LV Medium Router Plane verses small

[Tony Wilkins]

I've been thinking of getting a smaller router plane to better balance on the edge of boards for hinges etc. I know that Veritas now has a Medium router plane. It's great advantage for me Is that it uses the same blades as my large Veritas router plane. However, I'm wondering if it's small enough to serve the purpose I want for it.

any users of the medium tool care to chime in?

[Patrick Chase]

I've been thinking of getting a smaller router plane to better balance on the edge of boards for hinges etc. I know that Veritas now has a Medium router plane. It's great advantage for me Is that it uses the same blades as my large Veritas router plane. However, I'm wondering if it's small enough to serve the purpose I want for it.

any users of the medium tool care to chime in?

I have the medium, mostly because I already had the large and wanted to be able to use the full range of blades. I use it for hinge mortising and similar on-edge work and it's fine for that IMO.

The small and medium are fairly close in terms of base size (3.25" x 2.25" for the small, 3.5" x 3" for the medium) and therefore in terms of how they balance on edges. The main difference between the two is that the medium is higher and has much bulkier mechanics, meaning that the blade and associated HW take up a lot more topside real estate leaving less places for fingers to grip etc. For me that isn't a big deal.

Veritas also makes a dedicated hinge mortiser (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=71265&cat=1,41182,48945&ap=1) that uses the same blades as the large and medium router planes. I've never tried it though.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't have the LV medium but I had the Lie Nielsen small. My problem with it (and the LV) is that there's no screw adjustment for changing the depth. When doing a hinge mortise, for example, you want to take small bites. With a plane that you can adjust with a screw, you can drop the cutter a small amount and get on with your work.

With a plane without a screw adjustment, the amount you change the depth can be difficult to set, and if it slips on you, you have to go back to your mortise to establish where you were before and then try again to drop the cutter a small amount.

I wish they would put a screw adjustment on their small and medium router planes. I actually have the LV "toy" router plane and use that for small things. At least that one has a screw adjustment for depth.

Mike

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks Mike, didn't realize the medium didn't have the screw adjust and see what you're saying about the adjustment. Sounds very frustrating at that. May have to look at the hinge mortise plane.

[Derek Cohen]

I don't have the LV medium but I had the Lie Nielsen small. My problem with it (and the LV) is that there's no screw adjustment for changing the depth. When doing a hinge mortise, for example, you want to take small bites. With a plane that you can adjust with a screw, you can drop the cutter a small amount and get on with your work.

With a plane without a screw adjustment, the amount you change the depth can be difficult to set, and if it slips on you, you have to go back to your mortise to establish where you were before and then try again to drop the cutter a small amount.

I wish they would put a screw adjustment on their small and medium router planes. I actually have the LV "toy" router plane and use that for small things. At least that one has a screw adjustment for depth.

Mike

Mike

The way to work without a depth adjuster is to first set the depth stop. Then you work progressively towards this by letting off a smidgeon of tightness in the clamping adjustment, and tapping with a hammer on the top of the blade. Re-tighten and go. Repeat until you reach the limit of the depth stop.

I have the Large LV and the Small, but not the medium. My "medium" is one I built. This is the strategy I use with it ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Router%20planes/11_zps9c5dbd33.jpg

As you can see, it is the same system (sans depth adjuster).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Mike

The way to work without a depth adjuster is to first set the depth stop. Then you work progressively towards this by letting off a smidgeon of tightness in the clamping adjustment, and tapping with a hammer on the top of the blade. Re-tighten and go. Repeat until you reach the limit of the depth stop.

This is what I do as well. Adjusters are certainly convenient, but there's almost always a clever technique that works well enough.

As noted in my previous reply the medium router plane is already a bit "crowded" and top-heavy. Adding an adjuster wouldn't have helped in either department...

[Judson Green]

what about just adding a larger base to the one you have now, perhaps one with a fence to aid in stability.

[Prashun Patel]

I own the small one and the large one.

The small one is good in a pinch, but it does not come with a stock depth stop. Unless you fashion a shop made one, as I believe Derek did some time back, it is tricky to operate with perfect precision. I find it tricky to lock in the blade squarely with the locking nut. It is prone to twisting.

Last, the blades are fixed and "L" shaped, which means sharpening requires some forethought.

It always appeared to me that the medium router plane was just a better V2.0 of the small one.

That being said, could you just use the large plane's fence (if you don't have one already) and a clamped on board to balance the edge better.

