Finishing maple

[Randy Rizzo]

I'm getting to the point I dread most, applying a finish to a bassinet. Daughter wants a dark stain. I know from past experience maple is not easy to stain, blotchy results with just oil based stain. So I'm researching other methods. How does this sound. Apply a 50% thinned coat of Shellac seal coat. Apply a gel stain, spray on a clear lacquer finish. Do you sand between any of the application processes? I am going to to test on some scrap samples. So far test pieces I've done with just oil based stain I don't like. My personal preference would be to just leave it natural, a coat of lacquer sanding sealer, and several coats of sprayed on clear lacquer.

[Prashun Patel]

What's that? You have spray equipment???

Here's the easiest way to that kind of finish:

Purchase a DYE. Transtint makes pre-mixed concentrates that dilute in ethanol that are great. You'll have to experiment with the dilution, but about 2% is a good start. Without getting into the guts, dyes are less blotch prone and allow you to 'airbrush' in a way that you cannot with the store bought wipe on stains.

Once you've sprayed on the dye, you can go straight to spraying your lacquer finish. in fact, if your color isn't just perfect, you can even add a little transtint to the lacquer to 'tone' up the finish.

Dyes will open a whole world of coloring to you.

It is also possible to dilute the Transtint in water (and spray) or to get strictly water-soluble dyes - which will give you a million choices (just check out WD Lockwood's website). But in blotch prone woods, you may find better performance in ethanol (or isopropyl alcohol). Also, applying a water based dye can cause the sanded surface to get rough again, which requires additional sanding (complicated by the fact that you now have color and have to take pains not so sand through that). The ethanol doesn't do this (as badly). On a multisurfaced item like a bassinet, the ethanol stain may be the simplest path forward.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Yes, dye is the way to go with maple. I like water soluble aniline dyes, as it's extremely easy to use. Alcohol soluble dry too fast, and can be more difficult to get an even color when wiping.

[Randy Rizzo]

What's that? You have spray equipment???

Here's the easiest way to that kind of finish:

Purchase a DYE. Transtint makes pre-mixed concentrates that dilute in ethanol that are great. You'll have to experiment with the dilution, but about 2% is a good start. Without getting into the guts, dyes are less blotch prone and allow you to 'airbrush' in a way that you cannot with the store bought wipe on stains.

Once you've sprayed on the dye, you can go straight to spraying your lacquer finish. in fact, if your color isn't just perfect, you can even add a little transtint to the lacquer to 'tone' up the finish.

Dyes will open a whole world of coloring to you.

It is also possible to dilute the Transtint in water (and spray) or to get strictly water-soluble dyes - which will give you a million choices (just check out WD Lockwood's website). But in blotch prone woods, you may find better performance in ethanol (or isopropyl alcohol). Also, applying a water based dye can cause the sanded surface to get rough again, which requires additional sanding (complicated by the fact that you now have color and have to take pains not so sand through that). The ethanol doesn't do this (as badly). On a multisurfaced item like a bassinet, the ethanol stain may be the simplest path forward.

Sorry Prashun, no spray equipment here! Should have included that info. With any of these products, be it dye or gel, is it necessary to keep a "wet" working edge? I'm headed to the local supply house (Ace Hardware) to check product availability. Living in rural area can have it's drawbacks! My guess it'll be mail order

[Chris Padilla]

I wouldn't even try to dye maple without spraying it. It can be REALLY difficult to avoid splotching, lines, etc. That said, I used NGR dyes (non-grain raising) from Behlen and have had excellent results with it...spraying. :) My wife wanted maple to be a darkish chocolate kind of like walnut. I don't know what color you might be using but my advice is to practice on scrap to a get a feel for the very questions you are asking. The gel might be your best bet if you cannot spray at all but even my attempt with gel on maple was unsatisfactory for me.

[Scott Holmes]

When doing jobs built with maple and the builder couldn't get to the color requested; I normally use alcohol dye SPRAYED. Then, toners and/or glaze ( gel stain works too) to get whatever color is needed. I've done kitchens, home offices, bookcases,etc..

[Conrad Fiore]

I'm going to weigh in on the blotch subject by saying that blotch is a subjective term. If the appropriate topcoat is applied to a "blotchy" maple dye job this is what you get.
The dye was hand applied and flooded on the wood. The topcoat is shellac but I have used many waterborne finishes that look as good.

[roger wiegand]

I've had pretty good success with alcohol dyes by flooding the surface with the dye, letting the wood absorb as much as it wants (only a minute to do that) and then wiping the excess up with paper towels. That way I avoid the lines you can get by having an edge or variable swipes with a dampened rag. The alcohol redissolves the dye in the wood, so if you do get a line you can re-flood the surface, give it a rub, and it usually goes away.

