White Pine T&G- what kind of color change should I expect?

[Peter Aeschliman]

Not sure if this is thread should be posted to this forum or the workshops or finishing forums, because I think it has tidbits of all three... :)

I've been slogging through the long process of building out a wood shop in my basement. I decided to finish the stud-framed portion of the walls with white pine tongue & groove boards.

Although I have decent natural light in the basement, I would like to keep the walls as light in color as possible. Before I started installing the stuff, the plan was to prime and paint it all white (not bothering to fill nail holes or knots). But now that I have it up, I love the look as-is.

I've seen a lot of tongue and groove pine in my day, and I've never seen any that I liked aesthetically in terms of the color... it reminds me of the 70's and 80's. Not the look I'm going for. No offense to those who like that look- just my personal opinion. I imagine this is because I tend to see pine T&G it in older homes where the wood has had a chance to age and turn that familiar darker/amber color.

I'm trying to get a sense for whether I can do anything to preserve the current color, or whether I should just go forward with my plans to paint it. If the color will darken and go amber no matter what, then I'll just paint it. It will be way easier to paint now than after I install my conduit, dust collection, storage, etc etc.

The ceiling joists in these pictures are pretty dark by comparison, and I imagine that's in large part because they have been changing color since 1921.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/20160220_140318.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/peteraeschliman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/20160220_140318.jpg.html)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/20160220_191527.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/peteraeschliman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/20160220_191527.jpg.html)

Thanks!
Peter

[Tom Ewell]

Trimmed out my basement with clear white pine some 30yrs ago with just a poly finish, yes it's all gone darker (amber) even in the areas without windows.

A ton of years ago my father in law used a pigmented wash (a very thinned out oil based paint) to seal and color his boards in a sun room, the grain and knots showed through the lightly tinted finish and while the color may have changed some over the years it still appeared much the same until a recent paint job during a remodel.

I suppose it was sort of a pickled look if I had to put a name to it.

Not sure if one can expect same results using a water based finish but would not hesitate to try if that's the ticket.

[Cody Colston]

It will darken. No clear finish will prevent that from happening.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a poplar ceiling in my LR that has been up 15+ years. I used latex pickling stain and water base poly before it went up - hasn't changed color significantly.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Interesting. Two mentions of a white-washed (aka pickling) option- I hadn't considered that, but I like it as a middle ground option.

I'm leaning toward just painting it white. It will be a known entity, will reflect tons of light, and I think it looks pretty good. I just don't want to leave it natural and then regret it because the color changed to something I don't like.

[John TenEyck]

It will stay very much the color it is now if you finish it with a water based clear coat that has a dual UV package in it. One component prevents the finish from yellowing, the other prevents the wood from aging. One such product is General Finishes High Performance Poly. Even if you decide to go the pickling option, it would be a good topcoat to put over it. Other companies make similar products, this just happens to be the one I'm familiar with.

John

[Jim Dwight]

My pine paneling is several decades old. It may have been finished with amber shellac at some point but is clearly darker where it has been exposed to light. Where pictures or other things were on the wall it is lighter. On one wall we have used Minwax water based pickling stain. It can be applied thick enough to almost turn the wall white. I used a combination of a 4 inch roller and a 2.5 inch trim brush on it last weekend in a 8 foot section. Went faster than just a brush. It's more effort to apply than white paint would be but not a lot. Seems to be essentially a white pigmented water based poly. I've also used white tinted Resisthane, a water based lacquer. You'd have to thin it with straight untinted Resisthane to get an effect like the Minwax pickling stain. A significant advantage would be the ability to spray it and save time. You could probably spray the pickling stain too, I guess. It's pretty thin.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks guys.

John, thanks for the tip on the General Finishes product. More reading to do. From what I understand though, the color change is partly due to oxidation as well as UV exposure. From what I've read online, it seems like the best one can do is slow down the process... but ultimately it's inevitable.