I just far prefer the ergonomics and control of the larger plane to the small one.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the small and the large. The depth stop for the small is $6.50 - not a deal breaker for me. I roughed up the shaft of the blade and that noticably reduced the twist when I tighten it "reasonably". (But Prashun is right - you'll still get some twist because it's a round shaft.) Nevertheless, I find it to be a good, convenient tool for the things you described.
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

What am I missing here?

When a small width of wood needs work with a router plane it is easy to rig up a few pieces of scrap to straddle the work and clamp it in place if need be.

For me, it is much faster to layout a hinge mortise and knock it out with some chisel work.

But the lure of something new and shiny calls to us all...

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

What am I missing here?

When a small width of wood needs work with a router plane it is easy to rig up a few pieces of scrap to straddle the work and clamp it in place if need be.

For me, it is much faster to layout a hinge mortise and knock it out with some chisel work.

But the lure of something new and shiny calls to us all...

jtk
For me, the advantage of a router plane when doing hinge mortises is that I can be sure of even depth across the mortise. Sure, you can scribe a line to the depth, then chisel to that line, and use a double square to check that the mortise is the proper depth all over - but it's easier with a router plane.

And the operation of the router plane is easier if you have a depth adjustment screw. It allows you to make very small, well controlled adjustments to the depth. Like you said above, I'd rather clamp some wood to the panel and then use my big LV router plane than mess with a router plane without a screw adjustment.

Mike

[Patrick Chase]

For me, the advantage of a router plane when doing hinge mortises is that I can be sure of even depth across the mortise. Sure, you can scribe a line to the depth, then chisel to that line, and use a double square to check that the mortise is the proper depth all over - but it's easier with a router plane.

And the operation of the router plane is easier if you have a depth adjustment screw. It allows you to make very small, well controlled adjustments to the depth. Like you said above, I'd rather clamp some wood to the panel and then use my big LV router plane than mess with a router plane without a screw adjustment.

Mike

I must be missing something here. You've repeatedly raised the issue of even *bottom* depth, but as Derek pointed out a depth stop suffices for that. If you're cutting multiple mortises you'd still set the depth stop even on a plane with an adjustment screw, so there isn't even any incremental effort involved.

The whole business about scribing and chiseling is a canard - if somebody thinks that they have to do that to achieve a consistent/controlled mortise depth using a router plane that has a depth stop, then that simply means they don't understand how to use the depth stop.

EDIT: I have both the medium and the large. I use the medium for hinges all the time. I don't find any practical difference in my ability to achieve a consistent depth. The screw adjuster on the large makes it marginally easier to achieve consistent *intermediate* cut depths, but it has no impact whatsoever on the final mortise depth.

[Mike Henderson]

I must be missing something here. You've repeatedly raised the issue of even *bottom* depth, but as Derek pointed out a depth stop suffices for that. If you're cutting multiple mortises you'd still set the depth stop even on a plane with an adjustment screw, so there isn't even any incremental effort involved.

The whole business about scribing and chiseling is a canard - if somebody thinks that they have to do that to achieve a consistent/controlled mortise depth using a router plane that has a depth stop, then that simply means they don't understand how to use the tool.

Jim K mentioned using a chisel to do the mortise. My comments about getting a even bottom relate to using a chisel for the mortise and not using a router plane.

Then I commented that a router plane makes it easier to get a consistent flat bottom - because that's what a router plane does.

Then, I went on to comment that I find it easier to use a router plane with a screw depth adjustment.

Hope that's clear.

Mike

[Patrick Chase]

Jim K mentioned using a chisel to do the mortise. My comments about getting a even bottom relate to using a chisel for the mortise and not using a router plane.

Then I commented that a router plane makes it easier to get a consistent flat bottom - because that's what a router plane does.

Then, I went on to comment that I find it easier to use a router plane with a screw depth adjustment.

Hope that's clear.

Mike

OK, so it appears that we're all in agreement that any of the planes the OP asked about can achieve an equally accurate hinge mortise, as they all have depth stops (optional in the case of the small one). Cross that off as a deciding factor...

[Jim Koepke]

The whole business about scribing and chiseling is a canard

Should I shoot a video next time I mount a hinge?

With a sharp chisel and care it isn't difficult to get an even surface to a fixed depth. I do not think it really takes a lot of skill, after all I can do it. :eek:

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Should I shoot a video next time I mount a hinge?