Like Conrad I tend to get effects that I really like from "blotchy" figured wood. I think the problems arise when people use one piece of figured wood among primarily plain flat sawn boards. Commonly seen in factory furniture where no one pays attention to grain or figure in the building process. Used to get great "defective" curly and birdseye boards from a mill that primarily supplied a factory that didn't want to deal with them!

[Randy Rizzo]

Wow, so many approaches to this. I did some research on dyes, according to the Homestead website, dyes are not suitable for this project since it will be for an infant, a direct quote from their FAQ, "Due to current regulations, TransTint and TransFast dyes are not suitable for food preparation surfaces, toys or infant furniture for children under the age of 12." I've done some test pieces using the following method, sealed the surface with a 50/50 mix denatured alcohol/Zinsser Seal Coat Shellac, wiped on a General Finish Gel stain, another with a MinWax stain. Better. But still not there. Haven' done this yet, just wondering anyone has tried it and what the drawbacks might be. Increase the ratio of seal coat to alcohol, 75/25, or even just 100% seal coat. While it may work initially I just wonder about the long term longevity. I planned on a lacquer top coat.

[John TenEyck]

I think that health related statement applies to surfaces dyed but not top coated with anything. Both those dyes are water soluble, so if you dye a cutting board, for example, and then use it for food prep. any wet food could pull up some of the dye. However, you plan to seal in the dye on the bassinet with a top coat, so the dye can't get wet and leach back out.

If you are going the gel stain route, I would seal the surface first with straight SealCoat, then sand that back with 325 or 400 grit. Might even do it twice, sanding afterwards each time. The idea is to fill the thirsty areas with shellac but not the normal grain. Now when you apply the gel coat you should get a good deep color w/o blotching. I think. Nothing about maple is easy when it comes to coloring it by hand.

John

[Stew Hagerty]

Here is what I would do...

First, I hope you have an air compressor or can borrow one. A small pancake style is plenty, it doesn't take a very big one.

First, go to Amazon and buy this sprayer:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EX0EYU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EX0EYU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Right now it is $36.98 with free shipping.

And while you're on Amazon, get yourself a bottle of this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B5JT8C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It's just $5.30 right now.

OK, then go get some Metal Complex Dye:

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/LW-MCW.XX/W._D._Lockwood_Metal_Complex_Dyes

Bear in mind that you may need to get more than one color and blend them to get the color you want. I can help you if you need advice about which ones to get.

Mix the dyes into the shellac, they dissolve almost instantly, until you get the color and concentration that you want. Then add a small amount of the alcohol, it is the slowest drying of the common alcohols and will retard the mix a bit. I don't measure, I fill the cup about 3/4 full then add enough alcohol to bring it up to about 7/8 full. In hot weather I may double the alcohol.

WEAR A NIOSH 95 MASK AND TURN OFF ANY OPEN FLAMES!

Test spray on some cardboard to get the spray pattern & volume set. Then try it out on a scrap piece of the wood you plan on using.

Apply 1 to 3 coats to get the color the way you want it, allow it to cure for a couple of days then you can apply whatever topcoat you want.

I have used this procedure to successfully color a number of tiger, curly, quilted, and birdseye maples with perfect success.

[Frederick Skelly]

I'm going to weigh in on the blotch subject by saying that blotch is a subjective term. If the appropriate topcoat is applied to a "blotchy" maple dye job this is what you get.
The dye was hand applied and flooded on the wood. The topcoat is shellac but I have used many waterborne finishes that look as good.

That is simply stunning Conrad!

[Stew Hagerty]

Wow, so many approaches to this. I did some research on dyes, according to the Homestead website, dyes are not suitable for this project since it will be for an infant, a direct quote from their FAQ, "Due to current regulations, TransTint and TransFast dyes are not suitable for food preparation surfaces, toys or infant furniture for children under the age of 12." I've done some test pieces using the following method, sealed the surface with a 50/50 mix denatured alcohol/Zinsser Seal Coat Shellac, wiped on a General Finish Gel stain, another with a MinWax stain. Better. But still not there. Haven' done this yet, just wondering anyone has tried it and what the drawbacks might be. Increase the ratio of seal coat to alcohol, 75/25, or even just 100% seal coat. While it may work initially I just wonder about the long term longevity. I planned on a lacquer top coat.


Randy,

I checked on the W.D. Lockwood Metal Complex Dyes that I mentioned as far as safety is concerned. They appear to be safe. I've attached a copy of page 1 of one of the MSDS sheets (each color has it's own).

333209

[John TenEyck]

Yes it is, on a curly maple piece like that. But on what is supposed to be plain grained maple, an errant blotch here and there, and generally right where you definitely don't want it, looks awful, at least to me.

John