[Lee Schierer]

I finished a red oak mobile computer desk at least 20 years ago with the water based Minwax Polyacrylic finish, it has barely changed color since then despite being in some rather bright rooms.

[Tom Ewell]

Thanks guys.

John, thanks for the tip on the General Finishes product. More reading to do. From what I understand though, the color change is partly due to oxidation as well as UV exposure. From what I've read online, it seems like the best one can do is slow down the process... but ultimately it's inevitable.
If like mine, the walls of your shop will eventually get covered with cabinets, shelving, hanging clamps and bunches of other stuff with dust on them so what they look like now ain't going to look like that later anyhow.
Setup a good lighting scheme and 'reflective' ceiling and it won't matter much over the long haul.

[Bradley Gray]

Jim,
Highjack alert! Sorry to cut in, but my daughter has a bunch of aged T&G pine with varnish. She wants to pickle some of it and my advice was that she would have to have the varnish removed in order to pickle it.

So, am I reading your post correctly? Did you apply the Minwax WB pickling stain Over the existing finish?

[Jim Becker]

Peter, I moved this here to Workshops where I think it's most appropriate. Your pine is going to yellow out over time, but what you put on it will make a difference. If you use a water borne clear finish that also has some UV protection, it will stay reasonably light over time. If you go oil-based (which is going to off-gas for a long time in case that matters to you) it's going to be yellower initially and likely end up darker over time, even with UV inhibitors. Personally, for a workshop environment, I'd do the water borne just to add some "protection" with minimal color change. Half my shop is T1-11 and it's stayed reasonably light in color since it was installed back in the early 2000s.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks Jim. Yeah, I wasn't sure which forum was appropriate.

Man. I'm so torn. I really want the space to feel like a wood shop, not a hospital or office. White is very practical, but maybe too sterile... But I also don't want the 80's log cabin look.

If it weren't for the fact that I will have storage, dust collection, and EMT on the walls, I would go with a WB finish with a UV blocker and see what happens...and then just paint it later if I don't like it. But that will be such a pain with everything in the way in the future.

Thanks for the feedback on the T1-11 as well- I put that up on some of my interior walls... I wanted to keep that natural as well because I figure if I paint it, it will look too much like the exterior of a house... go figure that siding would have that effect. :p

The other consideration is that white will make every nail hole, knot, and imperfection much more obvious...

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn't worry about what you're going to hang post-finishing...that's the nature of the environment you're creating. Some water borne clear (and you don't need to use anything expensive for this) to seal it a little and insure an even sheen and you can move on to other things. I actually like the "natural" color end of my shop better than the painted OSB end. It's more "comfortable" and "warmer", IMHO, yet still light and bright. I'm not sure how that comes across in these panos (and they are before I did my recent update to LED lighting), but...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_3739_zpsyfsgydr5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_3738_zps0ulpjgq9.jpg

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks for the pictures. I see what you mean.

Awesome machinery, btw!

[Dave Redlin]

White walls used at the Anthony Hay Shop in Colonial Williamsburg...

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the pictures. I see what you mean.

Awesome machinery, btw!
Thanks. This shop has evolved since early 2000 from just that area over where the big window is out to a ~22'x30' area. The original portion remains my favorite and is where the meat of the work gets done outside of the important work at the slider and J/P That other end just doesn't "feel" as nice. My next step is to insulate the ceiling in my copious free time when funds allow. That will be a major improvement and make my heating much more efficient and less costly.

[Peter Kelly]

If left un-finished, the panelling should look like what I have in my place in about 46 years.

http://i.imgur.com/sli0Nd6.jpg

[Mike Wilkins]

Since you are in a basement, I would consider a whitewash finish to add some light in what is usually a dark area. I have painted the OSB on my shop walls, and in the process of installing primed beaded paneling on the ceiling, and what a difference the reflected light makes.

Everything I have read on basement shops says to make it as bright as possible to eliminate the dark feeling; but not so bright that you have to wear sunglasses while using the bandsaw.