With a sharp chisel and care it isn't difficult to get an even surface to a fixed depth. I do not think it really takes a lot of skill, after all I can do it. :eek:

jtk

Yeah, I should have been more careful with my wording. What I meant to say was that lack of a depth adjuster would not cause you to resort to chiseling in circumstances where you might otherwise use a router plane.

Sorry about that.

[Jim Koepke]

Yeah, I should have been more careful with my wording. What I meant to say was that lack of a depth adjuster would not cause you to resort to chiseling in circumstances where you might otherwise use a router plane.

Sorry about that.

No problem.

I use a router without a depth stop for such work. My method may be madness, but it works. I set up all the piece to be cut the same and work on all of them between each adjustment. If an error is made a previously cut piece can be used to check depth.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

Just an added comment. When I do a hinge mortise with a chisel, I use a wheel marking gauge (Glen-Drake) to mark the depth. If you don't touch the marking gauge, you can use the marking gauge to check the depth and make sure the bottom is an equal depth all over. Works just like a double square set to the depth.

Mike

[Tony Wilkins]

Should I shoot a video next time I mount a hinge?

With a sharp chisel and care it isn't difficult to get an even surface to a fixed depth. I do not think it really takes a lot of skill, after all I can do it. :eek:

jtk

I would! Haven't found a good variety of videos showing how to inset hinges.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I would! Haven't found a good variety of videos showing how to inset hinges.

yes.... yes you should!

I usually use this

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/butt-mortise-plane

sadly, I do not yet own a router plane :(

I sometimes do not get a nice flat surface when I use a chisel.

[Mike Henderson]

yes.... yes you should!

I usually use this

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/butt-mortise-plane

sadly, I do not yet own a router plane :(

I sometimes do not get a nice flat surface when I use a chisel.
I had a butt mortise plane but found that it was too big for the work I did. For small hinge mortises, a router plane works better.

I think those butt mortise planes were designed for people setting doors.

Mike

[Chris Hachet]

yes.... yes you should!

I usually use this

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/butt-mortise-plane

sadly, I do not yet own a router plane :(

I sometimes do not get a nice flat surface when I use a chisel.

Come test drive mine...it is an awesome tool, very handy to have.

[Zuye Zheng]

I usually tap the small router plane blade with a plane hammer. Also, did this https://paulsellers.com/2011/04/veritas-router-plane/ which drastically improved the clamping of the blade and prevents it from spinning.

[Derek Cohen]

I usually tap the small router plane blade with a plane hammer. Also, did this https://paulsellers.com/2011/04/veritas-router-plane/ which drastically improved the clamping of the blade and prevents it from spinning.

Zuye, I cannot access the link you provide. However, if one is looking for a permanent fix for the blade in the Small LV router plane, I came up with grinding a V at the rear of the blade ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ModifyingTheLVSmallRouterPlane_html_6239169e.jpg

Full article here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ModifyingTheLVSmallRouterPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zuye Zheng]

Same fix in link, not sure why not working but not missing much not in your photo.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Zuye

The link finally opened up .... same idea! Great minds and all that. Paul is correct that the flats do not to be that wide (as mine are).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Schtrumpf]

I would! Haven't found a good variety of videos showing how to inset hinges.

Here is Paul Sellers insetting hinges with a chisel (and shop made wheel gauge). You might want to practice one or two before doing the real thing. I did this before I had a router plane. With the router plane I do the same thing, but use the router to mark the depth and clean the chips out.

https://youtu.be/gcQATQLzDuw?list=PLDBA5856B05DA8648

[Tony Wilkins]

Here is Paul Sellers insetting hinges with a chisel (and shop made wheel gauge). You might want to practice one or two before doing the real thing. I did this before I had a router plane. With the router plane I do the same thing, but use the router to mark the depth and clean the chips out.

https://youtu.be/gcQATQLzDuw?list=PLDBA5856B05DA8648

Thanks for the link. He certainly makes it look doable. Watched CS use the small router in his Dutch chest DVD to see how it was done. Still on the fence but will probably give the chisel a go first -- as it doesn't require buying anymore tools.

[paul cottingham]

FWIW, i have a medium LV router plane, and the large one. I borrowed a small router plane for a while from a buddy. The small router plane is nowhere near as good a tool as the medium. The blade in the small one can twist, even with the shaft roughed up, and if you have large hands like me or any kinds if issue with them, it is too small to be useful, at least foe me.

the medium router has far mire utility, for my money.

YMMV, etc, etc, etc.