times it produces reliably good surfaces with a minimum of fuss. You may be able to do a hair better with a BD bench plane and close-set cap iron, but that's a considerably more finicky setup.

If you keep measuring shavings like that you're going to need to add one of these (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69302), though (sorry, I know I've already used that one here on SMC, but it's just too hard to pass up).

[Mike Brady]

At our hand tool club we recently recently discussed a member's new custom Veritas plane, a #5 size jack. He passed it around and it definitely is a beautifully made and designed tool. It also is impressively heavy, which most of the group thought was a positive attribute in a plane. Overall, the owner of this plane has found it to be a good tool so far. He commented that he has not seen any real benefit from the set screws that keep the blade centered in the mouth of the plane. He feels that when loosened enough to allow for blade adjustments, the two screws might as well not be there. He also expressed a level of annoyance with the hex screw that secures the cap iron to the plane iron. Perhaps it just "different" from what he is accustomed to, but having to keep a small hex wrench around the bench was not to his liking. The choice of handle shapes and blade metallurgy options were big pluses. Members were generally much more familiar with LV's bevel-up planes than they were with this new series.

[Derek Cohen]

At our hand tool club we recently recently discussed a member's new custom Veritas plane, a #5 size jack. He passed it around and it definitely is a beautifully made and designed tool. It also is impressively heavy, which most of the group thought was a positive attribute in a plane. Overall, the owner of this plane has found it to be a good tool so far. He commented that he has not seen any real benefit from the set screws that keep the blade centered in the mouth of the plane. He feels that when loosened enough to allow for blade adjustments, the two screws might as well not be there. He also expressed a level of annoyance with the hex screw that secures the cap iron to the plane iron. Perhaps it just "different" from what he is accustomed to, but having to keep a small hex wrench around the bench was not to his liking. The choice of handle shapes and blade metallurgy options were big pluses. Members were generally much more familiar with LV's bevel-up planes than they were with this new series.

Hi Mike

Clearly your friend does not understand how to use the set screws!

The set screws must not be tightened, then loosened for the blade to be removed. The set screws are instead loosely tight, that is, they touch the sides of the blade without holding it firmly. Then the blade may be lifted out and replaced again without ever adjusting the set screws.

There is a little technique I have in adjusting the cap iron. This is detailed in my review. Here it is ...

Below, loosening the screws ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_5b982e8d.jpg


Now, if you hold the blade and chipbreaker apart with your fingers …


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_3547d885.jpg


… there is sufficient space to slide the chipbreaker forward and over the end of the blade without touching the edge.




http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_m39825099.jpg


Of course, you will reverse this process when bringing them together. Just ensure that the slots in the blade carrier align with the slot in the blade.


Last point when removing or replacing a blade, tilt the body until the bed of the frog is horizontal for increased control …


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_m46d0d782.jpg


Since that write up - which includes a hex driver I made for the chipbreaker - I have found an even better driver. This is below. Also, a small 2 oz jeweller's hammer i use to make fine lateral adjustments to the blade.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Plane%20hammer/Custom-plane-tools1a_zpsa5jitese.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

Thanks for that Derek. He reads this forum, so he will undoubted see your post.

[Chris Hachet]

Yep, nice results indeed. I have that plane and as Derek has said a number of times it produces reliably good surfaces with a minimum of fuss. You may be able to do a hair better with a BD bench plane and close-set cap iron, but that's a considerably more finicky setup.

If you keep measuring shavings like that you're going to need to add one of these (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69302), though (sorry, I know I've already used that one here on SMC, but it's just too hard to pass up).

I would be skeptical of the Vertas claim that there is less fine furniture being made now than a few years ago. If anything, it seems like fine woodworking is growing just a little bit. That attachment does seem kind of cool though.

[Patrick Chase]

I would be skeptical of the Vertas claim that there is less fine furniture being made now than a few years ago. If anything, it seems like fine woodworking is growing just a little bit. That attachment does seem kind of cool though.

Err, that ad is Lee Valley's idea of an April Fools' joke from a few years back. Nothing in it should be viewed as remotely factual (though they did build one and it works as advertised).

[Chris Hachet]

Err, that ad is Lee Valley's idea of an April Fools' joke from a few years back. Nothing in it should be viewed as remotely factual (though they did build one and it works as advertised).

Pardon me for being a little slow....probably why playing with ahnd tools rather than power tools helps me keep all of my fingers....

[Stew Hagerty]

Yep, nice results indeed. I have that plane and as Derek has said a number of times it produces reliably good surfaces with a minimum of fuss. You may be able to do a hair better with a BD bench plane and close-set cap iron, but that's a considerably more finicky setup.

If you keep measuring shavings like that you're going to need to add one of these (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69302), though (sorry, I know I've already used that one here on SMC, but it's just too hard to pass up).

I love their April Tools.

[Dale Murray]

I just ordered a 4-1/2 PMV11 at 45* this morning.

Retiring my vintage stanley.